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Author Topic: Some advance info on Lr7.2  (Read 4971 times)

adias

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2018, 01:05:23 PM »

I wonder whether he is allowed to publish stuff like that pre-release?

It just shows that some Web-zines have better connections than others.
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Philmar

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2018, 03:50:30 PM »

Can you provide evidence showing that since the introduction of the subscription approach there has been a decrease of product innovation relative to that which occurred over the two years before the introduction of the subscription approach, for either Photoshop or Lightroom?
Mark, I'm just describing many peoples' perceptions. Various Lightroom fora are full of threads from people who upgraded LR and upgraded their hardware yet feel their processing time has decreased. I have no desire in doing an in depth analysis of LR innovations in 2 year periods.  Wouldn't even now how to quantify and measure the relative value of the myriad of innovations. Sounds inherently subjective. 



Mark D Segal

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 04:16:59 PM »

Mark, I'm just describing many peoples' perceptions. Various Lightroom fora are full of threads from people who upgraded LR and upgraded their hardware yet feel their processing time has decreased. I have no desire in doing an in depth analysis of LR innovations in 2 year periods.  Wouldn't even now how to quantify and measure the relative value of the myriad of innovations. Sounds inherently subjective.

I hear you. I'm just tired of arguments that have no factual basis - no particular blame intended. :-)
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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gdsf2

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2018, 06:09:15 PM »

Can you provide evidence showing that since the introduction of the subscription approach there has been a decrease of product innovation relative to that which occurred over the two years before the introduction of the subscription approach, for either Photoshop or Lightroom? This discussion and the "feel/believe" business has been going on for a very long time. I think it is high time to replace conspiracy theories with some indisputable facts, otherwise discussing this contention is a waste of time. And by the way, no serious company will take the time, expense and effort to change their whole business strategy for the sake of keeping "a few of the subscribers" from looking at competitors - they expect to lose some and they just let them walk. As long as the vast majority subscribes, all else equal they're keeping their shareholders satisfied.


Actually, for a business, what thier customers  “feel” or “believe” is much more important than facts. Especially in the service industry, and since they are selling SAAS they are in the service industry.

As an aside...photography is all about “feelings.”  I will leave the need for indisputable facts and quantitative analysis for my day job. This is my escape from all that.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2018, 10:58:00 PM »


Actually, for a business, what thier customers  “feel” or “believe” is much more important than facts. Especially in the service industry, and since they are selling SAAS they are in the service industry.

As an aside...photography is all about “feelings.”  I will leave the need for indisputable facts and quantitative analysis for my day job. This is my escape from all that.

We're not talking about photography, we're talking about alternative commercial structures to sell a product called "software". Customers' feelings or beliefs surely matter, but they should be informed by the facts. If they are not, there is a communications problem causing misunderstanding.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Schmoe

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2018, 11:27:26 PM »

The subscription model changes the behavior of Adobe. Some current customers feel/believe the current subscription model acts as a disincentive for Adobe to worl harder on future upgrades for current users. They em to make upgrades to attract new smart phone based photographers. Under the past license model Adobe LR needed to roll out new improvements in order for us to pay more money to Adobe. Many feel that Adobe has less incentive to roll out improvements now that they have us on a monthly plan. Many people (me included) signed on to the subscription model reluctantly as there are few other comparable products. There are other RAW rendering and DAM products that may be maturing in the next few months that do NOT require a subscription fee.
I think this is a marketing move to keep a few of the subscribers from looking at maturing competitors.

FWIW, as someone who works for a different, very large, software company who has also transitioned to a subscription model for its core product, I can honestly say that this perception is far from reality.  Convincing consumers and small businesses (whom I’m intentionally separating from medium to large business who already buy software on an annuity basis) to buy into a subscription model is very hard to do, especially if there are viable alternatives in the competitive landscape. It has, in fact, put a lot of pressure to demonstrate not just core value, but continued value on an ongoing basis.  Whether the path to that goal is well executed is a separate question. But the pressure and intention internally is real. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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tomhogarty

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2018, 11:32:23 PM »

Thanks for the additional comments.  I do tend to "stick to the facts" but there's no denying the role perception, emotion and brand affinity play in these conversations.  I fell deep into the Canon and Nikon debate in my film days but have since realized that was based on emotion, an endowment effect and a non-trivial sunk cost. But it's Adobe's responsibility to help customers feel like they're making or have made the right choice through product or any of the other, less quantitative, measurements above.  Hence the change in communication patterns and the quantitative gains we hope customers realize with Lr7.0, 7.1 and 7.2. 

Regards,
Tom
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rafperini

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2018, 02:45:24 AM »

Tom,

Changes in the communication towards openess are always very welcome!

Coming from Aperture, I do share the speed concerns voiced by many and do appreciate all efforts to make Lightroom faster.

However, what was really exciting was to learn that Search feature will come to the Folders Pamel, allowing us to search nested folders. This is a major improvment and will definitely help find that folder withoit having to open the finder for that. Next, I am hoping that the Sensei Search (auto-tag or autokeyword already available in the CC version will eventually makes it ways into the Classic version!

Finally I still hope for the day when Lightroom Classic will have a unified browse/develop interface to allow a non-modular approach to the workflow. I see that CC version adopted that!

Best regards

Rafael
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john beardsworth

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2018, 05:30:58 AM »

However, what was really exciting was to learn that Search feature will come to the Folders Pamel, allowing us to search nested folders. This is a major improvment and will definitely help find that folder withoit having to open the finder for that.

I'll be glad to see it too. Sometimes at least, patience is a virtue.

Rhossydd

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2018, 01:43:32 AM »

no serious company will take the time, expense and effort to change their whole business strategy for the sake of keeping "a few of the subscribers" from looking at competitors
Letting a few people post about beta software is hardly a change of their "whole business strategy", get a perspective.

LR hit maturity at 5 and now it's just being fiddled with just enough to keep people on board.
7.2 looks like a fix to me. They promised great things with GPU integration that didn't deliver and 7.0 was supposedly better, but didn't deliver. Now they're trying again and the reports from the beta suggest better, but still not as much as promised.
Still no compelling reason to buy into subscription for me.

Roll on Serif's version.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2018, 07:42:42 AM »

They promised great things with GPU integration that didn't deliver and 7.0 was supposedly better, but didn't deliver. Now they're trying again and the reports from the beta suggest better, but still not as much as promised.
One of the key problems right now is the unavailability and high cost (if you can find them) of fast GPUs with 6GB of memory.  Crypto-currency mining has really screwed things up price wise for both GPUs and RAM.  I've been pricing parts for a new work station build and it doesn't look pretty these days.  I've been seeing almost 100% increases in some part prices relative to what I paid three years ago.  It's even hard to upgrade my current PC because RAM manufacturers are not making fast DDR3 memory these days opting for DDR4 which is incompatible with my rig.  >:(
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2018, 08:53:05 AM »

Letting a few people post about beta software is hardly a change of their "whole business strategy", get a perspective.

LR hit maturity at 5 and now it's just being fiddled with just enough to keep people on board.
7.2 looks like a fix to me. They promised great things with GPU integration that didn't deliver and 7.0 was supposedly better, but didn't deliver. Now they're trying again and the reports from the beta suggest better, but still not as much as promised.
Still no compelling reason to buy into subscription for me.

Roll on Serif's version.

I'm not the one needing to "get a perspective" - the first order of business Paul is to carefully read the context so you understand it before firing off misguided exhortations to others.

The context of my remark you think lacks perspective wasn't about beta testing - it was about the acceptability of the subscription model of software vending, and I'll stick with my contention stated therein. 

Now, may I ask, it appears from what you say that you aren't in the subscription stream, so how do you know about the performance and feature changes that have occurred since the latest update of the perpetual license version you would be operating?

As for "maturity", it's a fuzzy concept, very much in the eye of the beholder in terms of what it is and when it happens. With digital imaging we live in a world of incremental technical change that doesn't necessarily blow the world over with each new release, but gradually adds a few improvements at a time until at the end of several years what we are using now is obviously superior to what we used several years ago. The same holds for cameras and inkjet printers. I think it would be unreasonable to expect sea-changes in software performance from one version to the next regardless of the sales model. It periodically happens that very major changes occur in a new software version ushering in a different kind of functionality to serve for years into the future, but these are normally less frequent than the kinds of update improvements you seem to consider as relatively unimportant, but I would consider to be movement along a continuum of welcome technical development. I'm happy they have the cash flow to keep doing it, and I'm happy there's growing competition out there to discipline the market.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rhossydd

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2018, 03:00:16 PM »

Now, may I ask, it appears from what you say that you aren't in the subscription stream, so how do you know about the performance and feature changes that have occurred since the latest update of the perpetual license version you would be operating?
It's easy enough to read reviews and see what people report here and elsewhere. If there had been a significant improvement it would have been widely reported and applauded, but no, people are still moaning about speed and responsiveness.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2018, 03:37:57 PM »

It's easy enough to read reviews and see what people report here and elsewhere. If there had been a significant improvement it would have been widely reported and applauded, but no, people are still moaning about speed and responsiveness.

You should be aware of an often remarked human tendency to use web forums much more for complaining than for applauding. So if that's the case and this is what one depends on, there is a risk of having a rather skewed impression of the broader reality. Anyhow, if you're telling us you don't have relevant first hand experience with the subscription versions of the application, so be it. As you know and obviously don't like too much, the more recent fully-featured versions are subscription only. 
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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john beardsworth

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2018, 03:53:26 PM »

One observation is that the articles are comparing the 7.2 build against 7.1 - which already includes improvements over the last non-subscription version. I ran some tests today using a sample of 100 24mp Fuji raw files, and found LR is now 68% faster than 6.14 when generating 1:1 previews. Anyone can run such simple tests for themselves - and without subscribing.

Mark D Segal

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2018, 04:05:06 PM »

That makes sense.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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ihv

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2018, 04:03:51 AM »

I'd appreciate if Adobe had a similar policy like Cakewalk Sonar in music software - after one year the software continues to operate with full functionality but the updates simply stop when not renewing.
Now I see that that would be awfully cheap for LR + PS for an annual rental price, but I wouldn't mind if that was valid only for LR.

This is to say that as a full workflow package LR is indeed quite ahead of competition, but I'd want at least some options to vote with money in terms of feature upgrades.
For *me personally* the last years haven't really upped the game. The speed wasn't exactly an issue for me and a lot of effort has gone there recently.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 04:07:29 AM by ihv »
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john beardsworth

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2018, 09:59:32 AM »

Puget Systems seem to have had a look at 7.2 too. Its performance is only measured against 7.1 - against 6.14 it would look better still.

MBehrens

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2018, 01:45:34 PM »

Too bad there is not much difference in importing. Their scenario is what I do mostly and is my biggest complaint, import from SD card, and there is very little improvement there. It doesn't say what type of previews are being generated on import, suspect Std. Panos are so seldom that a 5 - 10 sec improvement isn't a big deal. Convert to DNG.. eh who cares. Export, ok that might matter will be nice. If the overall feel of the app will be snappier (great technical term) and more responsive it will be a success.

Their statements of "Performance Increase" are deceptive. They state that a LRCCC7.1 score of 43, and a LRCCC7.2 score of 32.5 is a 32% increase. I'm sorry but the difference of 10.5 is a 24% decrease in score "Performance Increase" from the base measure LRCCC7.1. This is simply deceptive advertising and cast a shadow over the entire report. This is not simply an over-sight or mistake, these are smart folks.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Some advance info on Lr7.2
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2018, 02:01:48 PM »

Their statements of "Performance Increase" are deceptive. They state that a LRCCC7.1 score of 43, and a LRCCC7.2 score of 32.5 is a 32% increase. I'm sorry but the difference of 10.5 is a 24% decrease in score "Performance Increase" from the base measure LRCCC7.1. This is simply deceptive advertising and cast a shadow over the entire report. This is not simply an over-sight or mistake, these are smart folks.

It is a 32% increase in speed though, isn't it? If the task takes 21.5 instead of 43, it might be 50% less time than before but you're doing it twice as fast, 100% faster. That's the calculation and it makes sense.

What's perhaps deceptive is only measuring progress against 7.1 rather than 6.14, though it does emphasize that it's a continuing effort.
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