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Author Topic: Best 44" printer for fine art  (Read 2914 times)

MichaelEzra

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Best 44" printer for fine art
« on: September 22, 2018, 05:28:47 PM »

I am looking for the best 44" printer for fine art printing in color and black and white.
I am satisfied with the printing quality of Epson 7800, however head clogging is just an ink drain.

I am looking at Epson SureColor P8000, having read that it should not clog.
I could not find any rumors on next Epson printers.
Is there anything known on a horizon?

Is HP or Canon worth considering instead?

My priorities:
1. Printing quality
2. Archival Ink properties
3. Printer Efficiency (I am printing in ad-hock small batches, need to avoid clogging)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 05:35:25 PM by MichaelEzra »
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2018, 05:59:45 PM »

See the deal on the HPZ3200 at Adorama. The HP inkset has twice the fade resistance of either Epson or Canon. Also the print heads are very long lasting and cheap compared to either Canon or Epson.

For clog resistance, HP has to be King. In 12 years, I've rarely had a clog. In fact I never check for clogs, like you do daily with Epsons. My Z3100 is ready to go every day. I've gone as long as 3 weeks without printing, and it's been ready to go without problems.

It's not as fast as the new Canon or Epson, but speed has not been of concern to me. I print bidirectional on canvas, art paper and photo paper, and quality is excellent.

Sheet paper handling is not great, and can be frustrating though.

Hope this helps!

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gkroeger

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2018, 06:04:56 PM »

Michael:

I can't comment on others... but I went from an Epson 7800 to an Epson SC P7000. Like you, I print in small, sporadic batches. I have had far less clogging. Not that the 7800 was terrible, but it was common for nozzle checks to show problems and often a cleaning cycle was needed to fix the issue.

With the P7000, during weeks when I am not printing, I tend to print one nozzle check. Since February, only twice have the nozzle checks not been perfect, and in both cases the nozzle check itself fixed the problem... i.e. a second nozzle check was fine.  Printing speed is improved and print quality is slightly, but noticeably, better. YMMV.

Glenn
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2018, 06:11:41 PM »

Quote
I am looking for the best 44" printer for fine art printing in color and black and white.... I am looking at Epson SureColor P8000 .... My priorities: 1. Printing quality

The Epson P9000 is a higher-print-quality device than the P8000; it adds additional ink colors (green and orange) for expanded gamut.

Quote
My priorities: ... 2. Archival Ink properties, 3. Printer Efficiency (I am printing in ad-hock small batches, need to avoid clogging)

But on these two points the Z3200 would likely do better, maybe much better. The question with the HP is do you want to buy a printer whose apparent replacement (the Z9+) has already been introduced? Conversely, would you want to buy its Z9+ replacement before anyone has tested it or its inkset? There is a whole thread on this (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126829.0) that you ought to read.
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2018, 06:50:23 PM »

Also, remember the z3200 comes with excellent profiling built in. And the 12-color ink set is proven and well tested.

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MichaelEzra

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2018, 07:25:24 PM »

Thank you all for chiming in.

I am looking at the Vivera ink set. The largest cartridge is only 130ml at $84. Compared to K3 220ml for $84. Whats the thing here? I Expected 44" printer to use 300/700ml cartridges at lower cost per ml. Did I miss anything?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 09:35:59 AM by MichaelEzra »
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deanwork

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 07:36:25 PM »


A third of that Epson ink ends up in the waste tank. There  is NO wasted ink with the Z. None. You donít replace waste tanks as a consumable. Their ink collector can last a decade or more. Astonishing. You actually can put bigger Vivera ink carts from their other printers in them and switch out the chips. Ernst is doing that. I donít use my Zs for production printing because they are too slow for me. But for everything else, including my own work I use them. If I were going to buy a Z right now Iíd call H P and ask if you will be protected for the next five years with parts and labor.

Thank you all for chiming in.

I am looking at the Vivera inkset. The largest cartridge is only 130ml at $84. Compared to K3 220ml for $84. Whats the thing here? I Expected 44" printer to use 300/700ml cartridges at lower cost per ml. Did I miss anyhting?
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glyph

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2018, 08:02:41 PM »

Regardless of the ink cost per ML, you will find that HP is the lowest cost per square inch to run (of fine art quality printers), since it is so frugal with ink.
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2018, 09:10:41 PM »

Yep you can use the hp772, 300ml carts for Lt gray, yellow, both blacks, Lt magenta & Lt cyan. Just cut label holding cap with chip on. Replace cap with one from near empty HP 70 cart. Lose ability to monitor ink level in cart. You have to manually remove and check ink levels. HP772 carts available for $110-$140.

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MichaelEzra

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 09:52:34 PM »

Great info, thank you!

Lots of gear I loved and purchased seems to have the letter "Z" in the name; RZ, ZD, 645Z, etc. now this HP is also a Z:)

Any thoughts on print quality comparison of P9000 vs Z3200ps? Color Gamut / BW / Resolution / dot placement pattern.

Epson ABW works absolutely excellent on 7800, I suppose marginally better on P9000. Does HP have technology for toned BW prints?
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2018, 11:33:51 PM »

B&W printing is really good with the Z. It uses the two neural looking grays, and the two blacks on art papers. The gray inks are perfectly balanced already, no toning necessary like the Epson. If you want to add slight toning, just print in color mode, and adjust in PS to suit your taste. The pure B&W has no metamerism under differing lighting conditions.

One of the unique features of HP's printing, is using gray component removal and substituting the two grays to reduce metamerism. This also results in consistently neutral looking prints. Epson uses heavy application of Light magenta and Lt cyan in printing. If you have any clogged nozzles, the shift in color balance is immediately noticeable. That is also why Epsons use those two inks the most. The HP uses Lt gray the most.



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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2018, 11:41:41 PM »

On B&W printing, Also read John Dean's post in the next thread, about cheap price of Z3200!

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cgarnerhome

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2018, 11:45:17 PM »

I have never used the HP printers but have been using the P9000 for about a year.  I often print 40x60 and I'm very pleased with the quality.  I had the 9900 before the 9000.  The 9900 clogged frequently whereas the 9000 seldom clogs even after a month of being idle.  The reliability has been exceptional for both.

mearussi

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2018, 07:52:50 AM »

Great info, thank you!

Lots of gear I loved and purchased seems to have the letter "Z" in the name; RZ, ZD, 645Z, etc. now this HP is also a Z:)

Any thoughts on print quality comparison of P9000 vs Z3200ps? Color Gamut / BW / Resolution / dot placement pattern.

Epson ABW works absolutely excellent on 7800, I suppose marginally better on P9000. Does HP have technology for toned BW prints?
That's the only problem with the Z its gamut is less than the Epson and Canon.
Here's a good comparison article: http://www.on-sight.com/canon-x300-printer-review/
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MHMG

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2018, 08:26:31 AM »

That's the only problem with the Z its gamut is less than the Epson and Canon.
Here's a good comparison article: http://www.on-sight.com/canon-x300-printer-review/

Looks like Scott Martin used a 1728 patch color target to produce his color gamut comparisons in that report. From testing I've done with the Z3200PS in collaboration with Mark Linquist and John Dean over the past several months, we have all concluded that 1728 patch targets are merely the starting point for achieving optimal color reproduction on the the Z3200PS. Higher patch counts (4000+) bring out superior color and tone reproduction qualities and exceptionally smooth grayscale reproduction on the Z3200 that are subtle yet easily noticeable by discerning viewers. Hence, I'm honesty not sure how much emphasis one should place on color gamut volume plots in and of themselves. They describe the potential of a printer/ink/media combination to produce vivid colors, but they say nothing about the color and tone reproduction accuracy within that printable color gamut.

There's much more to subtle color and tone differentiation within a fine art print that simply doesn't get accounted for with gamut plots.  Moreover, unless one has an automated spectrophotometer like an Xrite iSis or the highly useful one directly built into the Z series printers, exploring the benefits of super high patch count color target profiling is not something I would ever been inclined to do ;)

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 08:33:46 AM by MHMG »
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2018, 08:57:09 AM »


They describe the potential of a printer/ink/media combination to produce vivid colors, but they say nothing about the color and tone reproduction accuracy within that printable color gamut.

There's much more to subtle color and tone differentiation within a fine art print that simply doesn't get accounted for with gamut plots.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

Which is also an aspect I would pay attention to in the Z9 output; replacing the LC LM inks with a finer 3pl droplet C M, may not deliver the subtle pastel colors the Z3x00's can make. Subtractive color mixing in the highlights is usually way better with transparent layers overall than by adding more white to less transparent dots, how tiny they are.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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MHMG

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2018, 09:22:47 AM »

Which is also an aspect I would pay attention to in the Z9 output; replacing the LC LM inks with a finer 3pl droplet C M, may not deliver the subtle pastel colors the Z3x00's can make. Subtractive color mixing in the highlights is usually way better with transparent layers overall than by adding more white to less transparent dots, how tiny they are.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

And if I understand correctly, the Light gray ink has also been eliminated in the Z9 following similar logic that the dual nozzle design and new screening algorithms successfully compensate for the eliminated light colorants.  HP has great color scientists and engineers, so I have no reason to be cynical about their new approach with the Z9 engineering, especially since I haven't seen any serious attempt at fine art output on the Z9 yet.

That said, "trust but verify" seems to be the logical approach for those of us who may wish to eventually transition from our Z3200 printers to the newer Z9.  For my personal work at this time, I'm very happy with my Z3200Ps. It's a fantastic, albeit quirky, fine art print making machine well suited to the needs of low volume printmakers like photographers and artists who tend only to print for themselves and/or a very select group of clients.  Nonetheless, I'm curious to put a Z9 through its paces in a head-to-head comparison against my z3200 on both image quality and print longevity merits. I just don't have the funding for this work at the moment, but it's high on my "to do" list.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

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JRSmit

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2018, 11:39:29 AM »

A third of that Epson ink ends up in the waste tank.
Ik have a 9000 and a 7000 now for almost 3 years. And print Dailymotion as it is my business. So far for each printer 1 maintenance tank swap after 2years of operation.
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Fine art photography: janrsmit.com
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Jan R. Smit

kers

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2018, 12:12:19 PM »

Ik have a 9000 and a 7000 now for almost 3 years. And print Dailymotion as it is my business. So far for each printer 1 maintenance tank swap after 2years of operation.

and about how much ink is that?
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Pieter Kers
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John Caldwell

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Re: Best 44" printer for fine art
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2018, 07:19:37 PM »

I recently chose the Canon Pro 4000 to replace our Epson 9900. My choice was based upon print quality, what I *hope* will be better clog resistance and lack of PK/MK switching; and the take-up spool option. I had a 24" Z3200 prior to the Epson 9900, and felt that the HP was very, very good, but quite slow.
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