Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Down

Author Topic: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")  (Read 8283 times)

nemtom

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #140 on: September 14, 2018, 03:15:40 PM »

As for Hasselblad so far they have not shown any DJI money turned into progress so we wait until the 25th and Iíll give them the benifit of doubt. Itís however becoming increasingly difficult to believe since every other brand has shown their hand with a glimpse or a rumor but not H.

That is incorrect. How about that tiny L1D-20c sitting under the mavic 2 pro? That is the only final, shipped product of the recent announcements.
Logged

BJL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6126
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors: for better bokeh, get a phone?!
« Reply #141 on: September 14, 2018, 04:28:44 PM »

Now the phones have wide angle lenses with huge dof, and it is impossible to get decent subject separation when doing a portrait. That is why computational bokeh is hot, not because people are searching for extreme blur.
...
The desire for mildly blurred backgrounds is simply a return to the esthetics of the 1950s ...
I am not saying otherwise (did I say anything about extreme blur?). I am just noting that fulfilling that desire for "mildly blurred backgrounds" could cease to be much of an argument for bigger, heavier lenses and bigger, more expensive sensors. Maybe high shutter speed/low light photography will reassert itself as the main and more fundamental reason for larger apertures.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 11666
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #142 on: September 14, 2018, 06:05:16 PM »

After years of focus on capturing as much information in a scene as possible with computational photography off-camera (stitching, DoF stacking,...), I am excited to see the field expanding to in-camera applications.

I find it interesting that the most relevant application today is to get less DoF.

Interesting but not surprising since the control of DoF has always been one key aspect of photography. I would argue that it is probably the first moment of truth materializing the fact the photography is an interpretation of reality and not a mere attempt to capture a snapshot or reality.

The camera in phones was first about recording reality. But now, thanks in great part to DoF control, it is IMHO turning into photography as perceived intuitively by non expert users. It is one essential milestone in the perception of the positioning of smartphones amidst the real cameras.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 06:48:11 PM by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6318
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #143 on: September 14, 2018, 07:24:09 PM »

After years of focus on capturing as much information in a scene as possible with computational photography off-camera (stitching, DoF stacking,...), I am excited to see the field expanding to in-camera applications.

I find it interesting that the most relevant application today is to get less DoF.

Interesting but not surprising since the control of DoF has always been one key aspect of photography. I would argue that it is probably the first moment of truth materializing the fact the photography is an interpretation of reality and not a mere attempt to capture a snapshot or reality.

The camera in phones was first about recording reality. But now, thanks in great part to DoF control, it is IMHO turning into photography as perceived intuitively by non expert users. It is one essential milestone in the perception of the positioning of smartphones amidst the real cameras.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard,

 You dish out abstraction with the panache of a french chef serving crÍpes.

 It's interesting to see how long it took for the computer in the camera to catch up with the camera. But is was to be expected that the computer in the camera would swallow the camera.

 If I understand the Apple keynote rightly, the variable bokeh is obtained by using a fairly coarse depth map to attempt an inverse render, determine the objects and then re-render. I guess that's more or less what I do when I draw. In which case I would say that a key feature of photography - the assumption of reality - has now been abstracted away,  and the capture has become a chimera dreamed by a machine. But then we knew that already. Just look at your average auto-cleaned selfy.

 So I agree with you.

 What is interesting is that for you the smartphone is the smart object which can do that by itself, according to the user's desires. The big camera is not hooked up to the Google or Apple cloud, it can't add mascara and lipstick, reshape a chin, move away a frenemy or resize a waist.  The big camera is as dumb as that big hairy lout who's using it, the man who doesn't understand how teens see the world - Papa.

 So the smartphone is a tollgate to mediated perception. It can view what is received, but it can edit what will be sent. The big camera is just a capture device that cannot edit.

 But we knew that too, from the beginning. The brains are in the net. As time moves on, anything that is not connected is insignificant, onboard software will be deprecated in favor of symbiotic local/remote coprocessing. The present state where online software is cached as "apps" is just a momentary phase. The smartphone "terminal" is mightier than the 150Mp camera "standalone device".

 Which is why teens have stopped buying cameras, and they're not going to start again :)

Edmund

PS. I prefer crÍpes to abstraction any day of the week; actually the one nice thing about winter is one can eat crÍpes outside.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 08:43:48 PM by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1485
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #144 on: September 15, 2018, 02:37:31 AM »

Which is why teens have stopped buying cameras, and they're not going to start again :)

Not just teens.

Logged

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1485
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2018, 02:55:46 AM »

* deleted *
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 06:16:17 PM by Manoli »
Logged

landscapephoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 588
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2018, 10:29:57 AM »

Which is why teens have stopped buying cameras

Unless it is built by Lomo.
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6318
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #147 on: September 15, 2018, 02:51:09 PM »

Unless it is built by Lomo.

Or called Instax, and medium format :)

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6318
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #148 on: September 17, 2018, 02:33:00 PM »

Or called Instax, and medium format :)

Edmund

The Fuji Leaks about the "rangefinder" GFX 50R are getting more insistent.
Some "sketches" have dropped.
Fuji PR is milking the suspense for all it's worth.
Drip, drip, drip.
https://www.fujirumors.com/leaked-this-is-the-fujifilm-gfx-50r-accurate-sketches/

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

narikin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1160
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #149 on: September 17, 2018, 08:25:40 PM »

The Fuji Leaks about the "rangefinder" GFX 50R are getting more insistent.

https://www.fujirumors.com/leaked-this-is-the-fujifilm-gfx-50r-accurate-sketches/

Edmund

One thing to remember about the GFX-50R 'compact' MF rangefinder, is that due to immutable laws of physics, it can never really be that small. The body can be compact-ish, but not the lenses: a 'standard' lens for this would be about 60-70mm, and be far larger than a 'standard' FF lens, and much, much larger than an APS-C 'standard'.  These are optical laws that cannot be broken.

Sure, there might be a pancake lens released by Fuji/someone, but it will likely have poor edge performance, with strong CA, from design compromises. Good lenses, that is: lenses good enough for a 50 or 100Mp sensor, will be big and near impossible to shrink meaningfully.

 
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6318
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Updating Photokina Medium Format rumors (UPD. GFX 50R "travel compact")
« Reply #150 on: September 17, 2018, 09:29:05 PM »

I feel fairly confident predicting a compact 40mm lens to go with the GFX 50R.

Edmund

PS please like and follow my Instagram.

One thing to remember about the GFX-50R 'compact' MF rangefinder, is that due to immutable laws of physics, it can never really be that small. The body can be compact-ish, but not the lenses: a 'standard' lens for this would be about 60-70mm, and be far larger than a 'standard' FF lens, and much, much larger than an APS-C 'standard'.  These are optical laws that cannot be broken.

Sure, there might be a pancake lens released by Fuji/someone, but it will likely have poor edge performance, with strong CA, from design compromises. Good lenses, that is: lenses good enough for a 50 or 100Mp sensor, will be big and near impossible to shrink meaningfully.

Narikin,

By Pythagoras, the image radius of 24*36 is  21.63mm, and that of 44x33m is 27.5mm so the ratio is 1.27, in other words the necessary image radius has increased by 27%.

Leica has shown us that one can have some very compact pancake wides suitable for street and travel photography, eg the 35mmf2 Summicron, provided one has enough DR to correct for falloff, and provided the microlenses on the sensor are suitably arranged. They have also demonstrated collapsible pullout designs ad nauseam, while in both cases retaining what their aficionados claim to be decent lens quality.

 I don't think that a 27% increase in coverage radius will invalidate this calculus, if eg. one moves to a 40 or 45mm lens. I believe CA is actually  one of the design flaws that is fairly easy to deal with in software. Because we should remember that the lenses used for an EVF camera just need to be correctable, they don't have to be "good".

My expectation of a fairly compact travel lens still stands.  The domestic japanese customer base will want compact. Of course we could see some collapsible tricks as well :)

I would remind you that very compact symmetric wides are seen on the medium format Alpa. If you believe a compact or possibly foldable design does violate some law of opticks, please feel free to educate me.

Edmund
« Last Edit: Today at 06:07:51 PM by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Up