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Author Topic: Colorbyte's lost dongle policy is repaying software - does this only concern me?  (Read 15705 times)

Mark D Segal

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Sounds like a good idea for a LuLa review Mark! So while I'm not a massive fan of CB's profiles, they DO offer free profiles for ANY paper; Qimage? Difference in Dither?

Yes, they do offer profiles for any paper. Whether they are "free" I suppose depends on how one defines "free". One may also think this service is bundled into the entry fee. Perhaps the point is that one doesn't pay additional charges for the service.

As for a review, yes, decent idea, but we'd need to determine whether it would add value to those already done: Michael did a quite extensive one back in 2009 (ImagePrint Review; Mark Dubovoy did another in 2011 and more recently Kevin did an overview in 2016. John has advised that they've re-engineered how the software handles the printing process down to the dot, so there may be something more worthwhile to dig into.   
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Yes, they do offer profiles for any paper. Whether they are "free" I suppose depends on how one defines "free". One may also think this service is bundled into the entry fee.
True! For what they charge, you could buy a lot of profiles (maybe a Spectrophotometer!).
The review would be more a challenge between IP and Qimage.
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Mark D Segal

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Yup - I see where you're coming from and something to consider. It would, however, be quite a commitment of time and effort - and there would need to be some arrangements with both companies.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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loganross

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I think the moral of the story is: Imageprint is a great product/service option, but there are perfectly viable options should one desire (including if there are concerns about the colorbyte licensing model).  Given services like Chromix, and others, icc proofing should not be a financial concern. 
Yup - I see where you're coming from and something to consider. It would, however, be quite a commitment of time and effort - and there would need to be some arrangements with both companies.
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Mark D Segal

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Fair enough - and I should mention that if one idoesn't want to print out of one's image editing application, there are other user-friendly solutions - for example LaserSoft Imaging's PrinTao application I reviewed on this site, or Mirage, neither of which need a dongle; and they are just as concerned about piracy as any other software vendor big or small.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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loganross

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Agreed. I will throw QImage into the mix since I recently discovered it for myself :)

Fair enough - and I should mention that if one idoesn't want to print out of one's image editing application, there are other user-friendly solutions - for example LaserSoft Imaging's PrinTao application I reviewed on this site, or Mirage, neither of which need a dongle; and they are just as concerned about piracy as any other software vendor big or small.
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Ryan Mack

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Fair enough - and I should mention that if one idoesn't want to print out of one's image editing application, there are other user-friendly solutions - for example LaserSoft Imaging's PrinTao application I reviewed on this site, or Mirage, neither of which need a dongle; and they are just as concerned about piracy as any other software vendor big or small.

The next version of IP (IP Black) is slated to include a new B&W printing mode for Canons (the Epson-focused B&W mode in IP 10 doesn't work on Canon). If you're going to do a new review I would wait for IP Black to include a comparison of QImage vs IP Black for B&W printing.
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deanwork

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Will the IP software allow you to plug in your I1 spectro in order to precisely linearize your monochrome workflow and remove all the color inks if you want to do that, or tone exactly to the degree you want ? If it doesn’t it’s totally worthless to me. I have been doing this with True Black and White rip from Bouhaus for about 8 years now on the Canons for a fraction of the price, and with  QTR for Epson platform for half the price of TBW for twice that long.


The next version of IP (IP Black) is slated to include a new B&W printing mode for Canons (the Epson-focused B&W mode in IP 10 doesn't work on Canon). If you're going to do a new review I would wait for IP Black to include a comparison of QImage vs IP Black for B&W printing.
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Mark D Segal

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Agreed. I will throw QImage into the mix since I recently discovered it for myself :)

If you are on Windows that's fine, but for those of us on OSX it's not an option. QTR is ambidextrous however.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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loganross

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I Believe that QImage One is on Mac and PC.  My understanding is that it is the same core as QImage Ultimate, but with a more streamlined interface.

If you are on Windows that's fine, but for those of us on OSX it's not an option. QTR is ambidextrous however.
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PeterAit

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They've baked their anti-piracy solution into the code base - to replace it with something else isn't just replace a few lines.  Plus to switch it now, you'd have 2 different solution methods in the field, as in some folks have a dongle, some folks have _____.  Online activation would require adding in logic that looks to the clock and makes sure you can't roll it backwards.  Plus you'd have to constantly ping online to verify that the machine is the only one activated.  Are you sure you want your print stations constantly polling online?  Wouldn't you block their internet access, just to keep them running with zero change.

Here's a case in point.  To implement a new method of copy protection, ColorByte would be wise to make it Windows 10 only.  That way they can leverage things in the latest OS.  But then you're at Microsoft's mercy because you'll be getting every Windows 10 update even if it crashes your setup, because the computer will have to always be connected to the internet.  Then we'd wish for the dongle based solution because you can run your old printer in XP with the drivers that just work, with zero chance things change or get screwed up.  It just keeps printing the same amazing colors, week after month after year.

Yes, the replacement cost for just the 'dongle' is the cost of the full software package.  Because with just that dongle, you can sell a computer with ColorByte software loaded and it'll work forever.

I'm sorry if I come off mean, but this is a business decision they need to stick to.  Otherwise, every week another person 'lost their dongle' and they saw on LuLa that so-and-so got theirs replaced for cheap.  Maybe this is a time to test out some of the other RIP packages, or Lightroom, or the Epson/Canon/HP print utility.

-Joe

This is not correct. The code to check a dongle might be 8 lines (spoken as a long-term coder). The code to go online and check the software serial # against the database would be about the same. And the software could (should) give the user a grace period to keep using the program if the internet is out, or whatever.
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enduser

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When, a few posts back, I brought up Qimage, I was suggesting that a marketing strategy might be a useful substitute for a dongle. Who knows really, but consultations with other vendors and marketing specialists might reveal another way.  To test one against the other is bound to reveal technical differences not really related to the selling and support regimes.
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Rhossydd

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I talked to John; answer on the phone call:
- this is our policy
- you could sell that dongle in reality, and just make this up, so we cant send you a new dongle
- go search for the dongle more, if you dont want to rebuy
Yes, a tough policy. Understandable to an extent, but not exactly customer friendly.

As the dongle is a physical item, is it's loss covered by any insurance you have ? A modest excess would be a more acceptable cost.
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Mark D Segal

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Yes, a tough policy. Understandable to an extent, but not exactly customer friendly.

As the dongle is a physical item, is it's loss covered by any insurance you have ? A modest excess would be a more acceptable cost.

Paul, I've thought about this and I don't think it's the least bit understandable. Maybe there was a time when a physical device was needed to protect from illicit transfer of software, but since those days other ways have been developed that allow medium size software vendors to do so; if they can do it, these guys can do it, especially taking into account the information that Peter Ait posted here. There are pros and cons to the several approaches vendors use, but if a company opts for preserving a dated technology that embeds risk of loss, I think it reasonable to expect that its management would show some accommodation to its customers. You have a point that insurance is one approach, but my household coverage, for example, wouldn't cut it. It's designed for major loss, as are many such insurance policies. Hence the deductible is high and once one makes a claim the rate is likely to go up on renewal; insurance companies are there to maximize premium income and minimize payouts, so not necessarily ideal recourse.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rhossydd

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I don't think it's the least bit understandable.
If you look at it from the supplier's side, it's understandable. As they say, anyone could claim they've lost the dongle, buy a replacement for a nominal sum and sell it on. You'd only have to do it once and you've got almost free software.

I don't like the idea of dongle protection, but I see why it's used.

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You have a point that insurance is one approach, but my household coverage, for example, wouldn't cut it.
Well that's down to individual policies and their small print. If you have a major investment in dongle protected software it would be prudent to ensure that you are insured for it's loss/damage/theft like any other significant item. I'm pretty sure you can buy professional photographic cover in the UK covers such risks.
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Ernst Dinkla

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The next version of IP (IP Black) is slated to include a new B&W printing mode for Canons (the Epson-focused B&W mode in IP 10 doesn't work on Canon). If you're going to do a new review I would wait for IP Black to include a comparison of QImage vs IP Black for B&W printing.

One should explore and describe B&W printing with Qimage again as things have changed over time with Qimage Ultimate's color management when greyscale images are loaded. For Qimage One it will be needed too. At some point I had QTR made B&W profiles in use with Qimage CM while the Z3100 was in B&W driver mode.  This is still possible but with some tweaks on the image files. Today it could well be that the better color profiling for HP Zs as discussed here lately may suit B&W printing in color mode with Qimage One and Ultimate as well. The GCR/UCR in the HP Z media presets is reducing color in B&W to a level other printers do not know.

Simply throwing greyscale images at QImage and IP may not do Qimage justice, there are not much B&W dedicated features in Qimage but a workflow that aims at good B&W prints should still be possible.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Mark D Segal

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If you look at it from the supplier's side, it's understandable. As they say, anyone could claim they've lost the dongle, buy a replacement for a nominal sum and sell it on. You'd only have to do it once and you've got almost free software.

I don't like the idea of dongle protection, but I see why it's used.
Well that's down to individual policies and their small print. If you have a major investment in dongle protected software it would be prudent to ensure that you are insured for it's loss/damage/theft like any other significant item. I'm pretty sure you can buy professional photographic cover in the UK covers such risks.

Paul, it's only understandable if you think there are no preferable options and you think being uncompromising with your customers is the best way to win friends and influence people, and you think your product is so superior that you can stake out such positions and remain a winner. Otherwise, it makes no sense.

Yes, one can schedule items in a household insurance policy, but look at the cost. How many different papers do most of us regularly use? I could probably buy at least one custom profile per year for the likely additional premium. I use so much software that if I needed a dongle for each application I would have a bag full and a large annual premium increment. That's why the world has moved on...........
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rhossydd

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it's only understandable if you think there are no preferable options
It's understandable because IT IS how they sell their software.
It may well be smarter for them to sell it differently, but that's their business model they've chosen and selling cheap replacement dongles doesn't make sense for them: so understandable, but that doesn't mean I think it's a good idea.

Quote
Yes, one can schedule items in a household insurance policy, but look at the cost.
You just need to choose a suitable policy. I've been through several different options over the years as my requirements have changed and insurer's T&Cs have changed.
My last professional cover was cheaper than adding photo kit to a domestic policy. That policy covered everything and yes I did check about cover for my dongle for GMB/X-Rite kit.
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loganross

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 I have found B&W prints using QImage/Custom profiles on a Canon Pro 1000, to be absolutely outstanding.  Note that I have found The printer's B&W mode to be the same, especially after taking the brief time to create a custom media type for my preferred paper and letting the printer perform a unique color calibration for that paper.

 :)
One should explore and describe B&W printing with Qimage again as things have changed over time with Qimage Ultimate's color management when greyscale images are loaded. For Qimage One it will be needed too. At some point I had QTR made B&W profiles in use with Qimage CM while the Z3100 was in B&W driver mode.  This is still possible but with some tweaks on the image files. Today it could well be that the better color profiling for HP Zs as discussed here lately may suit B&W printing in color mode with Qimage One and Ultimate as well. The GCR/UCR in the HP Z media presets is reducing color in B&W to a level other printers do not know.

Simply throwing greyscale images at QImage and IP may not do Qimage justice, there are not much B&W dedicated features in Qimage but a workflow that aims at good B&W prints should still be possible.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Mark D Segal

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It's understandable because IT IS how they sell their software.
It may well be smarter for them to sell it differently, but that's their business model they've chosen and selling cheap replacement dongles doesn't make sense for them: so understandable, but that doesn't mean I think it's a good idea.
You just need to choose a suitable policy. I've been through several different options over the years as my requirements have changed and insurer's T&Cs have changed.
My last professional cover was cheaper than adding photo kit to a domestic policy. That policy covered everything and yes I did check about cover for my dongle for GMB/X-Rite kit.

Yup - at that narrow scope of "understandability" sure, and we agree from a broader perspective not a good idea.

I won't get into what choosing a suitable insurance policy involves in this country - that takes us too far OT into the nether-nether land of insurance-ese. Speaking from Toronto the less I need to have to do with insurance the happier I am. I'd prefer software that comes without such risks meriting scheduled insurance cover.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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