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Author Topic: Sandhill Crane  (Read 2515 times)

RSL

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2018, 10:14:13 am »

I'm not sure whether or not you're trying to pull my leg. If so, I'll play along with the joke. You claim you read the article, but evidently you skipped over the first paragraph:

"What is street photography? You donít need a dictionary to define it. Study the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Andre Kertesz, David Seymour (Chim), Robert Doisneau, Willy Ronis, Brassai, Walker Evans, Elliott Erwitt, Mark Riboud, Garry Winogrand, Helen Levitt and Robert Frank, who are only a few of the masters of street, and youíll have a much better appreciation for what street photography is than words can give you."

Study the work of these people before you go on. That'll help you get your head out of your fixation on static objects.
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faberryman

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2018, 10:52:18 am »

I'm not sure whether or not you're trying to pull my leg. If so, I'll play along with the joke. You claim you read the article, but evidently you skipped over the first paragraph:

"What is street photography? You don’t need a dictionary to define it. Study the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Andre Kertesz, David Seymour (Chim), Robert Doisneau, Willy Ronis, Brassai, Walker Evans, Elliott Erwitt, Mark Riboud, Garry Winogrand, Helen Levitt and Robert Frank, who are only a few of the masters of street, and you’ll have a much better appreciation for what street photography is than words can give you."

Study the work of these people before you go on. That'll help you get your head out of your fixation on static objects.
Trust me; I have studied them. Based on that I have a good idea of what street photography is. The problem is that it often doesn't coincide with your pronouncements. So I was looking for something more objective than just what you or I may think about a particular image. After all, you are advocating deleting the street forum altogether because some (most?) of the images don't qualify in your mind. Others, including me, disagree both with your judgment and your approach.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 11:46:20 am by faberryman »
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RSL

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2018, 12:34:03 pm »

It's okay, Fab. You can believe that if it's street it has to have a street in it. Join the crowd. If you've studied the references I listed you should know better, but what the hey. There IS no definition in words, any more than there's a definition for landscape in words. It's what you make of it. But the greater photographic world (i.e., the world outside LuLa's Street Showcase) understands and embraces the textually imprecise, but very real genre of street photography.
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faberryman

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2018, 12:41:14 pm »

It's okay, Fab. You can believe that if it's street it has to have a street in it. Join the crowd. If you've studied the references I listed you should know better, but what the hey.
Please point out where I said I thought it has to have street in it to be street. Devoid of reason, you are now just making stuff up.
Quote
There IS no definition in words, any more than there's a definition for landscape in words. It's what you make of it. But the greater photographic world (i.e., the world outside LuLa's Street Showcase) understands and embraces the textually imprecise, but very real genre of street photography.
That's all very convenient.
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RSL

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2018, 12:54:28 pm »

Best go back to your static subjects, Fab. They won't run away, and you don't have to be afraid they'll chase you.
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faberryman

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2018, 01:44:03 pm »

Best go back to your static subjects, Fab. They won't run away, and you don't have to be afraid they'll chase you.
You are a real piece of work.
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Arlen

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2018, 08:19:06 pm »

Very nice image, Russ, wherever it might be posted.

How about the Landscape & Nature Photography forum? That seems to be where a lot of animals-in-nature photos are being posted, and where I've been putting mine. (I know that landscapes have been redirected to Landscape Showcase, but if not nature/animal/plant images, what else is supposed to go in the old forum?)
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2018, 11:29:31 am »

Absolutely. None of those buildings or pavements or walls are posing. I don't see a single human in any of the pictures on your web. Maybe you could post a couple here on LuLa.

You definition is an absolute joke Russ. Then you hide behind vague statements like you need to look at the masters such as Robert Frank and Bresson. Bresson who shot tons of stuff you would call press or photojournalism or even the derogatory travel atmospherics. Look at Bressons images from South East Asia, perhaps you will understand it all better after that.

Or have another look at Robert Franks marvelous book you refer to as part of your definition. Approx. 100 images I would guess and 15% of them have no people in them at all. I guess by definition street photography is then only 85% people? In fact Russ there is a photo in The Americans, of a roadside memorial, no people in the photo. I posted a picture of a roadside memorial and you had a lot to say. Now I donít pretend my quality is like Franks but to be blunt you have some way to go yourself. I think The Americans is an incredible book. I look at it often. I think Russ that you havenít absorbed what street is all about at all if that book is part of your definition.

After looking at how few people post here I have decided I will in fact post again. There are people posting on Lula whoís work I admire and who I would like to engage with. I would appreciate you winding your neck in a little. I am not interested in your definition of street and as far as I understand it. I regard it as misinformed and largely out of date. I like your passion and I like your enthusiasm, donít get me wrong. If we met we might even get along, most likely we would. However after looking at your references regarding street I believe you are incorrect. Try to understand that if someone disagrees with you it might not be because they are wrong or ignorant. It could be they have different life experiences and see things from a different point of view.

As to my definition of street I would ask you to look at The Americans again and at the Decisive moment. See if perhaps you can get a little more from it than what you currently exhibit as your understanding.
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RSL

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2018, 12:25:28 pm »

Hi Martin,

You seem to be under the impression that if a photographer shoots street, thatís all he shoots. Never ceases to amuse me when I see a comment like yours regarding Frank or HCB. That kind of thing tells me you havenít read my https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography/, where, among other things I make the point that HCBís photojournalism usually wasnít street.

The real joke is the photographer who shoots landscape and structures, reads about street photography and looks at the work of HCB and his followers, but is too wimpy to go out on the street with a camera and shoot people, yet is convinced he knows all about street photography. Sound like anybody posting here on LuLa?

Frank, by the way, did all sorts of things. ďPull My DaisyĒ comes to mind. Itís not that The Americans is street. Some of it isnít. The reason The Americans made such a splash was this (from my essay, ďWhatís Photography For,Ē which you can find at http://www.russ-lewis.com/essays/WhatisPhotographyFor.html.)

ďAnother revolution took place in photography in 1959, when Robert Frank's book: The Americans was published in the United States. I remember the reaction of the photographic community when that book came out. Popular Photography, which in those days actually dealt with photography rather than with equipment, panned the book. The problem was that The Americans dealt with us as we actually were in the fifties Ė showing "sanitation approved" motels and drugstore diners Ė rather than with the purified illusions presented by Norman Rockwell's paintings and by photographers such as Alfred Eisenstadt who followed Rockwell's lead. It was a giant flap, but Frank's book became a classic and changed the whole course of street photography.Ē

You see, I remember, because I was there.

So youíve decided to overlook my bad influence on you and post again? Well, golly, Iím glad. But what have you posted other than this kind of absolute joke? Have you ever posted a picture on LuLa. Iím pretty sure you have, but offhand I canít find one. Get out there and make pictures of buildings or pavements or walls. Theyíre out there, posing, just waiting for you.

If you really want to criticize street photography, first letís see some of your own street photography. If you havenít tried it you havenít a clue. Itís not easy, like landscape.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2018, 12:52:45 pm »

Here you go
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RSL

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2018, 12:54:24 pm »

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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2018, 12:55:09 pm »

And here. All posted before I think
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2018, 12:56:36 pm »

Another.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2018, 12:59:55 pm »

I will stop because soon we will get into a debate about what is street again and I have no further desire to argue with you. I think you are wrong. You think you are right. Suck it up buttercup.
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faberryman

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2018, 01:06:47 pm »

I will stop because soon we will get into a debate about what is street again and I have no further desire to argue with you. I think you are wrong. You think you are right. Suck it up buttercup.
Best post those in Street Showcase. No one will see them buried in a bird post. Someone might even advocate shutting down the Landscape Showcase as a result.
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Ivo_B

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2018, 02:26:25 pm »

Another.

Please start a separate topic with these splendid images, Martin! They are great!
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Dave (Isle of Skye)

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2018, 02:30:06 pm »

Appears that way, Jeremy. Most of the stuff posted in Street Showcase under "On the Streets: an open image sharing thread" should have gone into "User Critiques." There's a bunch of other stuff in Street Showcase that doesn't really belong there. Looks as if it's now Katy bar the door for any "showcase" supposedly devoted to a specific genre. I'm afraid Street Showcase is the reason, and I'm afraid it's my fault because I pushed for a Street Showcase. I've had roughly 65 years exposure to the street genre, and I imagined other serious photographers knew the genre well enough to understand what it's meant to be. Just shows how wrong one can be. I'd love to see Street Showcase disappear so people can dump their pictures with streets in them into User Critiques. I'm afraid Street Showcase is exacerbating the confusion about the street photography genre that seems to grow with time.

Russ, I find myself agreeing with you 100%, as I think both the new Showcase subsections for both Street and Landscape, seem to have had an unforeseen and detrimental effect on this forum and the number of people who visit and view the images within it. For the Landscape images by being spread too thinly between the two separate landscape subsections of 'Landscape and Nature Photography' and the 'Landscape Showcase', and the Street Showcase subsection, which seems to have become more of an ongoing argument about what 'Street' is and is not and who should decide etc., rather than a showcase of images.

Maybe the whole forum is due for a major re-think, because if I was to throw in a few more of my thoughts on its layout, then why on what is supposed to be a photographic forum, do we have the sections where user can show their work, placed near to the bottom of the first page and below the 'fold' or beyond the first screen?

Dave
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 02:38:38 pm by Dave (Isle of Skye) »
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RSL

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2018, 02:42:35 pm »

I will stop because soon we will get into a debate about what is street again and I have no further desire to argue with you. I think you are wrong. You think you are right. Suck it up buttercup.

I like this one, Martin. Reminds me of Martin Munkakci's "Three Boys at Lake Tanganyika." Believe me, that's a real compliment. That was the picture that got Cartier-Bresson started on real street photography.

To the picture of the kid in the fountain, I'd reply with this one. Kids are easy. They won't chase you. If you're really going to try to do street you've gotta get down and dirty.

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RSL

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2018, 02:53:38 pm »

Russ, I find myself agreeing with you 100%, as I think both the new Showcase subsections for both Street and Landscape, seem to have had an unforeseen and detrimental effect on this forum and the number of people who visit and view the images within it. For the Landscape images by being spread too thinly between the two separate landscape subsections of 'Landscape and Nature Photography' and the 'Landscape Showcase', and the Street Showcase subsection, which seems to have become more of an ongoing argument about what 'Street' is and is not and who should decide etc., rather than a showcase of images.

Maybe the whole forum is due for a major re-think, because if I was to throw in a few more of my thoughts on its layout, then why on what is supposed to be a photographic forum, do we have the sections where user can show their work, placed near to the bottom of the first page and below the 'fold' or beyond the first screen?

Dave

Here's a hand for a shake, Dave. I agree that LuLa would improve very much if we at least got rid of Street Showcase. Landscape Showcase did pretty well, going along its normal, boring way. But then Hans, who's a very competent landscaper, had to go and put a picture he knew wasn't street into the middle of Street Showcase, just to liven things up, and I had to respond. At least I responded with a bird that's part of a landscape. I think it's probably time to drop any attempt to categorize genres on LuLa.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Sandhill Crane
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2018, 03:13:24 pm »

I have deleted some posts from this thread and it is now locked.

Jeremy
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