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Author Topic: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 76311 times)

D Fuller

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #260 on: August 03, 2018, 12:29:49 am »

I understand, but their own announcement mentions FF so I believe that this is pretty much a done deal.

And frankly, 33x44 isnít that much bigger.

Cheers,
Bernard

Agreed. And given the resolution of the D850, not enough more resolution to be worth doing. (At least not with any sensor we know about.)  so Iím probably reading too much intent into that line of copy.
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Rob C

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #261 on: August 03, 2018, 04:07:00 am »

I think they are probably just talking about the size of their new mount?

Cheers,
Bernard

Or are they just laughing their balls off at the imaginative convolutions through which camera enthusiasts put themselves?

A danger, for them (Nikon), though, is as ever: anticlimax. Think Df.

Rob

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #262 on: August 03, 2018, 04:18:32 am »

Or are they just laughing their balls off at the imaginative convolutions through which camera enthusiasts put themselves?

A danger, for them (Nikon), though, is as ever: anticlimax. Think Df.

Indeed. But the Df was the first time in history Nikon tried to do some real marketing... and it worked beautifully... only the product they were trying to sell wasn't that great...

Then they came up with the D850... the best DSLR in history... and forgot to market it...

Perhaps they will be able to get both marketing and product right once?  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #263 on: August 03, 2018, 06:31:22 am »

The recent rumors about mount diameter are more focused on 62mm. A few say 54mm, a few say 73mm.

PhilDunn at DPReview previously said 64mm (and body 147 wide) based on hot shoe size, but just corrected that to 54mm +/-1mm (he forgot a subtraction). Still 147mm wide.

A thought: 49mm might be the even smaller diameter measured where the locking flanges protrude in at some places. But they can be positioned away from the frame corners; if so, it is the 54+/-1mm that matters optically.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #264 on: August 03, 2018, 10:09:43 am »

How about a deal at 58?

Cheers,
Bernard

Telecaster

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #265 on: August 03, 2018, 04:49:20 pm »

The thing I like about 44x33mm is the aspect ratio. 36x27mmÖthis would be nice (not that I'm expecting it from Canikon).

-Dave-
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Alex Waugh

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #266 on: August 03, 2018, 06:41:45 pm »

What I am expecting though is a 4x5 crop mode in viewfinder same as the D850. Im hoping since the new camera is mirrorless the crop will be absolute with black borders instead of lines or faded areas.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #267 on: August 05, 2018, 06:31:35 am »

With such a huge hole, adaptors for this camera are going to look like a reverted cone :D

Jokes apart I think this is very good news.

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BJL

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Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming BEFORE early 2019
« Reply #268 on: August 05, 2018, 07:27:25 am »

With such a huge hole, adaptors for this camera are going to look like a reverted cone :D
Itís not a huge hole, itís a (relatively) compact camera. Several estimates based on the hot shoe size put it around or a bit below the 54mm of Canon EF Mount.

P. S. It amuses me that a ďcompact system cameraĒ forum is speculating about a mount that is 65mm or even 73mm high inside, so 75-80 or more high in all. The Olympus Pen-F and Panasonic GX-9 are EVF system cameras only 72mm high in total; thatís compact!

Jokes aside,49-54mm seems a good size.
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32BT

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #270 on: August 05, 2018, 01:58:53 pm »

Why am i now longing for an X1D with GFX guts and a mount that takes Zeiss glass?

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Dave Rosser

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #271 on: August 05, 2018, 02:49:59 pm »

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/05/another-nikon-mirrorless-camera-picture-leaked.aspx/
U
Cheers,
Bernard


Either the young lady is tiny or the camera is huge, as big as the D700 I got rid of when I moved to Fuji and bigger than the F2 I traded in when I went digital!!

Dave

« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 02:58:32 pm by Dave Rosser »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #272 on: August 05, 2018, 03:02:23 pm »

Either the young lady is tiny or the camera is huge, as big as the D700 I got rid of when I moved to Fuji and bigger than the F2 I traded in when I went digital!!

Hard to tell, but Nikon has made it clear already that ultimate image quality is their top priority, meaning that compactness wasnít.

I find it interesting that different manufacturers have apparently listened to different users requirements.

Overall though, lenses have a larger impact than the body on the size of the system. And pretty much any lens should be adaptable on this camera.

As far as I am concerned, ergonomics and image quality top compactness when I am serious about photographying. I use my iPhone otherwise.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:44:43 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Telecaster

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #273 on: August 05, 2018, 04:05:03 pm »

Aside from the EVF hump the camera's size looks standard midrange Nikon to me. Assuming the pics are legit, that is.

If Nikon's F mount adapter, assuming there is one, can autofocus AI(S) F lenses I might give it a go.  ;D

-Dave-
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BJL

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #274 on: August 05, 2018, 05:35:40 pm »


Either the young lady is tiny or the camera is huge, as big as the D700 I got rid of when I moved to Fuji and bigger than the F2 I traded in when I went digital!!
Her bottom finger falls below the bottom of the camera, and would just fit on the grip if she moved the hand up to have a finger on the shutter release; how do you see the body (as opposed to the lens) being huge? Chinese actresses (she is Dilraba Dilmurat) are not known for huge hands are they?

The EVF does look reassuringly big, judging relative to the hot shoe size.
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Rob C

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #275 on: August 05, 2018, 05:50:41 pm »

At least the viewfinder appears to be in line with the lens mount, and not stuck off to one side.

That said, it doesn't strike me as a very good-looking object; nobody will beat Leica M-styling for that prize.

Rob

shadowblade

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #276 on: August 05, 2018, 05:52:15 pm »

Is there anything out there that says this 'full frame' camera is 24x36mm? For the purpose of a teaser - essentially, an announcement-of-an-announcement - they could justifiably call anything 24x36mm and larger full-frame. And, if it were larger, the shock value of the announcement would be extreme.

For a 24x36mm sensor, the lens mount is odd. Some argue about the ability to make faster lenses, but Leica have been making f/0.95 and f/1 lenses for decades, with a mount that's both narrower and deeper than the E-mount. And Nikon themselves have had no problem making f/1.4 primes for their deep and narrow F-mount. With a telecentric design, it doesn't matter what the throat size is, as long as it is at least as large as the sensor - all the light is coming perpendicular to the sensor anyway, so any light passing through the throat not directly in front of the sensor isn't going to hit it. In any case, superfast lenses would only make up a small niche in any manufacturer's customer base - for the bread-and-butter f/2.8 zooms and f/1.4-f/2 primes, all the larger mount does is make the lenses bigger and heavier.

But a larger-than-24x36mm sensor could be Nikon's best trump card. Nikon came late to the full-frame DSLR party, and has suffered badly for it - Canon grabbed the lions share of the market by being first, and has kept it. Now they're also late to the mirrorless party - Sony has incumbency here, and starts with a huge lead in compatible lenses (adapted lenses are never really the same as native, except where there is no AF anyway). But going for a larger format - 30x45mm, 33x44mm, even 36x36mm - and defining that as their new 'full frame' would turn the tables on Sony. Nikon could then easily claim supremacy in imagy quality. Many current Sony users would have a major reason to switch systems - after all, image quality is the reason they switched from Canon in the first place. So would Canon shooters, who would have to switch systems to move to mirrorless anyway. And, for a lens manufacturer working with a closed mount system, it would make it much harder for Sigma et al to compete for the first few years, because they couldn't simply slap a Nikon mount on their existing lenses and call it a day.  Yes, they'd be competing with Fuji, but, comparatively, that is small fry. Sony would struggle to respond - the E-mount can handle 24x36mm, but nothing larger. Even with an edge in sensor technology, a larger sensor is difficult to overcome.

If Nikon came out with a larger sensor, implementing a crop mode to shoot with current lenses via an adapter and designing new lenses around the larger sensor (e.g. 20-40mm, 32-90mm and 90-260mm f/2.8 or f/3.2 zooms), they could well turn the tables on Sony. Even if the initial release were 24x36mm, but they announced that future models would have larger sensors and designed their lenses around them, it would have a similar effect - after all, early DSLRs were all crop models too. And it would justify the mount size and associated lens size. Otherwise, Nikon could again find itself starting from behind, against a larger and better-resourced rival.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #277 on: August 06, 2018, 01:31:36 am »

If Nikon came out with a larger sensor, implementing a crop mode to shoot with current lenses via an adapter and designing new lenses around the larger sensor (e.g. 20-40mm, 32-90mm and 90-260mm f/2.8 or f/3.2 zooms), they could well turn the tables on Sony.

Indeed. But then again, I believe that both Nikon and Canon have a clear opportunity to turn the tables on Sony even without going with a larger sensor.

The actual market share of Sony is probably less than 1% of all full frame users out there. Tiny in the grand scheme of things.

The game is only just starting and a vast majority of FF users will stay with the platform that makes it easiest to use their existing glass while offering the best future proofness in a pure mirrorless world. Sony enabled that to some extend for Canon users who were willing to sacrifice some convenience and performance for better sensors/more compact bodies... The same didn't really happen that much for Nikon till date. There is still huge potential for much better native adapters and the size of the mount will be a good measure of future proofness for new mirrorless lenses.

Besides, although Sony has delivered solid cameras with the a7/a9 and have demonstrated great innovation drive, they are far from perfect. They are great compared to the very flawed first iterations, but still half baked compared to what most photographers would like them to be (ergonomics, EVF, ruggedness, battery life,...).

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:42:40 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #278 on: August 06, 2018, 02:15:44 am »

I thought it was common knowledge that Nikon were launching their mirrorless camera with an adapter to allow current Nikon users to use their existing lens range on the new mirrorless mount. If that is true then the new mirrorless sensor must be no bigger than 24 by 36 or the lenses will not cover it.
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32BT

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #279 on: August 06, 2018, 02:22:33 am »

There's an interesting notion: pure mirrorless world.

Will that ever happen?

A larger format wouldn't make much economical sense me thinks. A larger mount however enables more effective ibis. Perhaps though they added some fancy tricks with sensor movement to accomodate a higher res square image for example, though that strikes me as more gimmicky than sensible and wouldn't dictate a larger mount.
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