CI First Take on Phase One IQ4 150 Announcement

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I don't know, that is the reason I ask. Readout is made on the sensor, Sony is doing that part.

Also the size of the pixels is smaller on the 150 MP sensor and that would probably lead to smaller full well capacity, reducing per pixel DR a bit. On the other hand, it seems smaller pixels have lower readout noise and there is technical progress.

BTW, it is possible to put more than 14 EV DR trough a 14 bit channel, using a tone curve. That was done in Sony's compressed format that passed 13-14 bits of DR trough 11 bits compressed data. But I think they did it off sensor.

It could also be be that the sensor has a lower speed readout mode, that is not specified. But it is a bit confusing.

Best regards
Erik

But doesn’t the leaked plan from Sony from that time say that the old 100Mp Sensor as 14bit readout. We know it actually has 16bit. (Well 15...)


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[billthecat]

Hi,

I'm assuming the Sony sensor is 16 bits. The Sony page is confusing and I can't find any more technical data. I'd like to read more about the sensor.

The Phase One industrial camera with the same sensor seems to just be using 14 bit. They list a dynamic range of 83dB which would be around 13.8 stops. Perhaps for that market the speed is important.

https://industrial.phaseone.com/iXM-RS_150F_Camera.aspx

Bill

[DougDolde]

What the heck does "Infinity Platform" mean?

[eronald]

What the heck does "Infinity Platform" mean?

It's the name of the dock from where the first starships of the Phase One Republic leave for their exploration of the Universe.

Edmund

[BJL]

What does Phase One mean?

It is phase one of the transition of the Mamiya 645 system to digital; phase two will be the mirrorless system, obviously.

[alan_b]

What the heck does "Infinity Platform" mean?

I don't know, but I'm holding out for Infinity+1.

[eronald]

It is phase one of the transition of the Mamiya 645 system to digital; phase two will be the mirrorless system, obviously.

I had a momentary flash of depression,  and for one moment thought "Infinity Platform is the ledge from which one jumps".
But that thought made me laugh

Edmund

[Steve Hendrix]

We did learn a lot of new words this week.

 


Steve Hendrix/CI

[Bo_Dez]

What the heck does "Infinity Platform" mean?

I think it's marketing gobble-de-gook for - "oh crap our SLR is redundant! please don't leave us"

[bjanes]

Hi,

No, I have not any more information. But it clearly says 14 bits.

Now, DR is defined as maximum full well capacity/ readout noise. You never need more bits than what is needed for transferring the dynamic range. The 150 MP back has smaller pixels than the 100 MP back. So to keep the per pixel DR you would probably increase full well capacity and keep down readout noise.

If Sony says that the back is 14 bit, which they do, it would indicate that is the capability of the chip.

But, it is actually possible to push more data trough the channel if we use a tone mapping curve.

If Full Well Capacity/readout noise is better than 16384, it may be possible extract more DR by increasing readout time. Doubling readout time adds a bit of precision. But if your data does not have the accuracy, adding precision will not help.

A bit depth of 14 would be insufficient to encode the full engineering DR of these sensors, but the noise floor of the engineering DR precludes  the photographic utility of using engineering DR. Useful photographic DR is a more appropriate bench mark.

Bill Claff's photographic DR is one such approach. For the Phase One sensors shown in Bill's graph 14 bits would appear to be sufficient to encode the photographic DR.

Regards,

Bill

[Steve Hendrix]

I think it's marketing gobble-de-gook for - "oh crap our SLR is redundant! please don't leave us"

I've promised not to make any allusions to Marvel movies, and with that in mind, it only leaves me this. Which is that it is my hope and expectation that the reference to "Infinity" is referring to a string of ongoing software developments for the IQ4 150 (and presumably future digital backs). Similar to what we have seen with the XF Camera and the firmware updates, which have been extremely well received.

I think it is easy to toss derisive comments at marketing - but if the marketing actually points to something useful, then I think we're arguing over style points. I am extremely interested to see what sort of enhancements they make to static hardware just with software updates. They already have a strong track record of this with the XF. I feel it is a very encouraging development.


Steve Hendrix/CI

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

According to Phase One specs the XF/IQ4150 has 1.4 FPS at 14 bit and 0.7 FPS at 16 bit. So, it may be that it uses a slower readout mode that is not included in the Sony spec sheet for the sensor.

Assuming ramp type converters, adding a bit of precision would give twice the readout time, so the FPS rating is pretty consistent with 15 bit readout, that would handle 15 EV of DR at the pixel level.

Best regards
Erik

A bit depth of 14 would be insufficient to encode the full engineering DR of these sensors, but the noise floor of the engineering DR precludes  the photographic utility of using engineering DR. Useful photographic DR is a more appropriate bench mark.

Bill Claff's photographic DR is one such approach. For the Phase One sensors shown in Bill's graph 14 bits would appear to be sufficient to encode the photographic DR.

Regards,

Bill