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Author Topic: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra  (Read 2198 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2018, 01:50:07 PM »

Appears it isn't a problem for that other software product. Next be useful to try i1Profiler (I don't use it for display profiling but it should allow creation of a LUT?).

Could be useful, but also painful -it's "procedure-heavy". I can't because I'm on El Capitan, so whatever I find wouldn't matter. But perhaps the more salient point is that an operating system change could interact differently with similar but different third-party products, depending on factors we aren't informed of yet.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 01:57:50 PM »

But perhaps the more salient point is that an operating system change could interact differently with similar but different third-party products, depending on factors we aren't informed of yet.
They can if there's a bug in the software  ;D
I'll look at i1P on my MacBook Pro display in a bit, I'm running 10.13.4.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Mark D Segal

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2018, 02:00:59 PM »

They can if there's a bug in the software  ;D
I'll look at i1P on my MacBook Pro display in a bit, I'm running 10.13.4.

Maybe a bug, but maybe an incompatibility of some kind we are unaware of. I'd remain agnostic on this one without more compelling information.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 02:13:37 PM »

Maybe a bug, but maybe an incompatibility of some kind we are unaware of. I'd remain agnostic on this one without more compelling information.
Just built a LUT profile in i1Profiler for the MacBook Pro. Something IS wrong. Photoshop and Preview and Safari, all with the same ProPhoto RGB image appear slightly differently from each other. IF I reload the original ICC profile, they all match.
EDIT: plugged in the NEC, all three applications match!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 02:27:06 PM by andrewrodney »
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Andrew Rodney
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Czornyj

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2018, 09:07:06 AM »

Just built a LUT profile in i1Profiler for the MacBook Pro. Something IS wrong. Photoshop and Preview and Safari, all with the same ProPhoto RGB image appear slightly differently from each other. IF I reload the original ICC profile, they all match.
EDIT: plugged in the NEC, all three applications match!

You’re right - Preview looks different with LUT display profiles, it’s limiting the image gamut to sRGB. In Safari, PS and when you preview images by pressing space key all looks the same, and Preview renders image the same when matrix type profile is attached to display.

Alexey.Danilchenko

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2018, 10:16:04 AM »

You’re right - Preview looks different with LUT display profiles, it’s limiting the image gamut to sRGB. In Safari, PS and when you preview images by pressing space key all looks the same, and Preview renders image the same when matrix type profile is attached to display.

Images saved in sRGB still look different in PS and Preview - I don't think it's that. Attached Jpeg opened n PS and Preview (PS on the left). Monitor profile by basICColor v4 LUT
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digitaldog

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2018, 10:31:32 AM »

Images saved in sRGB still look different in PS and Preview - I don't think it's that. Attached Jpeg opened n PS and Preview (PS on the left). Monitor profile by basICColor v4 LUT
On my end, all three applications look different. I suspect PS is “correct” but no way would I use such a profile (or can with my Spectaview) anyway.
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Andrew Rodney
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Alexey.Danilchenko

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2018, 03:36:05 PM »

On my end, all three applications look different. I suspect PS is “correct” but no way would I use such a profile (or can with my Spectaview) anyway.
PS/Lightroom are correct - verified by opening the same file on calibrated monitor in Windows. So far the problem is in MacOS built in applications it seems.
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eronald

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2018, 09:40:36 AM »

I'm not at all confident we know yet where the problem is. If BasicColor's core profiling algorithms haven't changed over the past several years but Mac OSX versions have, it's not clear the problem is with BasicColor. However that said, the way these things are supposed to work - my understanding - is that roughly six months or so before Apple plans to issue an OS update, they provide the SDK to outside developers for them to do the needful for ensuring compliance of their applications with the forthcoming OS release. Has this been happening? If not, why not, but if yes, did BasicColor comply, or were they in a position where they could not comply? Lots of things to understand before coming to any conclusions. In the final analysis it could be useful for a viable option Matrix/LUT to be maintained, but not clear to me what would be needed to assure that. While the difference between the two may not matter much for high-end well-linearized displays, I can imagine it still be useful in other contexts. Even with my PA271 I know I achieved a more satisfactory profile with the LUT option, at that time on Snow Leopard and now on El Capitan.

It sounds like users are caught between a rock and a hard place - if you use LUT screen profiling your Apple software previews are bad, if you don't use it you have a bad profile for PS if your monitor doesn't play well with a matrix-shaper.

It looks like we might go back to the bad days when users have to specify the desired screen profile for their image editing app.

Frankly, if a choice is forced on me I'd go for the bad previews and nice Basiccolor profile.

Edmund
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Mark D Segal

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2018, 09:45:03 AM »


Frankly, if a choice is forced on me I'd go for the bad previews and nice Basiccolor profile.

Edmund

So how to you properly edit a photo under soft-proofing with a bad preview?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2018, 12:43:27 PM »

So how to you properly edit a photo under soft-proofing with a bad preview?
You can't and you shouldn’t. And it isn't just soft proofing that would be affected, it would affect all previews under color management. Just switch to Matrix profile IF the issue affects you. Far lesser of two evils!
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Andrew Rodney
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Mark D Segal

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2018, 12:47:35 PM »

You can't and you shouldn’t. And it isn't just soft proofing that would be affected, it would affect all previews under color management. Just switch to Matrix profile IF the issue affects you. Far lesser of two evils!

Makes sense.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2018, 12:52:39 PM »

Makes sense.
Mostly because the alternative proposed and for the sake of so called Apple software previews, doesn't.  :o
Photoshop and Lightroom to name two image editing applications seem fine. Preview, Safari, two app's that are not used to edit images are affected by this bug. IF you use those applications to 'edit' and view images, then perhaps you want to use the profile type suggested which still doesn't work properly! So yeah, that mindset doesn't make a lick of sense to me.
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2018, 12:59:36 PM »

if you use LUT screen profiling your Apple software previews are bad, if you don't use it you have a bad profile for PS if your monitor doesn't play well with a matrix-shaper.
Bodes well for a display that operates fine and dandy ("plays well") with Matrix profiles; like my SpectraView!
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2018, 08:05:13 AM »

Bodes well for a display that operates fine and dandy ("plays well") with Matrix profiles; like my SpectraView!
And then you don't see any change between the different applications?

It seems that the problem is aggravated if you use a two monitor setup. Anyone tested?
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Stefan Ohlsson
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digitaldog

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Re: No LUT-profiles in Sierra and High Sierra
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2018, 11:37:11 AM »

And then you don't see any change between the different applications?
No and I am running a dual display system.
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Andrew Rodney
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