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Author Topic: Canon R - Mirrorless  (Read 2358 times)

tintoreto

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Canon R - Mirrorless
« on: September 05, 2018, 02:30:38 pm »

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Rajan Parrikar

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 03:39:46 pm »

Kevin Raber

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2018, 03:54:42 pm »

There is eye AF but in single shot mode only.  Kind of clunky.
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guido

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2018, 04:07:58 pm »

I don't think it is too bad at the price point. Given how it is targeted to the A7III and Z6, I think it is a fine opening bid. Someone suggested it was a 6D mk III. As a business decision that is a highly profitable segment, I'm sure they will sell a lot more of these than a high megapixel version.
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mistymoon

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 07:27:51 am »

The big news with this announcement is not this camera, but the new lens mount that will become the Canon standard for the next 25 years. From now on, there will be few new EF lenses, and development will concentrate on the RF line. There is backwards compatibility with the EF lenses and the new cameras, but I suspect that development of new EOS SLR cameras will end.
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faberryman

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 07:35:18 am »

The big news with this announcement is not this camera, but the new lens mount that will become the Canon standard for the next 25 years. From now on, there will be few new EF lenses, and development will concentrate on the RF line. There is backwards compatibility with the EF lenses and the new cameras, but I suspect that development of new EOS SLR cameras will end.
The 400 and 600 EF lenses were announced simultaneously, so maybe not.

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2018, 07:57:26 am »

Hi,

I am shooting, Sony A7rII with Canon lenses, I wouldn't rule out switching to Canon R. Wait and see what future holds in it's bay.

Best regards
Erik


https://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/eos-r-system/
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nemophoto

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 10:17:09 pm »

Shooting with Canon for over 35 years, I can safely say the modus operandi has been to experiment with amateur to pro-am bodies before releasing a pro body with the latest features. This was the case when they switched from FD-mount cameras to autofocus EF bodies. (The EOS 620 and 630 came before the EOS-1. My much beloved EOS3 was considered the equivalent of the 5D.) Then again when first introducing digital (remember, the D30 came before the EOS-1D). I think this is what you are seeing now. Is everything the latest and greatest? No. But I wouldn't expect that either based on the track record.

This said, I'm not a huge fan of mirrorless bodies. I hate the technology in fact. I don't see where it really propels photography forward in a significant way. I lament that the new 50 is an RF. I hate looking at "mini-TV screens" -- it feels yet another step removed from my subject (though Kevin said it's "almost DSLR-like"). But, that's my perspective. One day I may eat my words and own one for more than plinking around, but for now, DSLRs are my tool. I think this is a good start. I'm willing to see where they go.
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adri

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 08:13:15 am »


This said, I'm not a huge fan of mirrorless bodies. I hate the technology in fact. I don't see where it really propels photography forward in a significant way. I lament that the new 50 is an RF. I hate looking at "mini-TV screens" -- it feels yet another step removed from my subject (though Kevin said it's "almost DSLR-like"). But, that's my perspective. One day I may eat my words and own one for more than plinking around, but for now, DSLRs are my tool. I think this is a good start. I'm willing to see where they go.

There is a resurgence of vinyl records over CDs.
There is a resurgence of film over digital.
I predict a resurgence of mirror over mirrorless, at some point in the not too distant future?



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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 09:56:42 am »

There is a resurgence of vinyl records over CDs.
There is a resurgence of film over digital.
I predict a resurgence of mirror over mirrorless, at some point in the not too distant future?

Well... most vinyls are pressed from digital masters... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

nemophoto

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 12:50:41 pm »

If manufacturers find it cheaper and easier to make mirrorless, they will abandon DSLRs. But, the interesting thing is that not unlike LPs vs CDs, film is making a comeback (witness Kodak reintroducing both Super 8mm and Ektachrome) or the resurgence of Polaroid cameras -- true Polaroids like the SX70 (though not like the original 669 etc.). But not unlike those developments, maybe DSLRs become the niche market. One question which begs asking: how does the mirrorless revolution affect front and back focus issues since you are focusing directly on the sensor?


Give me mirrors or give me death!
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 01:37:39 pm »

If manufacturers find it cheaper and easier to make mirrorless, they will abandon DSLRs. But, the interesting thing is that not unlike LPs vs CDs, film is making a comeback (witness Kodak reintroducing both Super 8mm and Ektachrome) or the resurgence of Polaroid cameras -- true Polaroids like the SX70 (though not like the original 669 etc.). But not unlike those developments, maybe DSLRs become the niche market. One question which begs asking: how does the mirrorless revolution affect front and back focus issues since you are focusing directly on the sensor?


Give me mirrors or give me death!

If you had a lens with a large aperture that shifts focus when the aperture is closed for a shot, it would impact focus, but you would gain dof closing down so in some cases no issue...

Canon appear to have allowed their new R series to AF wide open. It is possible that focal shift with aperture change is a design consideration in the lenses, so they are confident there will be no issue...

Nikon close down to aperture value while performing AF to match the release aperture, but stop closing at f/5.6 to give enough light to the sensor pre shutter release when the aperture will then finally close to the shooting value on shutter release... A concern with this approach is they are stealing light from the sensor for AF operation. It is possible although unlikely, they have done this due to lens designs not limited to focal shift freeing the designers to focus on sharpness and other design factors. It is more likely a feature for dof visualisation, but even that reason alone would be strange given the impact on AF...

Lenses are lenses so assuming Nikon are not restricted for any lens reason, we may see either a firmware tweak or new models that do not do this...

Hopefully we will get more clarity on this...

One other consideration is lenses with very soft off axis performance, that may hinder AF at the extreme edges. Easy to live with and not typical of modern lenses...

Other than that, if you are AF sensing at pixel level as per Canon, then it should be very accurate. Reviews of the R seemed impressed with the speed and accuracy, including eye AF which one reviewer has suggested will get a firmware upgrade to continuous mode. Currently one shot only. I expect the next gen Canon R's will have very fast tracking and eye AF. At the moment it would be wishful thinking to expect firmware alone to improve it, but who knows... It does have the fasted full frame AF in any case due to the new RF lens body data exchange. Something that Canons competition will find hard to compete with in the long run...
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Zave Smith

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2018, 03:46:45 pm »

Interesting camera but not having dual memory cards is a deal breaker for me.
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JaapD

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2018, 02:07:49 am »

I really donít understand this deal breaker issue. Is it for size or reliability? Storage size should be no problem anymore these days. Another thing could be reliability but one should not have any reliability issues here in the first place. Would you accept your laptop only to be reliable if it needs to be installed with two SSDís?

Iím very picky on selecting card brands, some have indeed a worse reputation than others. I myself have never experienced any card failures what so ever. In my opinion youíre statistically speaking way better off in choosing a reliable card brand than having two card doors (only gaining a factor of 2 in reliability).
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2018, 02:24:29 am »

I really donít understand this deal breaker issue. Is it for size or reliability? Storage size should be no problem anymore these days. Another thing could be reliability but one should not have any reliability issues here in the first place. Would you accept your laptop only to be reliable if it needs to be installed with two SSDís?

Iím very picky on selecting card brands, some have indeed a worse reputation than others. I myself have never experienced any card failures what so ever. In my opinion youíre statistically speaking way better off in choosing a reliable card brand than having two card doors (only gaining a factor of 2 in reliability).

Frankly, I have serious doubts about the single XQD slot on the Z7 and that made me very seriously hesitate although it is otherwise a no brainer for my situation. But at least XQD cards have never failed me over hundreds of thousands of images with my D5 and D850.

But I would personally definitely not trust a single SD. Those cards are just too unreliable and I have on average experienced one or two failure per year (Lexar or Sandisk). I may have been unlucky and my experience may not be representative of the reliability of SD cards. But I would not shoot anything remotely important with a camera featuring only one SD, whatever the brand.

The SSD of my laptop is backuped professionally on a daily basis, all my images are on Raid 6 arrays backed up to other raid 6 arrays.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 02:42:15 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2018, 02:36:08 am »

My view Bernard is single slot is no problem for me but quite clearly both Nikon and Canon screwed up with this because for many people it is an issue.

Now I have to ask myself. Did Nikon and Canon just miss this basic thing or did they analyze their markets with focus groups and all the rest and decide that it was irrelevant? Is this camera not aimed at the type of people on this forum and all over YouTube. Are they expecting to sell mostly to eastern markets for example and do those markets feel differently about dual card slots? The single card slots seem to be the biggest issue here for most people. For me itís Canons lack of IBIS.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2018, 03:01:36 am »

My view Bernard is single slot is no problem for me but quite clearly both Nikon and Canon screwed up with this because for many people it is an issue.

Now I have to ask myself. Did Nikon and Canon just miss this basic thing or did they analyze their markets with focus groups and all the rest and decide that it was irrelevant? Is this camera not aimed at the type of people on this forum and all over YouTube. Are they expecting to sell mostly to eastern markets for example and do those markets feel differently about dual card slots? The single card slots seem to be the biggest issue here for most people. For me itís Canons lack of IBIS.

I feel that Canon never really targeted the R for serious shooters, specwise it is basically a 6DII mirrorless body. A single card may be fine for casual shooting. Canon's marketing has also done a better job at controlling the reactions from the youtube vloggers about this aspect.

On the other hand Nikon has positioned and speced the Z7 as a mirrorless D850, at least on everything except the 2 cards. Either they mis-positionned the camera, or they messed up the marketing message, or both.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 03:20:19 am by BernardLanguillier »
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32BT

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2018, 04:19:02 am »

Wouldn't be surprised if it was a simple designdecision early on:
Marketing: we need ML, and it needs to be compact
Engineering: sure, with one slot we can make it really compact and save batterylife, but it won't be pro
Marketing: no problem, pros don't do compact, they need sturdy balance reliability ruggedness weathersealing double card slot, but the last thing they care about is compact.
Engineering: check


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Rado

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2018, 05:22:59 am »

Yup I don't care if it has one card slot. I've never used more than one card at the same time even in the bodies that had two slots. I wonder how many people even thought about using two cards before the youtube "celebrities" bitched about it endlessly. Youtubers make money when you click their affiliate links, not by selling their photos so what do they care? The lack of IBIS is more annoying but still not a deal breaker.
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chez

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Re: Canon R - Mirrorless
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2018, 09:18:21 am »

For me IBIS is an feature I use every single day and would never purchase another camera without it. It has allowed me to take better images on many occasions during travel photigraphy when the light is dim. Sure one can raise the ISO, but many of my shots are already at 6400 with IBIS.

Don't understand Canon not including IBIS nor what Fuji is thinking with their new camera. Big duh moments.
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