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Author Topic: A Light Fastness Comparison of Epson K3, Epson HD, and Canon Lucia EX Ink Sets  (Read 1350 times)

Garnick

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I'm 79 years old now. My mother made it to 106 years old. So for me, 27 years is probably enough...

Hello Eric,

Following Marks comments concerning your website I immediately checked it out for myself.  Quite honestly, I don't know how I had missed it, but I'm VERY GLAD I found it.  GREAT WORK Eric!  You've got seven years on me, and I doubt I'll still be kicking around seven years from now, but I'm betting on you.  Good genes.   

Gary
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MHMG

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That said we had nice threads here about alternative methods to profile the Z3200 and Z3100 but I have not seen it culminating in a web page that describes the process thoroughly. Did I overlook something?

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Geraldo Garcia and yourself, among others, gave us a lot of insight in those threads you are remembering, and I had promised Mark Linquist to help him write up a "how to" article for the Z3200.com website, but other projects have taken priority (like the Aardenburg study being discussed in this thread). That said, Mark L, John Dean, and I have recently been conducting some print tests made with monster ICC profiles (4357 and 6000 patch counts) and the print quality improvement achieved is subtle but real...,ie., quality that no die-hard fine art printmaker would want to overlook. The quality I speak of is not about extended gamut. It's about tone and color accuracy within the color gamut that helps to visually differentiate between very subtle colors and tones. The I* metric may well be the analytical tool with which this improved print quality can be objectively measured, but subjectively, Mark L, John, and I all observe it in the Z3200 print quality made by using the Z3200 to print and measure these large patch count profiling targets.

So, the ball is now definitely in my court. The Z3200 profiling project is moving rapidly up on my "to do" list. Still competing, however, with more Aardenburg test results concerning the new Canon Pro-11 ink set and an Aardenburg test report redesign that adds light-induced dark storage staining and dark storage control sample tracking into the results.

Perhaps I can ask Mark L. and John Dean to start a new thread on the collaborative work we've been doing with the Z3200 profiling if folks are interested.

All the best,
Mark   
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Mark D Segal

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Yes, that's the challenge for all modern equipment reviewers in the internet age...tight deadlines to publish on a time sensitive schedule with goal of being first out of the gate with the latest news, yet too little time to spend in a meaningful way with a complex piece of equipment.

cheers,
Mark

Mark, don't say "all" modern equipment reviewers..... I'm one of them for this website and we don't do things that way. I don't have deadlines to produce anything for LuLa, my stuff gets published after both Kevin and I are ready to do so. It could be soon after or a good period of time after the equipment has been on the market. Being first out of the gate isn't an objective. I can spend as much time as I think I need with whatever I'm reviewing and the manufacturers/developers understand that. That said, to be relevant and useful to our readers, we simply cannot let an infinity of time pass before we publish, because the readers are curious about the stuff and anxious for analytic information.

So talking printers, there are things that don't become apparent for some time into usage - in fact anything that happens mainly as a function of longer periods of use - say more than a couple of months - would not get into a review simply because it hasn't happened. Clogging and maintenance is a case in point , and for cause one of the foremost concerns our readers bring to my attention. Yet there are aspects of clogging and ink usage for maintenance that don't reveal their full character till well into the life of the printer, partly because the manufacturers are not transparent about it and partly because of machine behaviour. For example with the Epson SC-P5000, after about 6 months of use it calls for an all-channel power cleaning from the Admin menu - a procedure that consumes about 70 ml of ink and takes about half an hour. At first I thought it was a firmware glitch, but no, Epson told me it's normal and I should do it. There is nothing about it in the product documentation for consumers, so I wouldn't have known to wait for it, and even I did, I wouldn't have held back a review for six months because of it. Does that make my reviews less "meaningful", as you put it? I'll leave it to the readers and my publisher to opine on that one, but I'd just close with suggesting to you that not all situations are ideal, so we often need to make practical compromises, and as long as those compromises are both sensible and made in good faith, I think that's fine.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

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Mark, don't say "all" modern equipment reviewers..... I'm one of them for this website and we don't do things that way. ..

I stand corrected. I should have said "most reviews" and not "all reviewers". That said, I also think many reviewers like yourself do a great job, and I learn a lot even from reviews where the reviewer is not given a lot of time with the new product. I was mainly trying to say that many modern products are too complex to become quickly familiar with them, and further insights come out slowly over time, usually on thoughtful forums like this one.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Mark D Segal

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Understood Mark, and thanks; and I agree - a lot of this stuff becomes an evolving picture over time.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

shadowblade

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The ball's definitely in HP's court with regards to the Z9.

Is it going to be an artisan printer for photographers, individual artists and small studios, like the Z3200, or just another large-volume-production commercial machine like everything Epson produces, as well as most of Canon, and even the rest of HP's own lineup?

If they made an artisanal printer, with an emphasis on print longevity and having good B&W as well as colour output in the same printer, and features such as easily-replaceable printheads, inbuilt spectro and profiling, inbuilt cutters, ease of home maintenance, etc. - mostly already present in the Z3200 - they'd pretty much have the entire artisan market to themselves. And it's not a small market - it may sell less ink, but has the potential to sell more units, since more individuals would buy them, not just print shops. If it's just another commercial poster printer geared towards advertising output, with no particular features for the artisan market (even worse, if the old Z3200 does better with regards to key performance measures, such as longevity and monochrome output), then it becomes just anothrr printer competing against Epson and Canon for the same space, and even against HP's own latex printers, which do the same poster-printing job faster and more cheaply than aqueous printers anyway.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Geraldo Garcia and yourself, among others, gave us a lot of insight in those threads you are remembering, and I had promised Mark Linquist to help him write up a "how to" article for the Z3200.com website, but other projects have taken priority (like the Aardenburg study being discussed in this thread). That said, Mark L, John Dean, and I have recently been conducting some print tests made with monster ICC profiles (4357 and 6000 patch counts) and the print quality improvement achieved is subtle but real...,ie., quality that no die-hard fine art printmaker would want to overlook. The quality I speak of is not about extended gamut. It's about tone and color accuracy within the color gamut that helps to visually differentiate between very subtle colors and tones. The I* metric may well be the analytical tool with which this improved print quality can be objectively measured, but subjectively, Mark L, John, and I all observe it in the Z3200 print quality made by using the Z3200 to print and measure these large patch count profiling targets.

So, the ball is now definitely in my court. The Z3200 profiling project is moving rapidly up on my "to do" list. Still competing, however, with more Aardenburg test results concerning the new Canon Pro-11 ink set and an Aardenburg test report redesign that adds light-induced dark storage staining and dark storage control sample tracking into the results.

Perhaps I can ask Mark L. and John Dean to start a new thread on the collaborative work we've been doing with the Z3200 profiling if folks are interested.

All the best,
Mark   
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

Mark, thank you for the update and a thank you for the three of you for the work done so far. I think it is a good idea to have a new thread on it as my memory is a bit rusty on this topic meanwhile.

I saved some links to the threads etc in a map so will study that content again.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Mark Lindquist

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Mark, thank you for the update and a thank you for the three of you for the work done so far. I think it is a good idea to have a new thread on it as my memory is a bit rusty on this topic meanwhile.

I saved some links to the threads etc in a map so will study that content again.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Were getting to the article Ernst, its taking more time than we anticipated because weve become so busy with pressing projects. That said, were still experimenting and now John Dean is testing and becoming another voice of reason within the project. We will be contacting you soon as well for your input and participation if you are agreeable.  The article is just a matter of finishing and editing, but its still somewhat of a moving target since were continuing to make progress, now, with additional testing by John, and certain realizations that are coming to light. once MHMG gets some clear space, and I get clear of a current immediate project involvement, hopefully we should be able to report. 

Best wishes,

Mark

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Mark Lindquist
z3200.com, MarkLindquistPhotography

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There is a small but eager crowd that would love to lean more about what the Z3200 can do with better profiling. Much appreciated, guys.
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