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Author Topic: Careful out there  (Read 9290 times)

Farmer

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2018, 07:23:30 pm »

Joe, here's an example of what begging the question actually means: "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Look it up. Sorry, but I see this too often and it bugs me. I don't mind changes in the language but I do mind gradual corruptions of it.

Yup.  "petitio principii" - assuming the initial point.  In Russ' example (a classic, like Russ ;-)), the assumption is that the person was beating their wife.  It's a logical fallacy (and also, unfortunately, often deliberately done to set a certain negative tone about someone or something).  It's sort of the opposite of rejecting the premise, where you answer a question without accepting the presented premise, but that's another technique and discussion.

In short, I reckon 99% of the time someone says "begs the questions" they really mean "raises the question".
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Phil Brown

RSL

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2018, 07:57:11 pm »

What Slobodan's saying is especially true if you're pulling a black tripod out of a tripod bag.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2018, 08:32:39 pm »

Okay, good explanations on "begs the question ..." 

I never really thought about that phrase. 
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OmerV

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2018, 09:27:52 pm »

Geez, so now pulling a tripod out of a bag is dangerous. So, we'll soon have kevlar bullet proof photographers' vests with multiple theft proof pockets and comes in traditional khaki and camouflage. Another piece of gear we can debate about, no? Yeah!

texshooter

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2018, 10:23:39 pm »

Good reason to buy a brightly colored tripod.


My go-to camera for street photography. We all know how trigger happy cops can be.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 04:51:20 am by texshooter »
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Farmer

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2018, 10:47:17 pm »

That's awesome :-)
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Phil Brown

texshooter

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2018, 06:05:32 am »

My hunch is I should leave my main cell phone at home, as well.

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Rob C

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2018, 06:25:52 am »

I have a hard time imagining that a tripod would look like a gun to someone who is close enough to be able to use a handgun. It's not as if the officer could think his life was in imminent danger. There had to be a moment or two to assess the situation before firing.

I came across this interesting (violence alert) video: That Vimeo channel, Field of Vision, has several good video shorts, btw.

In other words, the moment you get pulled over you stand a damned good chance of being killed.

And in yet more other words, the cop's expectation of the stopped person trying to kill him is because of the zillion guns the cop knows to be out there in free circulation.

There really is no sound, credible argument but to take the lot of them away from the public.

Rob

PeterAit

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2018, 10:36:52 am »

What? 

How is this a comparison to what I asked?  I don't see where you are going here.

Begging the question means asking a question that implicitly assumes a certain thing is true. For example, "Have you stopped beating your wife" has the implicit assumption that you have, and maybe still are, beaten your wife. Answer either yes or no, and you are damned.
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PeterAit

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2018, 10:44:55 am »

Good thing it was an intra-racial shooting.

Why?

In Minneapolis, a white woman called the cops about a possible intruder. When the cops arrived she ran out to talk to them. One of the cops shot her dead. Black cop, white woman. He was charged with murder in a New York second.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2018, 11:09:49 am »

Why?...

Because the city would be burning by now, had it been a white cop, black photographer.

Tony Ovens

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2018, 01:54:54 pm »

Re No. 24 above. Not such a good idea this one:


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texshooter

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2018, 02:40:20 pm »

Re No. 24 above. Not such a good idea this one:

Ok then, maybe this would work.


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Rob C

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2018, 03:20:41 pm »

Ok then, maybe this would work.




Germ warfare: Pluto, the rabid dog.

John Camp

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2018, 03:46:15 pm »

I worked as a street reporter on major metro papers for more than twenty years, and did a lot of police reporting. In the past couple of decades I have on occasion given speeches to police groups, and have said without much objection that I thought perhaps a third of cops shouldn't be on the street. They have issues with what they see as their own authority, they may be bigots, they are poorly trained, they are not bright enough to be out there, they are burned out, they are very often frightened. When you actually deal with cops on a daily basis, and hear some of the sh*t that some of them actually believe, there is good reason to be nervous around them. I'm a tall white-haired white guy and I drive expensive cars but when I'm stopped by the cops (in the past I've been a little heavy on the gas pedal) I keep my hands on top of the steering wheel until they ask me for my driver's license, and then I say, "It's in my wallet" so they know what I'm doing when I go after it. When you are stopped by a cop, you are in serious danger. And when the cop realizes he's dealing with somebody who poses no danger, they often show signs of relief: even a routine traffic stop heavily stresses them.

Give all of that, I have to say in this instance that the tripod could have been mistaken for a gun at a glance -- especially a high tech black rifle of the kind used in recent massacres. And a cop might believe he has only a second or two to decide what to do. A more famous version of this incident took place in Iraq where a well-known television (video) photographer raced up to a combat scene, jumped out of his car with a large TV camera, pointed it at a helicopter, and was quickly killed by a helicopter door gunner (IIRC). The TV camera didn't look exactly like, but looked somewhat like, an RPG launcher. The door gunner felt he had about 1 second to make the call. The photographer was incredibly stupid to do what he did, and he died for it.

I often get tired of these news stories about how awful the cops are when people shot by cops were actually fleeing after a crime, they have something in their hands, and it's dark. The cops are scared, too. God knows enough of them killed. So don't run. You're running because you think they are going to put you in jail? Then go to jail -- its better than getting killed. Obviously, young black men are in more danger from the cops than tall white-haired white guys -- it goes back to the bigotry, the poor training, the fear, the burn-out -- but the rule still stands: give up. Hands over your head, nothing in them.

We're living in a time of increasing international and domestic terrorism, and the cops are getting it from all directions -- if they over-react, they're vilified. If they under-react, they're vilified. If they react properly, but something goes wrong, they're vilified. So they're on edge, all the time. I can only repeat was the OP said: Be careful out there.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2018, 03:50:01 pm »

I'm glad I don't carry around a cucumber or a cop might think I might rape him or her.:o

It's clear the cop in the OP's PetaPixel article knows a lot more about the odd shapes guns can take than most photographers and most people in general. Now a smartphone in hand is seen as a gun so I'ld like to see what gun design looks like that.

A photographer's tripod now looks like some weirdly shaped AR 15 machine gun. With law enforcement everything looks dangerous. Shoot first and ask questions later.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2018, 03:56:39 pm »

... young black men are in more danger from the cops than tall white-haired white guys -- it goes back to the bigotry, the poor training, the fear, the burn-out...

... or statistics... which group is more likely to have a gun and pose a threat to them.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2018, 04:10:22 pm »

... or statistics... which group is more likely to have a gun and pose a threat to them.

Photographers? :)
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Robert

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2018, 04:11:29 pm »

... or statistics... which group is more likely to have a gun and pose a threat to them.

What are the stats on the amount of corrupt cops in law enforcement when most protect and conceal corruption with that thin blue line? Since there's no stats for that because it's impossible to count, what is the chance an African American who as you say are seen to have a gun and pose a threat aren't just shot on sight and a throw down weapon provided. There's actual video evidence that happens.

I actually encountered a corrupt cop in my fast growing small town when I called the police on a neighbor's harassing behavior who was a recovering meth addict and now employed as a maintenance man where I told dispatch not to have the cop knock on my door and point me out as the caller.

The cop did it anyway and now my life turned to sh*t afterward. However, since this was the first time I called the cops on anyone I got to see a strange and scary dynamic facing me as it was just me and the cop and no witnesses. He could've shot me with the neighbor backing his story up because the cop happened to be a buddy of his. It's a small town you see.

If you lived in those kind of conditions would you push the situation and demand the cop do his job and start arguing with him or run away to get out of that situation? You don't know it until you live it. I got a glimpse of what African Americans must feel when they encounter police where there are no witnesses.
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DP

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Re: Careful out there
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2018, 04:50:17 pm »

I actually encountered a corrupt cop

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« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 04:55:03 am by Jeremy Roussak »
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