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Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla  (Read 4447 times)

Rob C

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2018, 05:25:18 PM »

Or put it this way: how many billions are spent on fashion and cosmetics industry?

Indeed, but it probably remains on Earth. Sadly, not enough of that wealth came my way...

Thinking about astronomical figures, I wonder why anyone feels obliged to earn more than a million bucks a year; I could live a very comfortable life on a fraction (tiny!) of that...

Jus' musin'

Rob

Telecaster

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2018, 05:31:10 PM »

Nifty pic of the Falcon Heavy's final burn, a few hours after the booster stages separated. Taken by Jeremy David. https://www.jeremydavidphotography.com

-Dave-
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Chris Kern

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2018, 05:35:43 PM »

Being able to leave our planet and live somewhere else just might come in handy one day.

But this is dream: were it even physically possible, how many of Earth's population do you imagine could afford a seat?

Not thee or me, but Elon Musk probably can.  He says he wants to die on Mars.  (Just not on impact.)

Rob C

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2018, 05:38:30 PM »

You're still missing the point, Rob.  Space exploration accounts for about 0.05% of global GDP.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/150-people-in-astronomy/space-exploration-and-astronauts/general-questions/921-how-much-money-is-spent-on-space-exploration-intermediate

It's peanuts, but it gives us huge returns in terms of technological advancement quite apart from the inspirational aspects and the contribution to the economy in terms of jobs and so on.

For further perspective, this is about 1% of the global creative arts economy.  Yes, we spend about 100 times more on global creative arts than on space exploration.  So if we taxed the global arts economy just 1% we could direct that to your stated goals without having any significant impact on that sector.

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/12/the-global-creative-economy-is-big-business/422013/

And before you decry that loss the arts, the most significant portion of that is television.


There you are! Tax tv lots more! All it does is pay footballers enough millions a year to discourage normal kids from studying hard in order to try and get good grades... Just like my bloody Internet and 'phone company: they spend millions on Formula 1 and other sports when instead, they could reduce my horrifc monthly communication bills to next to nothing. Everybody here has to rent their lines, whether they are independent telephone suppliers or not - advertising is pointless for them as they already get a piece of everything. Just like the Sopranos, then. But hey, it must be nice being one of their directors; I could enjoy freebies at the Monaco GP too, were some poor shmuck on a pension paying for my jollies.

Yes, lots of fat to trim!

:-)

degrub

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2018, 06:20:07 PM »

and ever it was.. and will be.
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Farmer

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2018, 06:42:01 PM »

Or put it this way: how many billions are spent on fashion and cosmetics industry?

Indeed, that would also dwarf space exploration.
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Phil Brown

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2018, 07:02:50 PM »

Also, if I am not mistaken, Elon is spending his money (and his private investors), not taxpayers' money.

LesPalenik

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2018, 08:25:01 PM »

Or put it this way: how many billions are spent on fashion and cosmetics industry?

Not only cosmetics, but also cosmetic surgeries. Recent report from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) found that Americans spent $16 billion on cosmetic plastic surgery and minimally invasive procedures in 2016. For comparison, Spacex Falcon Heavy launch cost $90 million. That's about as much as just the buttock augmentations in 2016.
For the cost of breast augmentations we could send Tesla Semi Truck to another galaxy (with a complete team of cosmetic surgeons).

•Breast augmentation — more than 290,000 procedures at a cost of about $3,700 each.

•Liposuction — about 235,000 procedures at $3,200.

•Nose reshaping — 223,000 procedures at $5,000.

•Tummy tuck — almost 128,000 procedures at around $5,800.

•Buttock augmentation — nearly 19,000 procedures at about $4,400.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/sc-cost-of-plastic-surgery-procedures-health-0503-20170413-story.html
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 08:57:41 PM by LesPalenik »
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tom b

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2018, 01:27:52 AM »

Not only cosmetics, but also cosmetic surgeries. Recent report from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) found that Americans spent $16 billion on cosmetic plastic surgery and minimally invasive procedures in 2016. For comparison, Spacex Falcon Heavy launch cost $90 million. That's about as much as just the buttock augmentations in 2016.
For the cost of breast augmentations we could send Tesla Semi Truck to another galaxy (with a complete team of cosmetic surgeons).

•Breast augmentation — more than 290,000 procedures at a cost of about $3,700 each.

•Liposuction — about 235,000 procedures at $3,200.

•Nose reshaping — 223,000 procedures at $5,000.

•Tummy tuck — almost 128,000 procedures at around $5,800.

•Buttock augmentation — nearly 19,000 procedures at about $4,400.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/sc-cost-of-plastic-surgery-procedures-health-0503-20170413-story.html

I had surgeries to remove a basal cell carcinoma on my nose, hey I'm Australian in the skin cancer capital of the world. Thank you crazy Americans, unless told you wouldn't notice that I had two surgeries. Plastic surgeons aren't all bad.

Still smiling,
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Tom Brown

David Sutton

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2018, 02:58:04 AM »

Also, if I am not mistaken, Elon is spending his money (and his private investors), not taxpayers' money.
Subsidies are not taxpayers' money?
He'd likely be out of business if it weren't for the billions of your money (one estimate here).
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Farmer

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2018, 05:02:26 AM »

Subsidies are not taxpayers' money?
He'd likely be out of business if it weren't for the billions of your money (one estimate here).

That's over the course of more than a decade and represents about 0.026% of US GDP from just a single year.  Of all the things governments spend money on, investing in new tech like this for such a small amount seems like a pretty good move.
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Phil Brown

Rob C

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2018, 05:52:55 AM »

I had surgeries to remove a basal cell carcinoma on my nose, hey I'm Australian in the skin cancer capital of the world. Thank you crazy Americans, unless told you wouldn't notice that I had two surgeries. Plastic surgeons aren't all bad.

Still smiling,

Tell me about it.

Seven or eight years of living in India, many many trips to sunspots on holiday and for business, and now thirty-seven or more years of living on the Med. I have been told I have actinic keratosis and had two lumps cut from my face: one above a nostril and another from my ear. No plastics so far - I don't give a damn how I look. The keratosis requires a very expensive cream on my mug every time I decide I need to go outdoors; the surgery for the basals was painless and involved a discussion with the doc and nurse about current pop music. I mentioned Chuck B and they asked who dat be? One eventually said ah! Rock and Roll! Even worse, an estate agent was in the house looking at my own shots of the place when he spotted the pro gallery and wanted a peek. When I reached the Bardot shots, he asked: who she? Well, he is from South America, so I suppose that's okay. There comes a massive disconnect between generations.

I hope our carcinomas do not return.

Rob C

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2018, 05:57:30 AM »

That's over the course of more than a decade and represents about 0.026% of US GDP from just a single year.  Of all the things governments spend money on, investing in new tech like this for such a small amount seems like a pretty good move.


That's the trouble with figures: they mask the underlying reality of problems and reduce everything not to priority but numbers. Numbers tell you nothing of moral or relative values, only of numbers.

As argument they are worthless unless you are willing to assume that everything is equal in importance.

Rob

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2018, 04:16:50 PM »


That's the trouble with figures: they mask the underlying reality of problems and reduce everything not to priority but numbers. Numbers tell you nothing of moral or relative values, only of numbers.

As argument they are worthless unless you are willing to assume that everything is equal in importance.

Rob

The problem with not using numbers, or with abusing them (quoting "billions" because it's emotive and seems a lot), is that you take an entirely subjective view of the issue.  You need to consider both sides, and dismissing numbers that go against "how you feel" is truly worthless.

That's why I mentioned both the numbers (and how small they are relatively), as well as previously pointing out the benefits of technological advancement and development.  If we want to accelerate development in certain areas (clean energy, for example), then governments providing benefits for business to encourage them and get things started is well worthwhile.  That's both in numbers and value to the world.
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Phil Brown

David Sutton

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2018, 04:28:47 PM »

That's why I mentioned both the numbers (and how small they are relatively), as well as previously pointing out the benefits of technological advancement and development.  If we want to accelerate development in certain areas (clean energy, for example), then governments providing benefits for business to encourage them and get things started is well worthwhile.  That's both in numbers and value to the world.
That's fair enough, though we will have to wait some years to find out if it was money well spent.
Let me put out some counter ideas which are opinion only.
It may be a good investment but on the other hand:
How much is actually new tech?
Musk's ventures have never made a profit and never will. They are about hype, not usefulness. For example, if you wanted a car that minimises fossil fuel use over its entire life, from manufacture to disposal, a Mitsubishi Mirage beats a Tesla hands down.
Speaking of Tesla, it has always made a loss, but its shares are valued way higher than Nissan, who also makes an electric car but also makes a profit. What's that about?
Its technology is based on materials like cobalt and copper for which there are no new easily accessible reserves. To give you an idea, Rio Tinto have started a fracking operation in Arizona (down 7,00 feet) to extract copper. Technically an achievement but it it says a lot about the future cost and availability of copper.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to doing more of the same to solve our problems. I don't see that using the same type of thinking that got us into our difficulties will get us out. It's "wishful thinking". As my dad used to say, you can wish in one hand and wee in the other, and see which fills up first.
David
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2018, 04:45:51 PM »

... Speaking of Tesla, it has always made a loss, but its shares are valued way higher than Nissan, who also makes an electric car but also makes a profit. What's that about? ...

The same as with any other stock price: expectations of future returns.

David Sutton

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2018, 04:55:45 PM »

The same as with any other stock price: expectations of future returns.
Quite. I was thinking more along the lines of "there's one born every minute". But in an investment world without price discovery, who can tell?
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MattBurt

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2018, 10:56:06 PM »

I have a feeling that without SpaceX or other space agencies, there would still be starving people and mass suffering in the world. I don't think there is much of a connection between the two as it stands at the moment. But maybe we could discover something that would help through exploration? Maybe not too, but that is how exploration goes. It's to know the unknown. Sometimes the unknown has no value once known but sometimes it has immense value and you never know until you do!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 03:16:06 PM by MattBurt »
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-MattB

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2018, 02:13:48 PM »

Exactly right, Matt.
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Phil Brown

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Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy Launches Elon's Tesla
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2018, 02:24:26 PM »

Falcon Heavy is a larger milestone than most people know. It marks the first time Elon Musk has actually delivered something that was difficult. Electric cars are launching stuff into low earth orbit were both literally within reach of moderately well funded amateurs before Musk started hyping his companies. His accomplishments up until now are basically in wrapping (well understood) corporate and fund raising structures around (well understood, fairly simple) technologies, and hyping the crap out of them.

Falcon  Heavy is actually pretty hard.

He's still not going to Mars, of course. But at least he's managed to accomplish something that's more than a glossy version of a toy.
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