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Author Topic: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom  (Read 2033 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2018, 04:39:13 pm »

Reading through this thread makes me think that users shouldn't have to trip through a minefield of obscure settings to get a photo that is supposed to come back into the application sitting beside its original version to just do so. Looks like functionality the engineers should probably re-evaluate. Useful discussion.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2018, 05:02:15 pm »

Reading through this thread makes me think that users shouldn't have to trip through a minefield of obscure settings to get a photo that is supposed to come back into the application sitting beside its original version to just do so. Looks like functionality the engineers should probably re-evaluate. Useful discussion.
I think the OP should create a new, virgin catalog and test it with ONE set of images. I suspect John may be onto something here, that the edited file is back where it should be, just not showing due to perhaps some filtering. A new catalog and one round trip should provide a clue if this is the case or not quite easily and quickly.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

pflower

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2018, 01:28:48 pm »

Ah.  That is interesting.

I never usually bother with the 4 columns on the top of the grid.  But looking at the Text button you can search for keywords by typing them in. That, not surprisingly, does result in a selection based upon the keywords.  It is early days yet but if I filter by that route then quite possibly this works.  I have only experimented on 3 photos to date but all made the round trip to Photoshop and back and appeared in the filtered selection.  (still getting the weird time stamp anomaly though).

I had always used the keyword list and clicked on the little arrow to the right of the keyword.  I have been doing that since version 1 without any problems.  Suddenly it looks as if that method of filtering has gone haywire when using PS as an external editor.  So if I filter my photos from the boxes at the top of the grid by searching for a keyword things work as expected.  If I filter from clicking on the arrow next to the keyword then although the resulting Tiff does end up in Lightroom as it is supposed to do it is not visible in the filtered selection even though the keyword count is increased by 1.  And this has only just happened.

As regards the Custom Filter - I always look at the drop down menu on the bottom right on the library module under the keyword list.  This allows for a number of presets including "Filters Off" - the same as "None" at the top of the grid.  When you filter by keyword the drop down menu changes to "Custom Filter" to reflect that there is a filter in operation.  It is possible to save a new preset based upon the selection obtained from the Text button, but that is a cumbersome way to go. 

LR has always worked fine using my method.  Suddenly it isn't working.  Strange.

 
How is LR filtered immediately before you Edit in Photoshop? Are you filtering the photos by clicking on the arrow, or are you doing something else? There is nothing in LR that is called a "Custom Filter", but there is a Filter Preset which you can save from the little menu on the Library Filter (the 4+ columns at the top of the grid). If you are using a Filter Preset, you may have included the file type in it, which will mean that only raw files are shown and the new PSD/TIF isn't. Reopening LR releases the filter, which explains why you would then see the PSD/TIF.
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JeanMichel

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2018, 02:39:52 pm »



Ah.  That is interesting.

I never usually bother with the 4 columns on the top of the grid.  But looking at the Text button you can search for keywords by typing them in. That, not surprisingly, does result in a selection based upon the keywords.  It is early days yet but if I filter by that route then quite possibly this works.  I have only experimented on 3 photos to date but all made the round trip to Photoshop and back and appeared in the filtered selection.  (still getting the weird time stamp anomaly though).

I had always used the keyword list and clicked on the little arrow to the right of the keyword.  I have been doing that since version 1 without any problems.  Suddenly it looks as if that method of filtering has gone haywire when using PS as an external editor.  So if I filter my photos from the boxes at the top of the grid by searching for a keyword things work as expected.  If I filter from clicking on the arrow next to the keyword then although the resulting Tiff does end up in Lightroom as it is supposed to do it is not visible in the filtered selection even though the keyword count is increased by 1.  And this has only just happened.

As regards the Custom Filter - I always look at the drop down menu on the bottom right on the library module under the keyword list.  This allows for a number of presets including "Filters Off" - the same as "None" at the top of the grid.  When you filter by keyword the drop down menu changes to "Custom Filter" to reflect that there is a filter in operation.  It is possible to save a new preset based upon the selection obtained from the Text button, but that is a cumbersome way to go. 

LR has always worked fine using my method.  Suddenly it isn't working.  Strange.

I just tried the following, and this is likely the cause of your issue.
Here goes:
In LR View Grid
At the top, click on Metadata
Four boxes will appear, in my case they always end up being DATE, CAMERA, LENS, LABEL
You can change any of those boxes to a pile of metadata options, and you can add or remove columns
Either add a column or change one to select FILE TYPE
If you select ALL file types, you TIF or PSD should appear as soon as you save it in PS
But if you have only specific file types selectesd e.g.: DNG, JPG, CR2… the saved TIF or PSD file will not show up. That metadata selection seems to stick with folders or collections.

What I did:
Opened a collection; selected DNG files in the metadata box; opened a file in PS; saved it. Back in LR, it did not show up, but did so immediately after I changed the metadata box to show ALL files.

Hope this helps.

Jean-Michel

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pflower

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2018, 03:25:11 pm »


I just tried the following, and this is likely the cause of your issue.
Here goes:
In LR View Grid
At the top, click on Metadata
Four boxes will appear, in my case they always end up being DATE, CAMERA, LENS, LABEL
You can change any of those boxes to a pile of metadata options, and you can add or remove columns
Either add a column or change one to select FILE TYPE
If you select ALL file types, you TIF or PSD should appear as soon as you save it in PS
But if you have only specific file types selectesd e.g.: DNG, JPG, CR2… the saved TIF or PSD file will not show up. That metadata selection seems to stick with folders or collections.

What I did:
Opened a collection; selected DNG files in the metadata box; opened a file in PS; saved it. Back in LR, it did not show up, but did so immediately after I changed the metadata box to show ALL files.

Hope this helps.

Jean-Michel

Good idea, but no go.  The box is set to all files and the Tiffs are properly imported into LR but just not visible if I do a filtered selection based upon the Keyword list.  It is fine if I filter via the "Text" button and search for the keyword.

This was a very intermittent problem that has now manifested itself as a permanent problem.  Next step is to get some help from Adobe.  From previous experience the customer support in the UK is pretty good.

Will report back in case anyone is interested.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2018, 03:48:59 pm »

Really, you should go back over my post again. I think it exactly describes your issue.

pflower

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2018, 07:10:02 pm »

Really, you should go back over my post again. I think it exactly describes your issue.

Well I have and in some detail and experimentation, and I absolutely acknowledge that you are by far and away the most knowledgeable and helpful expert on Lightroom that I have come across.  And I am extremely grateful and appreciative of your time and input into my dilemma.  I am most certainly not ignoring you very helpful suggestions.

I hadn't looked at the 4 boxes on top of the grid view with any seriousness unless I was trying to filter by camera or lens etc (which I very seldom do).  After you mentioned it I did look into it and if I filter my Raw files by the "Text"  box and then type in the keyword I am searching for then I get a properly filtered selection based upon that keyword.  If then I do a round trip to PS from that selection the resulting tiff is immediately visible in the selection.  BUT if I filter by using the Keyword panel by clicking on the arrow next to the keyword then the round trip into PS doesn't show up in the filtered selection  Previous to last week it mostly always did.  Now it does not.  Further although the new Tiff shows up in the selection based upon the "Text" box at the top of the  grid view it is not visible if I then select by the arrow next t to keyword. 

I can't understand why this is happening.  I have been using LR since version 1 and this has only just appeared. Clearly no one else is experiencing this problem so it is probably something unique to me.

So your workflow works perfectly.  BUT.. since the easier route is clicking on the arrow next to the keyword (which is a feature of LR) and that no longer works for me when roundtripping t PS I am simply perplexed.


nn
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john beardsworth

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2018, 06:40:59 am »

Have you ruled out Sort Order? Often people say they can't find a new image because the grid is sorted by Edit Time and they don't see the new one appearing.

Because the keyword counter is updating, and restart fixes the problem, I would still place my bet on a Custom Filter. Start from a folder, not a collection, and cClicking the arrow in the Keyword List panel should mean that the Library Filter (the four+ columns) sets its first column to that keyword. All other columns should have "All" selected? Does that happen? If so, without doing anything else, try doing the round trip. If it fails to show the new PSD/TIF, again without doing anything else, save the Custom Filter as a new preset and examine that preset in Notepad. You'll find it in your presets folder in Explorer in the Filter Presets subfolder. This should reveal if anything else is being set by the filter.

digitaldog

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2018, 09:03:50 am »

Which is why I suggested testing with one image in a virgin/new catalog to eliminate such possible user settings but we never heard if the round trip works or not in that test.
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Andrew Rodney
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pflower

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2018, 02:51:18 pm »

Have you ruled out Sort Order? Often people say they can't find a new image because the grid is sorted by Edit Time and they don't see the new one appearing.

Because the keyword counter is updating, and restart fixes the problem, I would still place my bet on a Custom Filter. Start from a folder, not a collection, and cClicking the arrow in the Keyword List panel should mean that the Library Filter (the four+ columns) sets its first column to that keyword. All other columns should have "All" selected? Does that happen? If so, without doing anything else, try doing the round trip. If it fails to show the new PSD/TIF, again without doing anything else, save the Custom Filter as a new preset and examine that preset in Notepad. You'll find it in your presets folder in Explorer in the Filter Presets subfolder. This should reveal if anything else is being set by the filter.

Many thanks to all who have helped me with this.  I feel a bit of an idiot but I have finally worked out what was going wrong - well not completely but probably.  John and others were on the right track - it comes down to what file type is selected in the metadata boxes at the top of the grid view.  If you create  a selection that is composed only of Raw files by clicking on the arrow in the keywords list then the metadata box in the grid view only lists the file types that are in the selection.  So if you only have Raw files in your selection then the metadata box for file type will only show Raw Files.  It can't show anything else.  So when round tripping to PS and saving as a Tiff doesn't meet the criteria and so doesn't show in the selection.

For years I had basically ignored the 4 boxes at the top of the grid view.  Now I start from the grid view with these open and when I make a selection and make sure that all file types are selected.  Of course this doesn't entirely explain what was going wrong, since having forced LR to acknowledge the new Tiffs by restarting I would have thought that a further selection via the arrow key would get the metadata file type to acknowledge that there were Tiffs in there.  But at present things seem to working fine.

As I say I feel a bit stupid for not working this out myself - but then I couldn't.  There is so much petty argument and sniping these days on forums (less on this than others) that it is really gratifying to find people who will take the time and trouble to offer advice and assistance.  So I thank all of you.

Best wishes to all
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john beardsworth

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2018, 02:58:58 pm »

Great! Asking questions is fine - what's really stupid is not asking when one has a problem.

FranciscoDisilvestro

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2018, 08:05:23 pm »

Many thanks to all who have helped me with this.  I feel a bit of an idiot but I have finally worked out what was going wrong - well not completely but probably.  John and others were on the right track - it comes down to what file type is selected in the metadata boxes at the top of the grid view.  If you create  a selection that is composed only of Raw files by clicking on the arrow in the keywords list then the metadata box in the grid view only lists the file types that are in the selection.  So if you only have Raw files in your selection then the metadata box for file type will only show Raw Files.  It can't show anything else.  So when round tripping to PS and saving as a Tiff doesn't meet the criteria and so doesn't show in the selection.

For years I had basically ignored the 4 boxes at the top of the grid view.  Now I start from the grid view with these open and when I make a selection and make sure that all file types are selected.  Of course this doesn't entirely explain what was going wrong, since having forced LR to acknowledge the new Tiffs by restarting I would have thought that a further selection via the arrow key would get the metadata file type to acknowledge that there were Tiffs in there.  But at present things seem to working fine.

As I say I feel a bit stupid for not working this out myself - but then I couldn't.  There is so much petty argument and sniping these days on forums (less on this than others) that it is really gratifying to find people who will take the time and trouble to offer advice and assistance.  So I thank all of you.

Best wishes to all

Did you made a selection by file type before selecting the keyword? otherwise there is still something wrong. If you select a keyword by clicking on the arrow on the keyword list it should not also filter by file type automatically. I tried it and it doesn't do it in my LR instance.

I'm glad you found a solution, but it is still a workaround.

john beardsworth

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2018, 03:16:39 am »

It's often good to wait a few days before saying "problem solved"!

Echoing Mark's comments about obscure settings... One little trick in the Library Filter is to use the Shift key when you click on the words Text, Metadata and Attributes. This allows you to display all aspects of the filter. It may help finally resolve this one.

John

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2018, 03:57:36 pm »

Echoing Mark's comments about obscure settings... One little trick in the Library Filter is to use the Shift key when you click on the words Text, Metadata and Attributes. This allows you to display all aspects of the filter. It may help finally resolve this one.

Thanks for that tip, John. I didn't know you could do that. But I've only been using LR since v1.0  ;)

Jeremy
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john beardsworth

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2018, 07:00:15 am »

You don't know how much I hate hidden tricks like this, Jeremy!

Luckily there aren't too many, and  they can usually be boiled down to "hold down Alt/Opt when you're clicking this or dragging that".

John

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2018, 08:43:47 am »

You don't know how much I hate hidden tricks like this, Jeremy!

Luckily there aren't too many, and  they can usually be boiled down to "hold down Alt/Opt when you're clicking this or dragging that".

John
I hate them too.
I wish someone would post a list of the top 200 or so Alt/Op tricks in LR!   ::)
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john beardsworth

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2018, 09:25:47 am »

There aren't that many! These are ones I use:
  • When you're dragging a slider in Develop - you often get a preview of the effect
  • When you want to set or reset your own Develop default for a camera - the Reset button changes
  • When you're opening/closing a parent folder/collection/keyword - you can open / close the entire tree
  • When you're adding a new line to a smart collection - you can nest extra criteria

There are others such as Alt clicking a label in Develop's right panel resets that section, but I always double click it instead, and in most modules the left buttons change too, but I never find the changes useful. Oh, and when you're in Map, Alt lets you drag to zoom. When you're in Preferences > Lightroom Sync - you get access to a diagnostic log and rebuild button. But really just those 4 are all I really remember / use.

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Photos sent to Photoshop do not always come back to Lightroom
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2018, 12:20:49 pm »

Thanks, John. I think I can cope with those.
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