Topaz AI Clear

[stockjock]

I am surprised Topaz's AI Clear tool hasn't gotten more commentary after Rad Drew's recent article on LuLa.  https://luminous-landscape.com/an-artificial-intelligence-hat-trick-from-topaz-labs/  I just gave the fully functional demo a try and I was really impressed with the difference it made on a few images that I thought were already fully processed and pretty good.  I wouldn't describe it as being purely a noise reduction tool.  The name, "AI Clear" is much more descriptive of what it does.  In the images I've tried it on the improvement in sharpness and a feeling of clarity is much more dramatic than the noise reduction.  It doesn't work well with all images but it can make a surprisingly big difference in how sharp and yes, clear, the images are in the pictures it does work well with.

Anybody else have any comments about the software or tips or tricks they have discovered using it?  My biggest complaint is how poorly the file naming works when you are using it as a plugin with Lightroom and doing a File Save As.  It would be helpful if it appended AI Clear to the file name to distinguish it from the source file.

[Mark D Segal]

Several questions: (1) have you noticed whether it reduces noise, sharpens images and adds clarity much better than you can obtain from LR's own tool set for doing these things? (2) Does it need to render the raw file into a TIFF/PSD or does it work on the raw image? (3) If it does need to render the image, how much better is it in Photoshop than using other existing and highly effective plugins such as Photokit Sharpener for sharpening, and Neat Image for noise mitigation, or their counterparts in the Nik Collection which many of us obtained free of charge when Google owned it.

[stockjock]

Several questions: (1) have you noticed whether it reduces noise, sharpens images and adds clarity much better than you can obtain from LR's own tool set for doing these things? (2) Does it need to render the raw file into a TIFF/PSD or does it work on the raw image? (3) If it does need to render the image, how much better is it in Photoshop than using other existing and highly effective plugins such as Photokit Sharpener for sharpening, and Neat Image for noise mitigation, or their counterparts in the Nik Collection which many of us obtained free of charge when Google owned it.

1) The images I have tried it on so far were photos from either the DJI Phantom 4 Advanced or Mavic Pro drones that had already been fully processed in Lightroom, and in some cases Aurora or Luminar.  I used those images because the small sensor size does make them prone to noise and the article on LuLa touted AI Clear as being effective for noise which is definitely reduced after running them through AI Clear.  What surprised me was the boost in sharpness and "clearness" in a very natural and effective way for most of the images.  The images were sharpened in Lightroom already.  Some areas with foliage that were already pretty mushy didn't benefit and might have gotten worse in AI Clear but a lot of other features where much better.

2) You have a number of choices about how the file is exported from Lightroom to AI Clear but I used TIFF.  I haven't tried working on the raw files directly so I have no idea how it handles that.

3) Although I have Nik, and Topaz Infocus and have used Photokit in the distant past I generally haven't found those plugins to be worth the extra processing step compared to Lightroom and I haven't tried any direct comparisons.  I no longer use Photoshop for anything other than specialty things like content aware fill etc. so I can't address anything regarding AI Clear vs Photoshop or plugins in Photoshop.

I know you are generally quite skeptical about these add on programs versus what I agree are the already excellent capabilities in LR/PS but the 30 day demo of Topaz AI Clear is fully functional and pretty straightforward.  I would be interested in your thoughts after you gave it a try.  After all, I created this post not to tout the benefits of AI Clear but to prompt a conversation with other people that had given it a try.

[Mark D Segal]

No, I'm not skeptical about add-on programs. I'm just interested in hearing about their value-added relative to what we already have. I do use several plugins when I find it appropriate. I may try this one.

[Rhossydd]

Out of curiosity I've downloaded the trial and put a few images through it.

(1) have you noticed whether it reduces noise, sharpens images and adds clarity much better than you can obtain from LR's own tool set for doing these things?

Only to a tiny small degree.

(2) Does it need to render the raw file into a TIFF/PSD or does it work on the raw image?

It will load a raw file, but then saves it out as a rendered bitmap. Not sure if any other tools in the suite offer a full set of tonal controls, but life's too short to waste on that. Initial trials from a raw file added some nasty artifacts.

(3) If it does need to render the image, how much better is it in Photoshop than using other existing and highly effective plugins such as Photokit Sharpener for sharpening, and Neat Image for noise mitigation, or their counterparts in the Nik Collection which many of us obtained free of charge when Google owned it.

I don't think so. I think running a LR/ACR rendered image through something like Neat Image could give a better result.

Overall it's not something I can see any immediate benefit from using myself. Either LR/ACR or CO will deliver comparable output with a far slicker workflow and versatility. If you use a stand alone raw converter and work with rendered files and don't already have decent noise reduction software it might be a useful tool.
Not convinced.

[Mark D Segal]

Thanks for that feedback. Appreciated. I also use Neat Image - on film scans or transparent media digitized with a camera. It offers lots of control and very good results.

[stockjock]

I am posting a section of the first image I tried Topaz AI Clear on versus an image I processed in Lightroom with higher than my normal sharpening and noise reduction to best approximate the Topaz AI Clear results.  To my eye the AI Clear image is better but not as definitively once I boosted the sharpening in LR beyond what I normally do.  I am still undecided if the results merit buying AI Clear.

[Zen8]

I got it about a month ago. I also use DXO PL for NR but the exports back to LR are painfully slow when you apply Prime. Export to Disk is just as slow but at least you can do something else.

Imports and exports are fast but computer can't do anything while AI Clear does it's thing. I still don't use either as much as I thought I would. A decent AI NR product but I sure wouldn't use it for mass (lots of flies) edits.                   

[Zen8]

I spent a lot of time learning how to use LR's sharpening/NR pallet. Actually during my lurking days at this site I learned about the Detail Slider in the Detail Tab from Mr Schewe. 0-50 = halo suppression. 50-100 gets into deconvolution but you lose halo suppression. I have it set up as part of my import process. 

There are competitors that are taking on LR with AI NR. Personally I think if LR offered two solutions it would rock. Keep the current set up which works great for mass edits. Even if slower offer an AI NR option to avoid 3rd party NR solutions for hobby, etc shots. I'd go for that.     

[Rhossydd]

To my eye the AI Clear image is better

Whereas I'm seeing unacceptable extra, high saturation colour, artifacts and haloing. The higher saturation looks wrong too, but that may be due to other issues than just processing with AIC.

Which matches my initial tests here. Not for me, I like my results natural looking.

[Garnick]

I am posting a section of the first image I tried Topaz AI Clear on versus an image I processed in Lightroom with higher than my normal sharpening and noise reduction to best approximate the Topaz AI Clear results.  To my eye the AI Clear image is better but not as definitively once I boosted the sharpening in LR beyond what I normally do.  I am still undecided if the results merit buying AI Clear.

My first impression of both examples when I opened them on my NEC 271W display is that some other sort of enhancement had been applied as well, perhaps a paining effect.  My second impression was the rather obvious difference between the LR and the AI Clear files.  The AI Clear file has a very obvious amount of noise which is not showing in the LR example.  You may not see this if you are working on a laptop or a rather small display of some sort, but for me it was not at all difficult to determine the difference.

I totally agree with this statement from Rhossydd as well: "Whereas I'm seeing unacceptable extra, high saturation colour, artifacts and haloing. The higher saturation looks wrong too, but that may be due to other issues than just processing with AIC".

Gary
 

[DP]

Actually during my lurking days at this site I learned about the Detail Slider in the Detail Tab from Mr Schewe. 0-50 = halo suppression. 50-100 gets into deconvolution but you lose halo suppression.

you certainly learn wrong - better learn from Adobe employees

Eric Chan : ( http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=45038.msg378027#msg378027 ) @ July 24, 2010

the sharpening in CR 6 / LR 3 is a continuous blend of methods (with Detail slider being the one used to "tween" between the methods, and the Amount, Radius, & Masking used to control the parameters fed into the methods). As you ramp up the Detail slider to higher values, the deconvolution-based method gets more weight. If you're interested in only the deconv method then just set Detail to 100

[Zen8]

Thanks for the link. I'm going to have to read it.

[Zen8]

you certainly learn wrong - better learn from Adobe employees

Eric Chan : ( http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=45038.msg378027#msg378027 ) @ July 24, 2010

the sharpening in CR 6 / LR 3 is a continuous blend of methods (with Detail slider being the one used to "tween" between the methods, and the Amount, Radius, & Masking used to control the parameters fed into the methods). As you ramp up the Detail slider to higher values, the deconvolution-based method gets more weight. If you're interested in only the deconv method then just set Detail to 100

Funny I started to read this and got to this point. I see the last post was in 2014. What I'm interested in how the ISO effects the Detail Slider. I just lower it for high ISO but I don't know why. It just seems like the right thing to do. I'll keep reading as don't want to go off topic here. I use a Jeffrey Friedl Plugin - Bulk Develop. It does not have the Detail adjustment and sent him a few requests to add it.         

[stockjock]

My first impression of both examples when I opened them on my NEC 271W display is that some other sort of enhancement had been applied as well, perhaps a paining effect.  My second impression was the rather obvious difference between the LR and the AI Clear files.  The AI Clear file has a very obvious amount of noise which is not showing in the LR example.  You may not see this if you are working on a laptop or a rather small display of some sort, but for me it was not at all difficult to determine the difference.

I totally agree with this statement from Rhossydd as well: "Whereas I'm seeing unacceptable extra, high saturation colour, artifacts and haloing. The higher saturation looks wrong too, but that may be due to other issues than just processing with AIC".

Gary

First, I am looking at the images on a color corrected 32" monitor.  These are from a heavily post processed HDR Panorama and I would agree I went a little overboard on the saturation of the foliage.  Here is the middle image the HDR was based on for those of you that prefer a natural look.  No post processing applied LOL.

[faberryman]

You have plenty of control for sharpening/noise reduction in Lightroom. I would make the effort to learn the ins and outs of what you have before investing in a plug-in solution.

[Garnick]

First, I am looking at the images on a color corrected 32" monitor.  These are from a heavily post processed HDR Panorama and I would agree I went a little overboard on the saturation of the foliage.  Here is the middle image the HDR was based on for those of you that prefer a natural look.  No post processing applied LOL.

Again, on my calibrated display I am seeing an effect that very much resembles a painting effect of some sort.  Also, in my opinion both images have been sharpened far beyond what would normally be acceptable, unless you have done so strictly for effect.  Pushing the sharpness beyond what one would normally do can also mimic a painterly effect with some images.  These are crisp, and as mentioned previously, the AI Clear sample is exhibiting much more noise than the LR example.  You also have halos on the mountains and tress against the sky, another obvious sign of over sharpening.

Gary 

[Mark D Segal]

I am posting a section of the first image I tried Topaz AI Clear on versus an image I processed in Lightroom with higher than my normal sharpening and noise reduction to best approximate the Topaz AI Clear results.  To my eye the AI Clear image is better but not as definitively once I boosted the sharpening in LR beyond what I normally do.  I am still undecided if the results merit buying AI Clear.

Much of this is a matter of taste, but to my taste, speaking for myself only, both of them are similar and both of them look artificial - over-sharpened and over-saturated.

[Mark D Segal]

You have plenty of control for sharpening/noise reduction in Lightroom. I would make the effort to learn the ins and outs of what you have before investing in a plug-in solution.

Yes, of course you are right about that; but I hasten to add there are some plugins that provide more refined control and strength than do the corresponding tools in Lr, and those come in handy when image requirements exceed what Lr can do; I have in mind, for example, Photokit Sharpener and Neat Image which are particularly advantageous for film scanning and the camera digitization of film images.

[Zen8]

I think LR does a great job. AI type NR like Prime goes a little further. I think LR's purpose is speed and advanced LR slows things down. Export time doubles using DXO and Prime for both exports to LR or Disk.

That being said besides the reasons from people disliking LR due to subscription or just looking for other options a key one is other NR options. Adobe may want to consider an AI option in an addition to the current Detail window some day. Just my opinion of course. 

By the way I don't use DXO for Prime or AI Clear anywhere near as much as I thought I would for my hobby stuff. I probably would if it was part of LR.