Is it time for Red Flag laws?

[texshooter]

Judges are now confiscating guns from people who "act strange."  Good idea or slippery slope?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/02/police-legally-seizing-guns-under-red-flag-laws.html

[Two23]

I'm a very "pro gun" person, but think these laws are a good thing.  As is, we have to wait until someone does something before any action can be taken.  I serve on my state's grand jury and we had a case where a nutty woman fortified her house into a bunker and bought about $30,000 worth of guns and gear.  I think she even had a couple of full automatic (completely legal in many Midwestern & Western states) plus a .50 Barrett, along with bullet resistant clothing etc.  She had a teen age son whom she home schooled.  There was no dad in the home or in the kid's life at all.  The woman was a total nut case (I suspect schizophrenic) but had no medical record.  They attended a small church in Iowa, and the people there were so afraid of her they had an armed guard at the services!  She & son hadn't broken any laws, so nothing could be done.  Finally the son went mildly nuts and shot at the (empty) church a few times with a wimpy little pistol, and that was enough to arrest him and then his mother for child endangerment.  A major problem was probably prevented.  Woman is now judged mentally ill and all guns removed.  Son is in protective custody and being "reprogrammed" back to reality.  A "red flag" law would have been a good thing here, but hell if I'd be the one to go to her house and ask for the guns!

Closer to home, I have (had) two teenage sons who went through a brief but dark & moody stretch.  I got them counseling, and in the meantime I locked up all guns, removed a key part from each (e.g. trigger or bolt) and hid them in the attic, and kept all ammo locked in my car (over 50 pounds!)  Also kept track of the kitchen knives etc. daily.  There were no problems and everything has since worked out OK.  The big difference was there was an involved dad in the home--me!  NO WAY my wife could have handled those boys on her own.  Few women can, and THAT is the problem in a nutshell.  American media does not want to talk about that.



Kent in SD

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/04/01/florida-chinese-student-deported-guns-ucf-orig-cws.cnn

Student deported for visa violation

Wenliang Sun, a 26-year-old Chinese University of Central Florida student who made no threats but had alarmed a roommate with his behavior and bought two semiautomatic rifles, will be deported for an unrelated visa issue.Source: CNN

[Robert Roaldi]

People have to prove minimum competence before they're allowed to drive a car. Why should gun ownership not be subject to some scrutiny? It is the case in much of the rest of the world, and they (we) seem to get along just fine. Here in Canada, anyone who wants to hunt can arrange to purchase a weapon after a process that's akin to passing a driver's test. Any farmer who needs a varmint rifle can get one (in fact, most of them already do). 

[texshooter]

Red Flag laws may be just the thing that saves the Second Amendment.

[RSL]

In spite of hysterical left-wing fake news, the second amendment isn't in any danger. These people make it sound as if shouting at your congressman or senator can induce him to change the Constitution. What actually happens is that people rush out and buy guns and join the NRA. But these people aren't bright enough to understand that their screaming is backfiring on them.

[Otto Phocus]

"You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered,
but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered"  -- Lyndon B. Johnson.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...people rush out and buy guns and join the NRA...

Two things happened after the recent high school shooting in Florida:

1. Contributions to NRA doubled

2. The shooter has been receiving tons of fan email, from all over the world (!?)

[RSL]

Why should gun ownership not be subject to some scrutiny? It is the case in much of the rest of the world, and they (we) seem to get along just fine.

Yes. Until they're attacked and US gunslingers have to come to their rescue.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

[OmerV]

In spite of hysterical left-wing fake news, the second amendment isn't in any danger. These people make it sound as if shouting at your congressman or senator can induce him to change the Constitution. What actually happens is that people rush out and buy guns and join the NRA. But these people aren't bright enough to understand that their screaming is backfiring on them.

I'm a liberal and believe the Second Amendment should not be amended. And you are correct, with just the slightest news of gun control, people line up to buy guns. And, every time there is a mass murder, again people line up to buy guns. Of course it is the same impulse in both instances that make people into gun hoarders, fear that their right to gun ownership will be nullified. And again you are correct, the Second Amendment will never go away.

But it is the gun industry that is really benefiting from school shootings. Lets just say that on the face of it, that is bizarre. As for gun owners, I would say 90% are responsible. But here's the thing; what happens to all those guns that are being bought? I mean, millions upon millions of guns are going into our society and, correct me if I'm wrong, very few are actually being used for anything. So where do those guns go when their owners decide they don't want them, say because they want a new model? It would be interesting to track a few thousand guns just to see where they go.

Yeah, I'm for gun control, and while I understand that it seems like a Sisyphean effort, I do believe that gun control awareness in of itself has an educational effect on gun owners. Unfortunately, the sheer quantity of guns in circulation may haunt us for many decades. How much does a bullet proof vest cost, anyway?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

A new victory for gender equality!!!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/04/03/active-shooter-youtube-headquarters-california-police-say/483333002/

Female suspect dead, 4 injured after shooting at YouTube headquarters in California

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

And now something completely different, California is about to create an open season on its police force:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/california-police-force-legislation_us_5ac3c013e4b00fa46f872c28

California Considering Unprecedented Law Restricting Police Firearm Use

[texshooter]

Here are a few red flags from the past 30 mass shooters.

https://www.metro.us/news/map-timeline-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us-since-2000/tmWmll---14WH11UWCww

1. Jeffrey Weise killed 10
    --multiple suicide attempts

2.  Michael McDermott killed 7
    --slashed coworker's leg with a knife, rage disorder

3.  San Marco killed 7
     --talked to herself and walked naked in public

4.  Charles Roberts killed 5
     --pedophile

5.  Sulejman Talovic killed 5
     --juvenile delinquent

6.  Seung-hi Sho killed 32
     --hospitalized for suicidal ideation

7.  Tyler Peterson killed 6
      --no red flags

8.  Robert Hawkins killed 8
     --multiple psychiatric hospitalizations

9.  Charles Thorton killed 5
      --prior assault convictions

10.  Steven Kazmierczak killed 5
        --schizophrenia, suicide attempt

11.  Wesley Hinson killed 5
        --history of death threats

12.  Jiverly Antares killed 14
        --criminal record

13.  Oman Thorton killed 8
        --no red flags

14.  Eduardo Sencion killed 4
        --paranoid schizophrenia

15.  James Holmes killed 12
        --dysphoric mania, homicidal ideation

16.  Wade Michael killed 4
        --white supremacist militia, reckless alcoholic

17.  Adam Lanza killed 27
        --Asperger's syndrome, prior death threats

18.  Kurt Meyers killed 4
        --drunk driver

19.  Aaron Alexis killed 12
        --history of malicious mischief and disorderly conduct

20.  John Zawahri killed 5
        --death threats and bomb building

21.  Pedro Vargas killed 6
        --abused steroids

22.  Don Spirit killed 7
        --wife beater

23.  Dylan Roof killed  9
       --drug addict

24.  Christopher Mercer killed 9
        --asperger's syndrome, stockpiled weapons, suicide attempt

25.  Robert Dear killed 3
        --weapons violations

26.  Syed Farook killed 14
        Islamic Jihadist migrant

27.  Oman Mateen killed 49
       --placed on terrorist watch list for bragging about links to al-Qaeda

28.  Stephen Paddock killed 50
       --mystery

29.  Devin Kelly killed 26
       --animal cruelty

30.  Nicolas Cruz killed 17
       --expelled from school for fighting and online threats

[texshooter]

If you don't want police to shoot you, don't resist arrest. 

[Farmer]

Yes. Until they're attacked and US gunslingers have to come to their rescue.

Military responses have nothing to do with the rates of armed citizenry. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Military responses have nothing to do with the rates of armed citizenry. 

You can't have a pussyfied nation suddenly turning into a fierce army.

[Rand47]

When I was a kid, living rural, every kid I knew had a rifle of some sort, and most had hand guns.  Every pick up truck in town had a rifle rack in the back window, usually parked in town, unlocked.

Yet, there wasn’t the problem(s) we see today.

Makes me wonder what else has changed to produce our current culture.

Maybe something like this becoming the consensus view, whether explicitly, or implicitly through the school system.  A quote by the notable, widely accepted (author of The God Delusion) Oxford scholar Dr. Richard Dawkins:

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.  DNA neither knows nor cares.  DNA just is.  And we dance to its music.”

Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life

[texshooter]

The power to defend oneself from assault, rape, and robbery is worth the small added risk of getting shot by psychopaths.
 Dawkins may be right about the law of the jungle, but he doesn't see the value in this gun culture trade-off.  Americans still do, however.  Thank God (oops, I mean my lucky stars).

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/2/richard-dawkins-infuriates-with-great-shootin-twee/

[Two23]

17.  Adam Lanza killed 27
        --Asperger's syndrome, prior death threats


Asperbergers condition is not associated with violence or aggression.  (I have a degree in medical science and studied this in school, and worked for awhile as an occupational therapist in Lincoln Regional Center (LRC, Lincoln, NE), which is the state mental hospital for the criminally insane.  The death threats are an entirely different matter, of course.


Kent in SD