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Author Topic: Gelatin silver ohp negatives  (Read 2228 times)

deanwork

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Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« on: February 25, 2018, 05:00:36 PM »

Is anyone making high quality ohp inkjet negatives for printing on gelatin silver?

If so what process are you using?

John
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Herbc

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2018, 09:49:18 AM »

I presume you mean which gelatin silver process?  I make digital negs on film and print on silver chloride, aka AZO paper, and also make Platinum and such prints.
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deanwork

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2018, 03:09:04 PM »


No, not which silver process, which software and which inkset for making ohp inkjet negs specifically for contact printing to modern silver gelatin emulsions. There are many workflows out there such as - Dan Burkholders curves for all the new and older Epson printers with Epson color inks. Jon Cones piezography k7 and k6 monochrome inks and software for inkjet digital negatives for all processes,  The Hp Z3200 automated digital neg calibration system for all alternative processes and silver , and Mark Nelson's Precision Digital system that can be used with any printer and inkset.


I presume you mean which gelatin silver process?  I make digital negs on film and print on silver chloride, aka AZO paper, and also make Platinum and such prints.
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Richard.Wills

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2018, 11:28:55 AM »

Piezo DN on a 7880 - Meth 3-1_6v3 makes negs that print straight out to grade 1 multigrade. Simple, clog free, and all the support you can need...

Printing onto the Pictorico Ultra premium OHP.
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deanwork

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 10:54:19 PM »

Thanks Richard, that's exactly what I am planning to use on a 7800.

Is there any advantage to using slower chlorobromide papers over something like Ilfobrome soft grades?
I don't know what has the best silver content these days . I also have a 16x20 vacuum frame.
I have a super bright 6 tube 42" black light exposure unit that I made, so exposure times will be short.

John


Piezo DN on a 7880 - Meth 3-1_6v3 makes negs that print straight out to grade 1 multigrade. Simple, clog free, and all the support you can need...

Printing onto the Pictorico Ultra premium OHP.
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Paul Roark

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2018, 01:47:00 PM »

As a former silver printer, I went through a phase where I wanted my final to be a silver print -- usually 16x20 inches.  I also wanted to have Photoshop in my workflow, for obvious reasons.  I found that inkjet output could not be enlarged.  My solution at the time was the Fujix Pictograph machine.  There was a relatively close service bureau that had one, and I found the OHP transparency film they had could make an internegative that I could enlarge the 8x10 internegatives to a very good 16x20.  The cost of these was down at the $8 to $12 level at the time.  I found that my Beseler 4x5 could easily be converted to an 8x10 enlarger.

At this point, however, I'm over thinking silver prints are better than the best we can do with inkjets.  (They're not.)  I understand the appeal of the silver print as an "alt process" medium, but I also think most buyers (if you're into gallery sales) are interested in the image, not the technology.

FWIW

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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aaronchan

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 09:56:12 AM »

Hi John,

I personally know 3 different methods:
1- Dan's PS curve with advance B&W print driver
2 - QTR with Epson ink
3 - QTR + Piezo Selenium K7 + PiezoDN

I also has Richard Boutwell's spread sheet for multi-diluted K ink but never really use it, tried it but it's a bit more complicated to use as it seems.

I do platinum print for my clients with only method 3, this is how I run my business now.
So far, it seems to have the best result for me.
I'm going to test with silver gelatin paper over this weekend as well, tried it once but was only just for fun, nothing critical. But this time we will be doing it in a more precise manner.

aaron

deanwork

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 10:12:16 PM »

Thanks Aaron. I just bought Dans workflow, about $25.00 , and Iím setting that up in in a great 3880 I just bought used on EBay for the students who wonít have access to or a ability to do some of the more
involved methods. But Iím also going to demonstrate Jonís K7 workflow on another printer, as well as the Hp Z3200 workflow that the Spanish guy Angel, the former HP color scientist created while he was on the staff that designed that printer about 10 years ago. That system was used to make the big 30x40 platinum prints from Elliott Erwittís negatives many years ago. I saw them in NY and they were excellent, and from 35 mm originals. The Hp method, that the company lost interest in and quit supporting, has a custom media setting where you can print out a target and then print it with your chosen process and actually feed the print back into the printer and it will read the target and linearize it automatically. Itís pretty amazing, but for silver and possibly platinum, Iím sure the Piezography out of QTR will have the finest dither and most subtle ramp.

Iím going to be concentrating on the K7 and the HP method for my business work. I finally have a great black light set up and a vacuum frame for up to 16x 20. Need to figure out something else for big monochrome gum prints that I plan to do.

I used Burkholderís curves when I taught this class 18 years ago was shocked at what good results the students got with platinum on the platine paper even on an Epson 1280 with no gray inks. Weird thing about his current system is heís designed them for MK ink. Nobody else does that. I think Iíll try it with Pk also. Course his curves will need to be tweaked for various process anyway, but it will allow people who use the current Epson dektop units to do this without abandoning their everyday color Inkset. I want to combine some of these strange old process by printing one on top of the other in registration and with inkjet layers as well. Iím going to look at unusual accidents.

John



quote author=aaronchan link=topic=123439.msg1031168#msg1031168 date=1520348172]
Hi John,

I personally know 3 different methods:
1- Dan's PS curve with advance B&W print driver
2 - QTR with Epson ink
3 - QTR + Piezo Selenium K7 + PiezoDN

I also has Richard Boutwell's spread sheet for multi-diluted K ink but never really use it, tried it but it's a bit more complicated to use as it seems.

I do platinum print for my clients with only method 3, this is how I run my business now.
So far, it seems to have the best result for me.
I'm going to test with silver gelatin paper over this weekend as well, tried it once but was only just for fun, nothing critical. But this time we will be doing it in a more precise manner.

aaron
[/quote]
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nirpat89

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 10:03:22 AM »

A question, while we are on the topic.  I have gotten my hands on a Epson 1430 with the intention to dedicate it for digital negatives, using third party inks (thinking the OEM Claria inkset that it comes with won't give enough UV opacity, or does it?)  While I am at it, if possible but secondarily, I would also like to do regular B&W prints on the same printer.  Two choices that I know are the Cone Piezography inks and the Eboni Carbons from inksupply.  Which one will better fit the requirements?  I am looking for maximum UV opacity as I am doing Centennial POPs as well as hand-coated salt prints (to start.)  I don't know where silver gelatin falls on the spectrum of UV opacity requirement.  Self-masking printing out processes seem to want the highest opacity so as to be able to push the Dmax on the print.

Any opinions?

Thanks.

:Niranjan.


P.S.  So far I was using HP B9180 which worked great but unfortunately it died on me recently... :( 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 10:47:39 AM by nirpat89 »
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deanwork

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 09:55:59 PM »

Piezography is way to go for digital negs, especially if you are going platinum and gelatin silver. All of them will block uv enough, hp uses yellow green ink as does Nelsonís method for the most part, but piezography will have better resolution and a more subtle tonal ramp. I would buy their curve package and it will save you a lot of work . You need to make sure qtr supports that printer. I have a little r1900 that I could do them on but would have to buy the refillable carts from mis, and the carts are tiny, but it would do good work.  But I just bought a great 3880 on eBay and Iíll either use that or a 7800 someone is giving me.



A question, while we are on the topic.  I have gotten my hands on a Epson 1430 with the intention to dedicate it for digital negatives, using third party inks (thinking the OEM Claria inkset that it comes with won't give enough UV opacity, or does it?)  While I am at it, if possible but secondarily, I would also like to do regular B&W prints on the same printer.  Two choices that I know are the Cone Piezography inks and the Eboni Carbons from inksupply.  Which one will better fit the requirements?  I am looking for maximum UV opacity as I am doing Centennial POPs as well as hand-coated salt prints (to start.)  I don't know where silver gelatin falls on the spectrum of UV opacity requirement.  Self-masking printing out processes seem to want the highest opacity so as to be able to push the Dmax on the print.

Any opinions?

Thanks.

:Niranjan.


P.S.  So far I was using HP B9180 which worked great but unfortunately it died on me recently... :(
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nirpat89

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2018, 11:37:03 AM »

Piezography is way to go for digital negs, especially if you are going platinum and gelatin silver. All of them will block uv enough, hp uses yellow green ink as does Nelsonís method for the most part, but piezography will have better resolution and a more subtle tonal ramp. I would buy their curve package and it will save you a lot of work . You need to make sure qtr supports that printer. I have a little r1900 that I could do them on but would have to buy the refillable carts from mis, and the carts are tiny, but it would do good work.  But I just bought a great 3880 on eBay and Iíll either use that or a 7800 someone is giving me.

Thanks, John.  Looks like piezography is the way to go.  1430 is supported by both QTR and piezography.  So there should be hopefully no issues regarding that.  Playing with those two will be a new experience for me.  Seems like a steep learning curve is ahead of me....

:Niranjan.
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Frans Rutten

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Re: Gelatin silver ohp negatives
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2018, 01:48:49 AM »

Thanks Richard, that's exactly what I am planning to use on a 7800.

Is there any advantage to using slower chlorobromide papers over something like Ilfobrome soft grades?
I don't know what has the best silver content these days . I also have a 16x20 vacuum frame.
I have a super bright 6 tube 42" black light exposure unit that I made, so exposure times will be short.

John

Is there a special reason for using a UV (black light) source? I use a uv light source for different alt processes that are uv light sensitive.
As far as I know, the papers you are intending to use however are visible light sensitive.
Using a uv light source complicates the printing of digital negatives, as the different ink colors have different uv blocking capabilities.
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