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Author Topic: LR 7.3 BUGS  (Read 8946 times)

rdonson

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2018, 10:24:41 AM »

I’m with you, Mark. With each release with new features we all feel like beta testers.

I’m just happy the Adobe doesn’t build software for aircraft.
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Ron

digitaldog

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2018, 10:25:52 AM »

I’m with you, Mark. With each release with new features we all feel like beta testers.
Which isn't true of virtually all software?
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Miles

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2018, 10:37:14 AM »

For some time I have observed posts on Adobe updates, noting every issue that can be found and bashing their quality control.  Having spent much of my career using various electronic systems in corporate america from extremely large corporations as well as small local companies and municipalities, I am amazed at how good their updates actually are.  In banking, which you would think would be top tier as far as quality control, there are always issues with an update.  In payroll, I have seen updates which prevented the issuance of W-2's in a timely manner.  And don't get me started with products designed for municipalities...  Without going into details, I can't think of an upgrade that didn't have problems, some major.  Also, many of these systems require you to buy a certain computer for access, none of this "I think I will buy this xyz component because it is cutting edge or I can save $50" attitude.  I pretty much buy what I want, plug it in and Adobe still works!   :D

We should make Adobe aware of the bugs.  Recognize also they are not resting on their prior success, but continue to bring forward new and useful tools.  At the price I am paying for the capabilities of the software I am receiving, I am very satisfied and have been for years.  I only wish other companies were this good.

Miles

 
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rdonson

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2018, 10:46:11 AM »

Which isn't true of virtually all software?

My experiences are likely limited. I find few bugs with Apple software, including FCP X 10.4. I haven’t found nearly as many bugs with Photomatix Pro, Aurora HDR, Luminar, etc. or even Photoshop.

What is irritating about Lightroom bugs is that they are breaking things that previously worked.
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Ron

digitaldog

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2018, 11:23:56 AM »


What is irritating about Lightroom bugs is that they are breaking things that previously worked.
Quite common with lots of software products. As a plug-in developer for PS, that product is not immune from the exact behavior you applied to LR. This comment is based on nearly two decades of experience (engineering is expensive to fix bugs that appear out of “nowhere”)!
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

rdonson

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2018, 02:52:53 PM »

...and my comments are based on over 20 years of software development in Fortune 100 companies and testing with automated tools.  These things do not need to escape testing.
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Ron

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2018, 06:14:31 PM »

So to go back to colour, hit V. Then use Undo to return to the B&W sliders. It's a workaround for now.

And it avoids cluttering up the history, so it's not a bad thing anyway. I've always done it like that, as it happens.

Jeremy
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JeanMichel

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2018, 10:28:53 AM »

And it avoids cluttering up the history, so it's not a bad thing anyway. I've always done it like that, as it happens.

Jeremy
Thanks again for the note about "V". It is unfortunate that the sliders return to all zeroes, but no big deal as it just means picking the last adjustment in history. And since my b&w conversions are always on a virtual copy, the new way of working simply becomes the new norm.
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ButchM

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2018, 12:03:10 PM »

In time for what? Because someone in management sets artificial deadlines to release versions and the staff can't make sure all the QA is done before the product goes to market? This has become a traditional trait, where updates cause things that used to work to be broken, not get fixed before release because of insufficiently thorough testing, and then it takes the customers to find out and complain. This seems to me like not a good MO, and it would take a certain amount of solid argument to convince me it can't be done better.

Yes ...wasn't that one of the key selling features of switching to the CC subscription model? It was too tough and unfair for the engineers to try and meet an arbitrary date on the calendar. With CC, they wouldn't be held to hard and fast deadlines and new features would be delivered when they were ready. Seems they still suffer from self-imposed deadlines and deliver new versions that haven't been fully vetted.
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ButchM

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2018, 12:10:33 PM »

Quite common with lots of software products. As a plug-in developer for PS, that product is not immune from the exact behavior you applied to LR. This comment is based on nearly two decades of experience (engineering is expensive to fix bugs that appear out of “nowhere”)!

While I do not expect every version release to be pure perfection, it's quite clear whatever standards Adobe has in place could be expanded or improved. Many of the issues with Lightroom over the past couple of years were not insignificant outliers that were not revealed until a broader user base discovered them.
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digitaldog

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2018, 12:21:18 PM »

While I do not expect every version release to be pure perfection, it's quite clear whatever standards Adobe has in place could be expanded or improved.
Remove Adobe, add any number of companies, the generalization is true. 
Quote
Many of the issues with Lightroom over the past couple of years were not insignificant outliers that were not revealed until a broader user base discovered them.
Do provide a competitive matrix after defining what is insignificant and how many were detected by 'broader user base', then we can examine actual data.
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Andrew Rodney
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2018, 12:36:45 PM »

Remove Adobe, add any number of companies, the generalization is true.  Do provide a competitive matrix after defining what is insignificant and how many were detected by 'broader user base', then we can examine actual data.

Andrew, I've never been terribly enthused by that idea that just because companies W, X, Y do such and such, it's also OK for company Z. Maybe all of them need to improve a bit.

That said, I think basically Adobe does a pretty good job of it. If any one were able or willing to research the evidence you are calling for, my prediction is that there would be slim pickings. The annoyance doesn't come from quantity, it comes from a disconnect between user expectations and occurrence, even if the latter are few in number. It's natural to wonder why, if a commonly used item X worked well before and doesn't now, that it wasn't picked-up in QA before release, especially if it weren't an arcane issue that happens only on very unusual system configurations. For these, it's reasonable to expect that only user experience would pick them up.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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ButchM

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2018, 01:01:18 PM »

Remove Adobe, add any number of companies, the generalization is true.  Do provide a competitive matrix after defining what is insignificant and how many were detected by 'broader user base', then we can examine actual data.

Andrew ... you, yourself have lamented on more than a few issues that new releases from Adobe have caused. Like I said, I don't expect pure perfection from Adobe or any other developer, but Adobe is more than capable of stepping up their game in this respect and doing a better job.
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digitaldog

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2018, 01:11:21 PM »

Andrew ... you, yourself have lamented on more than a few issues that new releases from Adobe have caused.
Yes I have. And it's virtually no different with other software products. The difference is, I'm not stating, without data, that LR is worse or better than other products. As someone who's used Adobe products for 28 years, I don't believe they are worse or better than (fill in the blank) software.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

digitaldog

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2018, 01:12:57 PM »

Andrew, I've never been terribly enthused by that idea that just because companies W, X, Y do such and such, it's also OK for company Z. Maybe all of them need to improve a bit.
I didn't say it was OK, I said it's not a perfect software world and all software has bugs. It cost some of us, who have to pay engineers to fix the issues more than others who just use the product. I don't like it, I accept it, I find bitching about it doesn't really help. I find being an unpaid beta tester (for Adobe since Photoshop 2.5) at least attempts to aid the companies in fixing their bugs but I don't expect that will always occur.
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Andrew Rodney
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2018, 01:50:55 PM »

I didn't say it was OK, I said it's not a perfect software world and all software has bugs. It cost some of us, who have to pay engineers to fix the issues more than others who just use the product. I don't like it, I accept it, I find bitching about it doesn't really help. I find being an unpaid beta tester (for Adobe since Photoshop 2.5) at least attempts to aid the companies in fixing their bugs but I don't expect that will always occur.

I agree with you - it's not a perfect software world. It's not a perfect anything in life and of course we have to accept that. But I wouldn't classify discussion about things that aren't working as "bitching"; nor would I classify some degree of lamentation or critique about things that aren't working as "bitching". The discussion and the lamentation/critique are useful for the product providers to notice and evaluate when formulating their forward-looking policies. There are different forums for doing that, this being one of them. The beta testing is of course essential but I don't think it displaces the usefulness of customer commentary.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2018, 02:17:36 PM »

But I wouldn't classify discussion about things that aren't working as "bitching"; nor would I classify some degree of lamentation or critique about things that aren't working as "bitching".
Speaking of bugs in generalities as I've seen isn't useful. Nor is accusing a company of having more than another without data to back it up.
Speaking of specifics is useful and one reason Adobe has a UtoU forum. And then the answer for those who are not on the prerelease is to file a bug report with Adobe or any other company that has such provisions. Specifically for Adobe, one goes here:
https://www.adobe.com/products/wishform.html
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

JeanMichel

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2018, 02:29:23 PM »

It would be (would have been)  helpful if Adobe included all of the changes, and reasons for those, in their release document. They listed the new profiles, moving dehaze, and such but ignored other ones. I m sure that I am not the only user that went: "hey, where is the B&W tab?". I can guess (I am not a programmer) the reason for that, but it would have ben nice to be informed about it. My guess is that the conversion is now done in one of the b&w profiles, and that the generic one that was the default in the old tab was made into the new monochrome profile.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2018, 02:34:32 PM »

Speaking of bugs in generalities as I've seen isn't useful. Nor is accusing a company of having more than another without data to back it up.
Speaking of specifics is useful and one reason Adobe has a UtoU forum. And then the answer for those who are not on the prerelease is to file a bug report with Adobe or any other company that has such provisions. Specifically for Adobe, one goes here:
https://www.adobe.com/products/wishform.html

Andrew, people here have been raising specific issues and no-one accused Adobe of having more than others; Adobe just happens to be the company of interest here because it's there application being discussed. There's no reason why discussion of apparent bugs or anomalies needs to be confined to Adobe's bug reporting system. This forum is a legitimate place to discuss user experience as are other forums. I do agree, however, that the most useful place to report an apparent bug is where you indicate - that gets to them directly and we know they read it. It's any one's guess who reads what here.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: LR 7.3 BUGS
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2018, 02:45:24 PM »

Andrew, people here have been raising specific issues and no-one accused Adobe of having more than others...
My impression from post #30. I'm told there this is all quite clear yet no data to back it up.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"
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