Can you Recommend which settings to use for Large Prints

[rollsman44]

If I need a 20x30 or larger print can you recommend which option in LR to use when Exporting. I will send to a Custom lab for prints . I normally use Big Jpeg files. Is it better to export the image using a Tiff file to get the Best IQ when getting large prints? I know some labs don't accept Tiff files on the download. Any suggestions ? Thank you

[langier]

You are usually fine exporting to large jpeg files for your lab, best quality for export.

The difference one would see between jpeg and tiff if the image is well crafted would probably not be seen side-by-side.

[rollsman44]

   Thank you I appreciate that.  Dennis

[Mark D Segal]

The JPEG format was not intended for making prints that size; it was developed primarily for newswire services, the internet and email. I would suggest that a lab of any professional stature offering prints this size should be able and willing to work with 16-bit TIFF files.That said, as langier mentioned, JPEGs can look surprisingly good  - but that's where some verification would be in order.  You should find out what printing equipment the lab is using for making your prints. If they are using standard professional inkjet printers, the usual resolution rules would apply for achieving optimal quality. The best results are achieved with files that have the native resolution of the print head. In the case of Epson printers, it would be either 360 or 720 pixels per inch (PPI). If they need to be uprezzed to get there, doing it in Lightroom to 360 in this case would be the way to go. I would suggest you set your dimensions to 360 PPI resolution and the linear dimensions you want - for example if the photo has a two inch border all round, the long dimension would be 26 inches and the other change in proportion. Try an export using maximum quality JPEG, then try another export using TIFF. Enlarge each to 100% on your display and look to see whether you find any very obvious differences between them in the smoothness of tonal gradations and the appearance of artifacts. That will tell you straight away which is safer to send to lab, or whether it doesn't matter. You aren't paying peanuts for prints that size, so best to experiment a bit and on that basis provide them with the best quality files you can.

[rollsman44]

  Hi Mark, thank you also for your feedback. I will check with the lab and see what they are set up for and will also do the 100% check as you mentioned. Thats an Excellent idea. I never did that in the past.
     Mark, if the customer wants a 20x30 Print do I still have to add 2 inches to each side for a border?   Thanks Dennis

[digitaldog]

A lab that demands only JPEG (and akin, sRGB only) is a lab that is forcing a less than optimal workflow on you, for their benefit. I agree with Mark that ideally, you'll send a TIFF (24-bit should be fine since there's no further edits but likely some color space conversion). Maybe 20 years ago, the idea of the lab having to download a large file that isn't a JPEG would hold water.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

A lab that demands only JPEG (and akin, sRGB only) is a lab that is forcing a less than optimal workflow on you, for their benefit. I agree with Mark that ideally, you'll send a TIFF (24-bit should be fine since there's no further edits but likely some color space conversion). Maybe 20 years ago, the idea of the lab having to download a large file that isn't a JPEG would hold water.

I agree, but a JPEG at 100% quality is virtually indistinguishable from a TIFF. The variations added by the printing process outweigh the differences (barely measurable, and unlikely to be visible at all) between the JPEG vs TIFF image pixels. For the best results, the print file is already converted to the output profile, and tagged as such, before converting from 16-b/ch to 8-b/ch.

Cheers,
Bart

[Mark D Segal]

  Hi Mark, thank you also for your feedback. I will check with the lab and see what they are set up for and will also do the 100% check as you mentioned. Thats an Excellent idea. I never did that in the past.
     Mark, if the customer wants a 20x30 Print do I still have to add 2 inches to each side for a border?   Thanks Dennis

Hard to say in every case - but usually customers would order prints prints according to the full size of the page; they should also specify whether they want borders or borderless, and if they want borders, what size, which would subtract from the dimensions of the image itself.

[NAwlins_Contrarian]

If I need a 20x30 or larger print can you recommend which option in LR to use when Exporting. I will send to a Custom lab for prints . I normally use Big Jpeg files. Is it better to export the image using a Tiff file to get the Best IQ when getting large prints? I know some labs don't accept Tiff files on the download. Any suggestions ? Thank you

I think there are a couple of things we ought to parse out / get clarified.

I will send to a Custom lab for prints.

To me, that suggests but does not clearly state that you expect the lab to use their judgment to adjust the image's color, lightness, and/or contrast for what they think would make the best possible print. Is that in fact what you want / expect, or do you expect them to print it 'no corrections', i.e., without any such changes (other than converting it to the color profile for their printer)?

Custom lab .... Any suggestions?

Have you asked the lab what they require and/or recommend in terms of file type(s) (JPEG, TIFF, etc.) and/or color spaces (sRGB, Adobe RGB, ProPhoto RGB, etc.)? What do they say?

That said, my basic approach would be:
(1) If the lab requires a certain file type (e.g., JPEG), then send your image in that file type or else choose a different lab.
(2) If the lab requires a certain color space (e.g., sRGB), then send your image in that color space or else choose a different lab. Whether sRGB is a major limitation depends on your image and the printer used, which can be checked.
(3) If you expect the lab to print your image with 'no corrections' except to convert it to the color profile for their printer, then do not hesitate to send them a JPEG as long as you export as a best-quality JPEG,* at least if you're submitting it in sRGB or Adobe RGB.** I'd bet heavily that under the aforementioned conditions, you could not reliably tell prints from JPEGs from prints from 16-bit TIFFs, and I'd even bet the same for the experts.
(4) On the other hand, if you expect the lab to use their judgment to adjust the image's color, lightness, and/or contrast for what they think would make the best possible print, then sending a 16-bit TIFF in a reasonably wide color space may be (depending on image content) more important. And if you expect them to make such changes and they don't accept 16-bit TIFFs in Adobe RGB or wider, then maybe you want to find a new lab.
(5) I would generally send images at their full native resolution, but not resized / resampled to higher resolutions. Very few of us have the combination of software, skills, and information to upsample / upscale significantly better than a good lab will have relative to the specific equipment / process with which they're printing. Can Lightroom do a good job upscaling? Yes--last week I was very pleasantly surprised with some 8x10 inch prints I made from LR of source images only 800 pixels in the long dimension--moderate-size prints at only 80 ppi before upscaling. But can LR do substantially better than a good lab? My bet is: not often.

But all of this is IMOPO. I promise it's worth what you paid for it. And of course, YMMV.

* Maybe the new version of LR is a bit different, but in LR 6 that would mean in the Export dialog box, under File Settings, after you set Image Format to JPEG, make sure the Quality slider is at 100 and the Limit File Size To box is unchecked.

** Whether a JPEG, necessarily limited to 8 bits, is a suitable format for images in the ProPhoto RGB and/or Wide Gamut RGB color spaces is a point of some contention that I don't feel sufficiently well-informed / experienced to offer an opinion.

[rollsman44]

  Thank you everyone for the Recommendations. They all make Good sense. I will follow those suggestions when I am ready to send the lab my files.  Great forum and terrific members.  Thank you   Dennis

[digitaldog]

I agree, but a JPEG at 100% quality is virtually indistinguishable from a TIFF.

It is (on this end) even when both TIFF and resulting JPEG are converted to an output color space (I used my Epson 3880). I used JPEG 12 setting in PS from the original; the are indeed visually identical on screen.

[Mark D Segal]

It is (on this end) even when both TIFF and resulting JPEG are converted to an output color space (I used my Epson 3880). I used JPEG 12 setting in PS from the original; the are indeed visually identical on screen.

I'm having trouble understanding with certainty: are you saying the JPEG and the TIFF ARE distinguishable in the prints from your 3880 but not on the screen?

[digitaldog]

I'm having trouble understanding with certainty: are you saying the JPEG and the TIFF ARE distinguishable in the prints from your 3880 but not on the screen?

I'm agreeing with Bart that on-screen, after converting to an output color space, I see no difference between the JPEG and the TIFF. Didn't make a print.

[Mark D Segal]

OK, thanks.