Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Metallic

[rxchaos]

What media type does one use for Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Metallic on Epson printers (p800 & p10000). I assume Premium Luster Photo Paper (260). I also assume one uses PhotoBlack ink

And, icc profiles for this paper don't seem to be available on Hahnemuhle's website. 

Thanks.

[JRSmit]

What media type does one use for Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Metallic on Epson printers (p800 & p10000). I assume Premium Luster Photo Paper (260). I also assume one uses PhotoBlack ink

And, icc profiles for this paper don't seem to be available on Hahnemuhle's website. 

Thanks.

Plpo260 and indeed photoblacck.
You need a profile though, ask hahnemuhle for a profile.

[I.T. Supplies]

You can get the ICC profile from Hahnemuhle's site here (https://www.hahnemuehle.com/en/digital-fineart/icc-profile/download-center.html)
Choose the brand of the printer, the model and it's under the "Glossy FineArt" Paper Group.

And yes, you would use the Photo Black on both printers for this paper.

IT Supplies

[Mark D Segal]

Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Metallic

[John Caldwell]

Is it a nice paper? It’s 340 weight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mark D Segal]

Is it a nice paper? It’s 340 weight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a matter of personal taste. My views are reported in my review linked just above.

[Ernst Dinkla]

You can get the ICC profile from Hahnemuhle's site here (https://www.hahnemuehle.com/en/digital-fineart/icc-profile/download-center.html)
Choose the brand of the printer, the model and it's under the "Glossy FineArt" Paper Group.


IT Supplies

Not yet for the HP Z3200 though.  Users have asked for a profile I was told by a HM representative so it might come.   I have to see what is possible with the Z3200 spectrometer, could be that its wider target patch size is helping here, normally metallic is asking for profiling specialists.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Mark D Segal]

Not yet for the HP Z3200 though.  Users have asked for a profile I was told by a HM representative so it might come.   I have to see what is possible with the Z3200 spectrometer, could be that its wider target patch size is helping here, normally metallic is asking for profiling specialists.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Hi Ernst,

I have quite a substantive discussion of profiling this paper here: Hahn Metallic Rag Review). To be frank, I wasn't that thrilled with the performance of the Hahn profile in my SC-P5000 printer, but my custom profile turned out to perform quite well, just using i1Profiler with an i1Pro2 in the usual way. Not clear whether that makes me a "specialist", but just to say anyone who knows how to use this kit can create a decent profile for this paper. The reason for the poor dE outcome for White is of course that the paper is far from "White" - there is none! Normally I obtain considerably lower dE outcomes from my custom profiles for standard papers, but this is a specialty paper having a more limited gamut compared with many other PK-using papers, and that affects the dE results. The custom profile performed really very well on the grayscale testing. All this is discussed in the review.

[Scho]

I recently obtained a roll of the HPR Metallic to use in my Epson P800.  Very nice for some images- particularly B&W.  Using ImagePrint Black I just made a test print of a landscape using HPR Metallic, printed as a triptych in ImagePrint (using the ImagePrint gray profile for this paper).  Snap of the finished triptych taken with an iPhone below.  The snapshot does not capture the shimmering metallic surface of the print, but it does work well with this image.

[Mark D Segal]

Looks nice! Good use of this paper.

[stockjock]

I bought a sample roll of the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Metallic.  I thought I would try to profile it using the i1Studio (which appears to be the successor to the ColorMunki) since Hahnemuhle doesn't have profiles for the iPF8400.  So far no luck.  Something about the paper seems to cause the i1Studio software to go into an infinite loop after it reads the first set of patches.  Has anyone encountered this problem before?  Other than a metallic/opalescent sheen and some minor head strike marks in the bottom margin the patches look fairly similar to others I have generated in the past.  The i1Studio has worked well for me in the past so this is dissapointing.  Anybody have any advice?

[I.T. Supplies]

Our color specialist had good success making profiles on metallic paper with X-Rite ISIS 2 and Barbieri.  They found out that the handheld devices don't build profiles properly for metallic media.

If someone wants to try making a custom profile on metallic paper, we can see how it goes at no charge.  We do have the ISIS 2 automatic scanner, so the 1914 patches between 2 targets works well for most customers and should provide a decent profile for metallic media.

IT Supplies

[Mark D Segal]

...............  They found out that the handheld devices don't build profiles properly for metallic media.

......................

IT Supplies

The profile I built for it with an i1Pro 2 is very good. I was also able to successfully profile the Moab metallic media. So depends on what you mean by "properly", but I don't buy their contention. Probably depends on the device, the settings, the target.......

[mearussi]

FYI, for those who wish to experiment with this, the 24" x 16' sample roll is about 1/2 the price per sq ft than the full size rolls or  cut sheets.

[Mark D Segal]

They now also have the usual sheet sizes available - may be more practical for those testing it.

[stockjock]

I bought a sample roll of the Photorag Metallic.  It isn't possible to profile this with the i1Studio or I presume the Colormunki either.  Not a big deal.  But I think Mark's review really understated just how unique this paper is.  It has a VERY distinctive character.  It is much more silver than the other metallic's I've tried and less opalescent.  Personally, I don't think I would ever have a project I would use it for but then I'm not a bit B&W guy which is where I think the paper might shine.  On the positive side, I don't think I've ever used a gloss paper with less bronzing or gloss differential.  And it has a very heavy satisfying feel.  But definitely a specialty paper in my view.

[Mark D Segal]

...............But I think Mark's review really understated just how unique this paper is.  It has a VERY distinctive character.  .............

I did devote the first four paragraphs of the article and Figure 1 (showing tone and texture) trying to make this very point, which I hoped would have sufficed; sorry in your case it didn't. I agree with you that it is a specialty paper to be used with photos for which it works well; it's really very nice for neutral and toned monochrome prints, but I was pleasantly surprised to see how well it could also be used with various flavours of colour photos too. It wouldn't be my every day standard printing paper, but I'll have it on hand for use where I think it fits particularly well.

[Rand47]

Anecdote alert:

I bought some of this paper.  It has a unique surface, IMO.  Very different from any other metallic papers that I’m aware of.

This stuff is HARD to soft-proof, IMO.  When I tic the “Simulate Paper and Ink” box, my first reaction is “Whoa!  That’s some serious weirdness going on there!”  (How’s that as a counterpoint to Mark’s excellent data?  :-) )  The drop in contrast, saturation, luminance etc., is remarkable (Epson SC P5000).

I’m still testing, and the jury is out.  Some of my clients might really like this stuff if I can get a handle on it.  Well, I “can” get a handle on it, but it’s a lot of work.

Rand

[Mark D Segal]

Anecdote alert:

I bought some of this paper.  It has a unique surface, IMO.  Very different from any other metallic papers that I’m aware of.

This stuff is HARD to soft-proof, IMO.  When I tic the “Simulate Paper and Ink” box, my first reaction is “Whoa!  That’s some serious weirdness going on there!”  (How’s that as a counterpoint to Mark’s excellent data?  :-) )  The drop in contrast, saturation, luminance etc., is remarkable (Epson SC P5000).

I’m still testing, and the jury is out.  Some of my clients might really like this stuff if I can get a handle on it.  Well, I “can” get a handle on it, but it’s a lot of work.

Rand

Rand: just for clarity - when you speak of "the drop in contrast, saturation, luminance etc.", what state is the "drop" from? No softproofing at all, or softproofing of this paper compared with another paper?

I do my softproofing and printing from Lr most of the time, as I did when I prepared the analyses of this paper and I agree with you that upon pressing "S", the change is quite remarkable - but that's exactly what I expected, because there is no "paper white" to speak of in this case. It's "paper grey" - very grey. And the reflectance is unusual for a PK paper, because the surface of the paper is much less reflective than we would find from a normal luster paper even though both use PK inks. I would be much more surprised if there were no surprise from the softproof.

Now, all that said, there would appear to be some limitation of what a softproof can tell us, especially when dealing with papers having characteristics that perhaps can't be fully replicated by the numbers and equations used in a softproofing exercise. So some disconnect between the softproof and the print should be expected, but I found the guidance from the softproof is still useful. One needs to make a couple of test prints of a decent printer evaluation target, compare the outcomes with the softproof and decide on what side to err when using the softproof as guidance for the print. I found that the softproof (with my custom profile) exaggerates the apparent toning down of luminance and saturation, such that the print which emerges is more lively than expected from the softproof. Knowing that, one exercises more conservatism on the adjustments one makes under softproof. It isn't ideal, but with specialty products like this experience indicates that one shouldn't expect 100% coherence between softproof and print.

[John Caldwell]

I have never found "simulate paper white" useful for any metallic. Turing that of generally allows a good understanding of what the metallic print will look like, in my experience.

Anecdote alert:

I bought some of this paper.  It has a unique surface, IMO.  Very different from any other metallic papers that I’m aware of.

This stuff is HARD to soft-proof, IMO.  When I tic the “Simulate Paper and Ink” box, my first reaction is “Whoa!  That’s some serious weirdness going on there!”  (How’s that as a counterpoint to Mark’s excellent data?  :-) )  The drop in contrast, saturation, luminance etc., is remarkable (Epson SC P5000).

I’m still testing, and the jury is out.  Some of my clients might really like this stuff if I can get a handle on it.  Well, I “can” get a handle on it, but it’s a lot of work.

Rand