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Author Topic: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera  (Read 7887 times)

Jeff

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2018, 06:42:20 am »

In the interest of full disclosure and transparency, it would be of interest to know who footed the bill for this excursion to Hawaii--travel expense, hotel room, dinners and refreshments. These factors could bias the reporting.

Bill

Kevin did give a disclosure  statement at the end of the article,  which included:

"Canon has covered our expenses for this trip "
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 07:12:06 am by Jeff »
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ski542002

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2018, 06:57:15 am »

Even if it is not a substitute for dual card, use uncompressed raw + jpeg as you will have more changes to recover your images if the card has issues.

If you have the time to elaborate, why would adding another file format to the mix be of benefit when trying to recover images? Usually I use "compressed raw" for my PR-centric captures.  Would compressed raw complicate recovery efforts? Don't need a deep explanation, but I've always purposely avoided this feature, thinking it would slow down the process of files' transfer and muddy up my image editing in C1.
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mbaginy

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2018, 09:19:32 am »

...Hardware is just, well, hardware. Thousands own the same stuff but get totally different levels of success or failure with it.
So yeah, it's the people not the materials that are the juice. For me.
+1
Well stated!!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2018, 09:48:05 am »

In the interest of full disclosure and transparency, it would be of interest to know who footed the bill for this excursion to Hawaii--travel expense, hotel room, dinners and refreshments. These factors could bias the reporting.

Bill

Oh, stop it please!

We are not talking about a young wannabe blogger who indeed might be motivated to do that (blogging) just for the sake of traveling at someone else’s expense. We are talking about a seasoned professional, with a reputation to protect and much to lose if a few meals and drinks would “bias his reporting.”

Kevin Raber

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2018, 12:24:41 pm »

Just an update on the Canon cameras announcement.  Michael and I are still in Hawaii.  We spent a lot of time shooting with the camera yesterday.  We also sat down for a few hours with a brilliant Canon rep and talked at length about the camera.  We covered everything that is a concern.  You'll see a complete tour of all the new features and hear about why certain decisions have been made.  We'll go over the menus and deep dive into some of the new features.  It's a very comprehensive talk where we addressed just about all the things that people are being critical of.  In a sperate video, I'll share my thoughts on the hits and misses and what it means for this camera.

This in-depth look at the R camera and my final thoughts may have to wait until I get home.  We have a packed schedule and flights home tomorrow.  So look for all of this next week. Thanks and keep your eyes out for this then.  It will be worth the wait.
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DougDolde

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2018, 12:53:02 pm »

I have not seen a roadmap for future lenses.  Seems odd since Nikon provided one for the Z lenses
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2018, 01:35:24 pm »

Oh, stop it please!

We are not talking about a young wannabe blogger who indeed might be motivated to do that (blogging) just for the sake of traveling at someone else’s expense. We are talking about a seasoned professional, with a reputation to protect and much to lose if a few meals and drinks would “bias his reporting.”
You are the one who should not react in this way.  Disclosure is always the policy that should be followed, and Kevin did just that.  Whether there is any bias or not will be left to the reader/viewer of the posted materials.  You can't possibly know a priori whether there is any bias in what Kevin will be reporting.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2018, 02:17:43 pm »

... You can't possibly know a priori whether there is any bias in what Kevin will be reporting.

Well, I can. I know him. And anyone who has been frequented this site and still has two grains of salt left in his brain, even if not personally knowing him, would have come to the same conclusion. I can understand if a newbie, someone who's never visited the site before, would ask the question, but old members...?


amolitor

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2018, 02:22:04 pm »

I know Kevin slightly, and I believe him to be an honest man, a straight player.

That said,  Canon is not flying people to Hawaii because they are philanthropists. They expect coverage, and they expect to move the needle, overall, in the positive direction. Controlling the environment in which you first touch the camera, making it a pleasant experience, will inevitably color the results of the reviews. That is literally the point of these junkets. If something seems a misfeature, perhaps a pleasant chat over drinks with an expert from the company will change your opinion a little. Is it dishonest to allow yourself to be persuaded?

Kevin knows perfectly well that his job here is to walk a fine line. He must retain credibility with his audience, and therefore must be basically honest in his reviews. On the other hand, if he does not deliver results to Canon, he will lose access, just as Michael did with Nikon. Then there is no more Breaking Canon News on the front page, which circles around to losing audience, and then revenue.

Canon knows this too, of course, and will not expect Kevin to outright sell out on their behalf. They will expect that, overall, those first impressions reviews from everyone who went to Hawaii, will tend to be more positive than they would have been.

Notice, for instance, that the Canon R reviews trend a little more positive, while the Nikon Z reviews across the internet are uniformly negative. And yet, both cameras are basically similar assemblings of features off the standard chinese menu of camera features that everyone's working with.  To pretend that the cameras are substantively different is absurd, and yet the reactions to them are quite different. Canon flew a stack of people to Hawaii and plied them with food and drink for several days, whereas Nikon invited people to some warehouse in NYC for a few hours.

If you think those two things are unrelated, I have a bridge to sell you.

Again, Kevin is an honest guy. But he is a player in a well understood game, and he is not a superhuman who is immune to the sirens. His job is a rather delicate one. Our job, if we care about Canon gear, is to work out about how much rosy glow we ought to subtract from the review.

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Rob C

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2018, 03:02:03 pm »

If you think camera reviews can be worrisome, think about the car releases, the magazines that get to hang on to some fancy ride for however long etc. etc.!

The only way to some objective truth in a world that tries its best to disallow that, is to refuse freebies and just carry on buying or renting what you want to review. Quite why anyone wants to review cameras is another, unfathomable question entirely. Perhaps it's related to the ambiguity in street?

Rob

32BT

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2018, 03:39:43 pm »

Well, it's very simple: i didn't get invited to any of the events and haven't touched any of the cams yet, so you'd be more interested in my not so humble but otherwise totally unbiased opinion than you would be in anyone's opinion that actually handled the goodies?

Be careful now or we let Shadowblade write an opinion piece on the frontpage...!  ;-)

Where LuLa is concerned i frankly don't care about the feasts for reviewers, because i don't want to read about head-to-head judgements between manufacturers. LuLa has always been about the handling characteristics and industry impact, not about A is better than B is better than C. In the latter case, bias might be a problem.
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fdisilvestro

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2018, 03:44:27 pm »

If you have the time to elaborate, why would adding another file format to the mix be of benefit when trying to recover images? Usually I use "compressed raw" for my PR-centric captures.  Would compressed raw complicate recovery efforts? Don't need a deep explanation, but I've always purposely avoided this feature, thinking it would slow down the process of files' transfer and muddy up my image editing in C1.

The previous suggestions improve the odds of recovering an image (at least partially) in case you experience an issue such a bad sectors in the memory card. It does nothing if you have a total card failure. Raw + JPEG means you will have a backup of the image if one of them happen to be in a faulty sector. If the raw is fine, you can just delete the jpeg, otherwise the jpeg is better than nothing.

In regards to compression, if you have an uncompressed raw and part of the image data lies on a bad sector, you should still be able to recover the remaining of the image as the information does not require decoding. When you compress, losing part of the data could result in not being able to decode it.

I understand that it may impact in the file transfer process, but it should not affect your image editing. In C1 you can have a filter in the import dialogue to exclude the JPEGs

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2018, 04:00:27 pm »

...so you'd be more interested in my not so humble but otherwise totally unbiased opinion than you would be in anyone's opinion that actually handled the goodies?...

Exactly!

Who cares if Kevin is, hypothetically speaking, biased? If he says the lack of IBIS is the best thing since the slice bread because Canon bought him a drink, would you believe it, or would you decide for yourself whether you need it or if it is a dealbreaker? As long as Kevin mentions the lack of IBIS. If he says he loves to carry bricks fast lenses around all day, just because Canon put pineapple on his pizza, would you buy one (lens, not pizza) or would you determine for yourself if you need one?

32BT

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2018, 04:14:12 pm »

I know i'm a lot better at determining if i need a pizza than determining if i need a lens, to be honest... =:-/
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jeremyrh

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2018, 04:15:03 pm »

Exactly!

Who cares if Kevin is, hypothetically speaking, biased? If he says the lack of IBIS is the best thing since the slice bread because Canon bought him a drink, would you believe it, or would you decide for yourself whether you need it or if it is a dealbreaker? As long as Kevin mentions the lack of IBIS. If he says he loves to carry bricks fast lenses around all day, just because Canon put pineapple on his pizza, would you buy one (lens, not pizza) or would you determine for yourself if you need one?

Do you think people make decisions on purely objective criteria? For sure they don't. And it may well be that someone chooses a camera at least in part because they read a puff piece from someone popular.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2018, 04:29:00 pm »

Do you think people make decisions on purely objective criteria? For sure they don't. And it may well be that someone chooses a camera at least in part because they read a puff piece from someone popular.

So? Remember, they would be basing their decision on someone else's opinion. If Kevin would deliberately misstate facts, that is a different matter. The latter would be a fraud. The former is just Darwin in action. And really, what is the worst that could happen? They would end up with a camera that is 10x better anyway than they are photographers. Oh, the horror! If someone chose Canon R vs. Nikon Z just because Canon put pineapple on Kevin's pizza, the universe would implode for sure.

fdisilvestro

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2018, 05:27:36 pm »

I'm sure the reviews will be honest as they have been in Lula and Kevin will not misstate facts. Nevertheless there is a difference in the tone of the review of the Nikon Z vs. the Canon R (a camera filled with innovations that haven’t been present on other cameras before). In addition, the Nikon Z was mentioned in a Rantatorial while the Canon R was on the front page.

Les Sparks

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2018, 11:17:04 pm »

I think Kevin has  been pretty clear about the Canon Nikon thing. Nikon got a tutorial because there was not much to say except nikon has new cameras Kevin got to play with it for too short a time to reach any conclusions so didn't draw any. He reported on some concerns others have expressed and ended by saying he ordered Nikons for review.
Canon got more  coverage because they made camera and people available for extend time. So Kevin has something to say based on his experience. He noted that he would probably purchase the Canon for review if it were interesting.
Seems to me that the Nikon and Canon were treated fairly.
Les Sparks
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Kevin Raber

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2018, 11:33:41 pm »

Now it is my turn.  For the last few days, we have been going 15 hours a day with this camera.  We have done an extensive hands-on interview going over this camera with one of Canon's top tech guys.  If you want to know this camera, menus, and answers to the design questions then this video will reveal it.

I also just finished (Thursday evening Hawaii time) the Hits and Misses video.  I think I'll let you be the judge about how I feel about this camera.  We fly home tomorrow and then Michael who is along with me on this trip has a couple of massive video edits to do.  When these are ready we will share them with you right away.  I am not going to give away my findings and feelings.  Wait a few more days for that. 

I will also say that I am excited (really excited) about the Fuji XT-3 release.  Too bad they were doing it at the same time as Canon.  I am a big Fuji user and it looks like they did a really good job with this release.  Since I already own all the Fuji camera from XT-1 and the Pro cameras I have put an order in for the XT-3 and we will cover that too.

So, let us get home and finalize the videos and accompanying articles for the Canon R camera.  Then we will get on to the XT3 and the Z6 and Z7 cameras when tey ship.

Canon is allowing us to take these cameras home and use further for several weeks.  So, we may have even more to say about that soon.
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fdisilvestro

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Re: Just Published - Canon Launches the EOS R Camera
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2018, 11:35:26 pm »

Seems to me that the Nikon and Canon were treated fairly.
Les Sparks

One as a front page and the other in a rantatorial, yeah, definitely fair
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