Thinking Out Loud Here for H system users

[douglevy]

Erik,

I've used both LR and C1 for years, LR is painful (I only really use it for weddings), and don't consider it a viable solution for tethering (99% of all my non-wedding work). And I am going to hang on to the Credo 60, it's more about long term planning. Previously I knew there was a path forward to new CMOS backs. I do have a full Nikon setup (D4/5/850), but I enjoy keeping both systems.

-D

[landscapephoto]

On the other hand my feeling is Hassy will soon be tempted to cut and run, dumping the H and moving entirely to the XD. Otherwise they would have to start bringing out new lenses suitable for a post 150MP world, just like Phase have been moving to BR lenses and that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Also the H lenses are old tech and made by Fuji, who are now a direct competitor in this very small medium format niche so there will be increasing stress in negotiating for such a tuneup.

The people using the multishot version of the H camera which gives 200 millions pixels or more never complain about H lenses, so we may assume that they are not to shabby.

This being said, we all know that Hasselblad is selling more X1D cameras than they expected, so one would expect them to concentrate on developing new lenses for that mount.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi.

The main problem witch C1 is that Phase One does not allow it for competing MFD platforms. So, if a Capture One user switches to say Leica S, Fuji GFX or  Hasselblad, he/she will no longer be able to use Capture One.

So, some of the users of C1 were forced to switch to other platforms and found that LR was OK, after all. We have both Hasselblad, Nikon and Leica S users on this forum making that experience.

But, if you are a happy Credo user you can use that system and you can replace it with a Phase One system. Thre 3-series models may be around for a while and there will always be pre owned backs.

It may come to that Phase One doesn't care about low end MFD competition and allows C1 for say 50 MP backs from Hassy and others.

It is not me causing you problems, the one causing you problems is Phase One...

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

I've used both LR and C1 for years, LR is painful (I only really use it for weddings), and don't consider it a viable solution for tethering (99% of all my non-wedding work). And I am going to hang on to the Credo 60, it's more about long term planning. Previously I knew there was a path forward to new CMOS backs. I do have a full Nikon setup (D4/5/850), but I enjoy keeping both systems.

-D

[douglevy]

Hahah, I know it wasn't you! But the lack of a path forward was frustrating. I see a CPO'd IQ50mp or 100 in my future. The addition of "leaf color" to the p1 backs was a huge jump. When I went from the 40-60 credo, I toyed with the idea of the 50, but the color just wasn't the same, which now it is.

[BAB]

Its an interesting thought process that is as old as me (older) when you want to stay on the cutting edge its expensive but that's what you do when your making money with your tools. If you need a new high end high DR system Phase is a lease to own priced system while the others are priced purchase to own. (Phase dealers know this) We all know the rumors of what is to come in the way of sensors but not how each company might implement them into either existing tooling or brand new cameras. We also don't know what changes to firmware will come with the new offerings and if firmware added features will even benefit us. What I have seen is the newer chips may yield an easier way to upgrade future cameras with newer technology. Lenses are becoming an issue (T-G) I haven't yet switched my H glass for the new Orange glass)

But not to digress your question has not yet an answer but it might in less that a month. For me the real answers will come when I can get my hands the camera with the specs that might replace the H6D. My thought is for now at this intersection of MF going one way and Mirror-Less going another way we can only hope that a loyalty program might be issued by some of the brands to ease the bleeding a bit.
And I would also like to say the Hasselblad Company in retrospect could have done much much more to insure the H6D and X1D were better then the current state. Making high end cameras is a dangerous game out in the global world for the moment but I guess not inGothenburg!

[alatreille]

That's part of my problem. I won't move to an H back because of Phocus, C1 is too important a part of my workflow.

A key reason they are nwver going to support fuji or pentax or other MF options...

It stopped me investing in a gfx.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk

[Joe Towner]

It will be fun to see where the H system lands.  As a brand, Hasselblad needs to be seen as offering a top end product.  I recall them rushing the -50c announcement to be 'first', so for the 150mp to be out this long without an announcement strikes me as odd.  They'll make a 150mp, and what ever else Sony puts out.  I think they'll also go with the 54x40 only H series going forward.  My biggest complaint on the H lineup is the dependance on Fuji for glass. 

I wouldn't be surprised at continued neglect by Fuji given the rumor that the GFX exists purely as a FU to Hasselblad going with a different OEM for lenses on the X1D.  I think the Arri Prime 65 lenses are the Fuji H lenses, so there are reasons to update or add to the line up.  The HCD 35-90 would need a bit of help as it's not quite full coverage on the -100c back.

[BobShaw]

the wake of Phase's announcement of no new H backs. I currently own an H1, H5X, 50, 80 and 120 and Credo60.
 Curious what others' plans are.

Easy. Put the H1, H5X and Credo 60 on eBay either separately or packaged and buy the X1D and use the same lenses with the XH adaptor and tripod clamp.

Eventually get an XCD lens of your favourite size.

I had the H3D and H4D and just about paid for the X1D cash.
If you are desperate to use Capture One then just export TIF out Phocus.

Who really needs 150MP? Certainly not a portrait photographer.

Phase is investing in dinosaurs.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It is pretty clear that Hasselblad will offer 150 MP on 54x41 mm, if there is demand.

My impression is that the H-lenses are quite OK. I would think Hasselblad is capable of designing new lenses, whoever is making them. But, it is a serious effort and if the the existing lens line is OK, why fix it at great expense? Will they loose customers to Phase One? Are Phase One lenses better?

The X-line is a bit different, it is based around a smaller sensor and it needs lenses built around that size.

I would figure that Hasselblad thinks the future is with the X-system, so H-system is sort of in a maintenance mode.

Best regards
Erik

It will be fun to see where the H system lands.  As a brand, Hasselblad needs to be seen as offering a top end product.  I recall them rushing the -50c announcement to be 'first', so for the 150mp to be out this long without an announcement strikes me as odd.  They'll make a 150mp, and what ever else Sony puts out.  I think they'll also go with the 54x40 only H series going forward.  My biggest complaint on the H lineup is the dependance on Fuji for glass. 

I wouldn't be surprised at continued neglect by Fuji given the rumor that the GFX exists purely as a FU to Hasselblad going with a different OEM for lenses on the X1D.  I think the Arri Prime 65 lenses are the Fuji H lenses, so there are reasons to update or add to the line up.  The HCD 35-90 would need a bit of help as it's not quite full coverage on the -100c back.

[eronald]

Phase is investing in dinosaurs.

Phase is selling cloned dinosaurs to museums

Edmund

[Rob C]

Phase is selling cloned dinosaurs to museums

Edmund

Seems to work, though, so if it ain't broke...

My old 500 Series fantasy lingers on. Would it have ever made sense to retain the body and to progress along digital lines by interchangeable backs? Fans of evf could have the option of slipping one into a shoe, perhaps not optimal solution, or just working tethered. I never used my 500s again off-tripod after the first roll when I discovered the difference between a hand-held Rollei TLR at a 125th sec. and my 500C at the same speed. Bigger cameras are usually more for considered (in the sense of careful composition) photography than are the smaller format ones, though even in my own work, many jobs on 135 also required careful framing and, as consequence, tripods.

Fidelity to the 500 format would have retained faith with an absolute style icon as well as have developed upon it in the new age. They went that way for a while, but I think they abandoned the ship too soon.

Rob

[douglevy]

BobShaw that won't work for a ton of reasons. Tethering, my hate of mirrorless (don't like how it feels like I'm watching a video of what I'm about to photograph) etc. I'm not so much looking for an immediate solution, just a road map.

[eronald]

Rob,

The 500C had a lot going for it, and in fact Sinar/Leaf /Rollei went broke trying to clone it while adding AF and an internal motor.

You can get a Hy6 used.

A lot of people liked the Contax, and some even thought the lenses were decent. Look what happened to that system.

You can get a Contax used.

Some people liked the Rollei. It too had good glass

You can get a Rollei used.

Some people liked the Sinar M;

It had Zeiss AF lenses, was modular and Swiss made.

You can get the Sinar M used.

 I don’t think you would like the XF that  much, but you can buy that one new, so go ahead and try it, and tell us

Good business sense always trumps product quality; and so buyers of Phase system buy from the very best business people. Phase dominate MF just as Microsoft dominates PC software - by a combination of adequate design, good-enough engineering, good software architecture, first-rate marketing, sophisticated pricing and sales, expensive but effective after-sales support  and superb business sense.

Edmund

Seems to work, though, so if it ain't broke...

My old 500 Series fantasy lingers on. Would it have ever made sense to retain the body and to progress along digital lines by interchangeable backs? Fans of evf could have the option of slipping one into a shoe, perhaps not optimal solution, or just working tethered. I never used my 500s again off-tripod after the first roll when I discovered the difference between a hand-held Rollei TLR at a 125th sec. and my 500C at the same speed. Bigger cameras are usually more for considered (in the sense of careful composition) photography than are the smaller format ones, though even in my own work, many jobs on 135 also required careful framing and, as consequence, tripods.

Fidelity to the 500 format would have retained faith with an absolute style icon as well as have developed upon it in the new age. They went that way for a while, but I think they abandoned the ship too soon.

Rob

[bcooter]

I know what I'm going to do, but am interested in what others plans are. In the wake of Phase's announcement of no new H backs. I currently own an H1, H5X, 50, 80 and 120 and Credo60.  If you're an H user do you:

Everyone likes new shiny stuff, same here but if what I have is working, or better put not stopping me from doing what I need to do, why  worry about it?

Not an H user but have and do use one orphaned system, a Contax 645.  Have 4 of them and two phase backs and have only had one camera go down because an assistant stuck a thumb through the shutter curtain.  I’ve never worried about those cameras going breaking and Phase/Leaf backs rarely go down, but you probably know that.

I briefly looked at your website and your work is fine especially the colour and composition . . . well done,  so why go through a new learning curve and expense with a brand new system, unless you really need it? Even if Phase stopped supporting your backs in C-1 (which I doubt) or stopped repairs on your present system, you can always find other solutions when needed, though I can tell you our millenial assistants believe a big professional camera is a 5d something or Nikon 850.   In fact the camera that get’s their attention is the Contax, because they’ve rarely seen one and it looks analog with an electronic interface and analog is big with that age group.

Though I think what you have is on the right track and if you see a large, high profile still shoot for editorial like the cover of Vanity Fare, you usually see the photographer with a H system mated to a phase/leaf back, usually from rental.

___________________________________

Looking at this thread, mirrorless is mentioned (it is on nearly every thread).

To be clear I’m not over or underwhelmed with evf mirrorless cameras and I own 9 from 4 makers (if you include the REDs) and use all of them 99% for motion footage.   For still imagery I use ovf cameras, because that’s what I learned on as ovfs are natural to me.  Now with that thought I have a theory that camera makers obviously want to sell more equipment today but are keeping a strong eye on the next generation of image makers.   

A month ago we had a family get together with my young nieces and nephew.  I had cameras with us for an upcoming shoot so I put a 17-55 2.8 on an old 70d for the kids to play with. 

They’re polite and careful kids, so I showed them how to set up and use the camera.  I put my eye on the ovf and they tried that usually with little luck.  So I set it to view and shoot  through the lcd and since they learned photography from smart phones it was natural to them and they ran around shooting like crazy.   Actually shot some interesting imagery, though in 20 minutes they didn’t want to shoot only a still photograph, they wanted to shoot a movie, so I set that up for them and have cards and cards full of footage.

So my point is the next generation of image makers are trained on smart phones and lcds, not optical viewfinder cameras and I believe  that is where the makers will go.  I think mirrorless is getting better but for stills I think it’s still in it’s infancy.  Soon, I’m sure all makers will have evfs that shoot really good quality footage, excellent focus and  better battery life and frame rates.   They will probably grow in size but most cameras get bigger in their later version, especially if they have a motion component to reduce heat and to allow for a much larger lcd, think medium I phone size.

But I’m not the average buyer and use to be an early adopter but have changed because if something works I keep it until the paint wears off.  I still buy new, am actually testing newer Motion cameras next to my REDs. 

___________________________________

Sorry for the long post, but this is always to each his own.  I was in the LA Leica store and they we’re pushing the SL and the cmos M.    I said I dunno, I have an S2 I like and even though it’s kinda goofy I love my M8.   The sales rep said Roger Deakins just came in with his M8 and Mr. Deakins being a very, very busy Academy Award winning DP can afford anything he wants.  So some cameras just click for you (no pun intended) some don’t.

It’s all personal.


IMO

BC

[BobShaw]

BobShaw that won't work for a ton of reasons. Tethering, my hate of mirrorless (don't like how it feels like I'm watching a video of what I'm about to photograph) etc. I'm not so much looking for an immediate solution, just a road map.

I just did 1200 shots of leather bags tethered to a MBP an iPad simultaneously so sorry if I am not seeing your problem.

[douglevy]

I mean, that's fine, that works for you. I've found LR tethering to be unreliable and C1, Capture Pilot etc. more integral to my workflow than any camera choice. Lots of smart comments @BC, thanks!

[eronald]

I mean, that's fine, that works for you. I've found LR tethering to be unreliable and C1, Capture Pilot etc. more integral to my workflow than any camera choice. Lots of smart comments @BC, thanks!

I’m not exactly a Phase lover but it is apparent that P1 has bulletproof tethered probably because once upon a time all their backs were tethered-only. They live or die in that niche, and will probably always do it better than anyone else.

However, for someone working in a studio, I cannot imagine what still photography customers might require over the next 3-5 years that an existing 100MP back mounted on a Hassy cannot do? Is there really any pressure to buy?

And conversely, is there anything an XF can do in the field untethered  that a 100MP XD2 cannot do much better?

Edmund

Edmund

[douglevy]

Oh I totally agree. A future upgrade to a used IQ100 solves a lot of eventual "problems" re:path forward.

[eronald]

Oh I totally agree. A future upgrade to a used IQ100 solves a lot of eventual "problems" re:path forward.

Now all you need is to ask Doug nicely to earmark one for you - and have him send me your own castaway as a sales commission

Edmund

[BobShaw]

I mean, that's fine, that works for you. I've found LR tethering to be unreliable and C1, Capture Pilot etc. more integral to my workflow than any camera choice. Lots of smart comments @BC, thanks!

Well I don't tether to Lightroom. I don't even use that programme at all. You tether to the programme made for the camera, which is Phocus and Phocus Mobile and then export to whatever.