Phase One in Trouble or Ready to Pivot?

[BernardLanguillier]

P1 not supporting the H6D has given me the chance to re-discover LR and I like it.

It has progressed a lot to the extent that I am wondering if I will keep using C1 for my D850/D5 files.

My favorite converter for crafted images remains Iridient though.

Cheers,
Bernard

[landscapephoto]

The EVF v Optical argument is similar to the Digital v film debate of years gone by. Wether you like it or not, the EVF is the future.

Just as much as there are still analog cameras and film, I would expect the optical viewfinder to stay around, even if it only survives in niche applications. For example, with the large, bright and incredibly detailed optical viewfinder on my MF camera, I can focus manually with high accuracy (I also have very good vision, good hand-eye coordination and practice). I cannot do that using an EVF, the resolution of the viewfinder is too limited.

[BernardLanguillier]

Just as much as there are still analog cameras and film, I would expect the optical viewfinder to stay around, even if it only survives in niche applications. For example, with the large, bright and incredibly detailed optical viewfinder on my MF camera, I can focus manually with high accuracy (I also have very good vision, good hand-eye coordination and practice). I cannot do that using an EVF, the resolution of the viewfinder is too limited.

Interesting... Well designed viewfinders zoom to 100% pixel view when focusing manually, which is much more accurate and consistent than OVF focusing.

This is probably the #1 value of EVFs.

Cheers,
Bernard

[landscapephoto]

Interesting... Well designed viewfinders zoom to 100% pixel view when focusing manually, which is much more accurate and consistent than OVF focusing.

They sure do, but the usefulness of that feature depends on what one's particular photographic practice is.

100% zoom-in, as far as I can imagine, is mainly useful for static subjects and when the camera is on a tripod. The subject is static, the photographer chooses the framing, then fixes the camera and then zooms in on the part of focus to insure perfect sharpness.

The exact opposite is sports photography, where the subject moves all the time. Then, AF is faster than the human operator and properly programmed AF is supposed to recognise the subject and track it.

There is a wealth of subjects in between. For example: fashion models. They don't move very fast and are trained to hold a pause. For these, manual focus is perfect provided the photographer is skilled. One usually uses the camera hand-held, flashes are fast enough that camera shake is not an issue. The photographer takes the camera in his or her hands, frames the subject and focuses on a part that is rarely at a fixed position on the center of the frame. Zoom-in is not really an option, as one loses the framing. AF focus and recompose ( as with true focus from Hasselblad) is another option, but not necessarily faster or more convenient.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

My experience is a bit like this:

• Shooting in the dark, live view is a godbless. You see what you shoot.
• Selectable contrast detect AF-points are great, if you can get a focus lock.
• Selectable PDAF points are a great benefit. Hopefully, the system also uses CDAF to refine focus.
• I don't feel comfortable with focusing systems that don't give me 100% control.

But, I am mostly a landscape/close up/macro kind of shooter.

Best regards
Erik

They sure do, but the usefulness of that feature depends on what one's particular photographic practice is.

100% zoom-in, as far as I can imagine, is mainly useful for static subjects and when the camera is on a tripod. The subject is static, the photographer chooses the framing, then fixes the camera and then zooms in on the part of focus to insure perfect sharpness.

The exact opposite is sports photography, where the subject moves all the time. Then, AF is faster than the human operator and properly programmed AF is supposed to recognise the subject and track it.

There is a wealth of subjects in between. For example: fashion models. They don't move very fast and are trained to hold a pause. For these, manual focus is perfect provided the photographer is skilled. One usually uses the camera hand-held, flashes are fast enough that camera shake is not an issue. The photographer takes the camera in his or her hands, frames the subject and focuses on a part that is rarely at a fixed position on the center of the frame. Zoom-in is not really an option, as one loses the framing. AF focus and recompose ( as with true focus from Hasselblad) is another option, but not necessarily faster or more convenient.

[landscapephoto]

Shooting in the dark, live view is a godbless. You see what you shoot.

I also see better in the dark than the live view of the cameras I have tried. As I said, preferences depend on the photographer and what subjects are photographed. For a product shooter, for example, the viewfinder is of little importance as everything is controlled via tethering. The computer screen becomes the viewfinder...

[danielc]

I also see better in the dark than the live view of the cameras I have tried. As I said, preferences depend on the photographer and what subjects are photographed. For a product shooter, for example, the viewfinder is of little importance as everything is controlled via tethering. The computer screen becomes the viewfinder...

I'll just chuck a quick 2c in here, I used my d850 for the first time last night. I was shooting blue hour seascape so I had both a 3 stop grad ND and a 6 stop ND on the front of the camera.

To my great surprise the live view on the back of the camera was able to completely compensate for these and show me the correctly exposed image preview (albeit with a bit of noise in the live preview.) And the camera was able to focus using live view still.

I was very shocked and looking through the optical viewfinder I couldn't see anything let alone being able to focus using the optics.

Just a quick input for those who haven't used the latest systems. (My d810 was nowhere near this level)

[BJL]

They sure do, but the usefulness of that feature depends on what one's particular photographic practice is.

100% zoom-in, as far as I can imagine, is mainly useful for static subjects and when the camera is on a tripod. The subject is static, the photographer chooses the framing, then fixes the camera and then zooms in on the part of focus to insure perfect sharpness.

What I want for focusing in Live view is (a) zoom region quickly selectable and movable with touch screen (b) "window in window" zoom: the zoomed focusing image occupying about the central half of the EVF image area, withe the framing of the whole image still visible around it.

Is any camera offering this?

[Bo_Dez]

What I want for focusing in Live view is (a) zoom region quickly selectable and movable with touch screen (b) "window in window" zoom: the zoomed focusing image occupying about the central half of the EVF image area, withe the framing of the whole image still visible around it.

Is any camera offering this?

Good thinking, that would be really useful! I find it a bit slow to zoom in, find the focus spot, focus and then zoom out again to view the whole frame. It is slow to the point I rarely use it.

[BernardLanguillier]

What I want for focusing in Live view is (a) zoom region quickly selectable and movable with touch screen (b) "window in window" zoom: the zoomed focusing image occupying about the central half of the EVF image area, withe the framing of the whole image still visible around it.

Is any camera offering this?

That is my understanding of how the GFX works but I haven’t tried myself so I could be wrong.

Cheers,
Bernard

[armand]

On their X-T2 you can have the image and a smaller window with the zoomed focus point next to it, with or without peaking. Focus point is quite easy to move with the joystick.

See here for the older X-T1:


Image from here: https://luminous-landscape.com/living-fuji-x-t1/

[BJL]

Bernard and Armand: Thanks for the pointers to some Fujifilm cameras.

But I have a new complaint/request: I would like reviews to pay more attention to manual focusing capabilities in cameras, especially for EVF cameras and more generally with Live View modes, where there can be a variety of new approaches being tried. Any good sources? Anyone want to write an article on the brave new world of focusing with EVFs?

[danielc]

The D850 has a great feature that you can map to the command dial, a single press of the button inside the command dial zooms to a preset magnification over the selected AF point so you can really quickly check focus. Also works in image review. Personally I don't think that Picture in picture is necessary when it's a quick button click to zoom to 100% and back again.

Regarding live view focussing/ EVF focusing, I haven't done much with the D850 but I did play with the focus peaking mode and it seemed to work really well. The d850 has different sensitivity options so you can select how "fine" the focal point that is displayed by the peaking will be.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Bernard,

I guess that you investigated all the options before buying the H6D. Would be interesting to hear how you arrived at that choice. Just curious, I hope it is OK?

Best regards
Erik

P1 not supporting the H6D has given me the chance to re-discover LR and I like it.

It has progressed a lot to the extent that I am wondering if I will keep using C1 for my D850/D5 files.

My favorite converter for crafted images remains Iridient though.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Jim Kasson]

Bernard and Armand: Thanks for the pointers to some Fujifilm cameras.

But I have a new complaint/request: I would like reviews to pay more attention to manual focusing capabilities in cameras, especially for EVF cameras and more generally with Live View modes, where there can be a variety of new approaches being tried. Any good sources? Anyone want to write an article on the brave new world of focusing with EVFs?

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/manually-focusing-the-fujifilm-gfx-50s/

Variants of this approach work well with most EVFs that have peaking.

Jim

[BernardLanguillier]

I guess that you investigated all the options before buying the H6D. Would be interesting to hear how you arrived at that choice. Just curious, I hope it is OK?

Hi Erik,

I believe already wrote about this end of 2016 when I decided to go for the Hasselblad, but here is a short summary:

1. Price: In Japan the H6D-100c and lens set (taking into account the easiness of finding mint second hand H lenses) was a lot cheaper (around 20,000 US$ cheaper)
2. Body feel/bulk: I used both bodies and I just don't see myself working in the street with the XF. My usage has confirmed that it is not an issue with the H6D. I would include here the bulk and weight of the lenses. Although the Schneider lenses are overall better, their size is IMHO beyond reasonnable,
3. Mirror slam: although I have not done rigorous measurements, I did feel that the XF has a much worse mirror shock absorption
4. Double memory card slots: I still don't understand how P1 could do the huge mistake of not including 2 card slotsfor a body design to shoot mission critical assignments. Granted, it took Hasselblad one full long year to get this feature working on the H6D, but it is now working fine.

On other areas such a touch UI, image quality,... I didn't see any significant difference. They are both great.

There are some additional values for the XF, such as the sismic detector, DoF stacking automation,... but I don't think they come even close to justifying the price premium.

The h6D now works find with my Arca and thanks to a custom bracket I designed and had 3D Printed, the usage of an external battery is not an issue. Its much higher capacity is even preferable in the end.

I would do the same choice if I had to choose again... but I am not 100% sure I would buy into MF again. The D850 is just so good

Now, the H6D has finally reached a good functional and stability level, but it has taken way too long for Hasselblad to deliver this and I cannot say I am happy about that. This just isn't acceptable considering how much I paid for this camera. Not even close. And, as a side note, I feel that some users of high end equipment are way too forgiving about the providers's many shortcomings.

Cheers,
Bernard

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Bernard,

Thanks a lot!

Best regards!
Erik

Hi Erik,

I believe already wrote about this end of 2016 when I decided to go for the Hasselblad, but here is a short summary:

1. Price: In Japan the H6D-100c and lens set (taking into account the easiness of finding mint second hand H lenses) was a lot cheaper (around 20,000 US$ cheaper)
2. Body feel/bulk: I used both bodies and I just don't see myself working in the street with the XF. My usage has confirmed that it is not an issue with the H6D
3. Mirror slam: although I have not done rigorous measurements, I did feel that the XF has a much worse mirror shock absorption
4. Double memory card slots: I still don't understand how P1 could do the huge mistake of not including 2 card slotsfor a body design to shoot mission critical assignments. Granted, it took Hasselblad one full long year to get this feature working on the H6D, but it is now working fine.

On other areas such a touch UI, image quality,... I didn't see any significant difference. They are both great.

There are some additional values for the XF, such as the sismic detector, DoF stacking automation,... but I don't think they come even close to justifying the price premium.

The h6D now works find with my Arca and thanks to a custom bracket I designed and had 3D Printed, the usage of an external battery is not an issue. Its much higher capacity is even preferable in the end.

I would do the same choice if I had to choose again.

Now, the H6D has finally reach

Cheers,
Bernard