Vehicle choices for field trips - car & trailer?

[wheatridger]

I traded my popup for a T@B trailer this past summer and couldn't be happier.  extremely stylish together, but anything that can tow 2000 lbs or over can tow a T@B well.

It's a great travel photographer's hotel on wheels!
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One thing for sure about the T@B trailers, they look terriffic. They've expanded the stylish teardrop profile into something really useable for more than sleeping. I might have considered one over the Scamp if they'd been on the market longer-- much longer, to get the purchase price down below $3000 or so. I'll be interested in how these T@Bs age, gracefully or not. It's reassuring that my Scamp has a two-piece molded body, bonded together that won't shake apart and leak over time, as some RV's are prone to do. One other limitation is, I don't see how you'd sleep a third person. We can't leave our nine-year-old home alone on family trips, and wouldn't want to.  The T@B's flip-up windows are an advantage I don't have, though.

Limitations aside, no travel trailer looks cooler to me than a two-tone T@B. And who's to say looks aren't important? Not us artists.

BTW, the Subaru platform makes an excellent tow vehicle.  For details, search www.fiberglassrv.com or www.casitaclub.com for my detailed accounts of towing in hot weather and high altitudes with a non-turbo Forester. Briefly, I've had no problems: no overheating, no undue engine wear (I had the oil analyzed with normal results), no fearsome moments, no sway, and no brake failures. There's less power, of course- 5th gear becomes overdrive, useless on any upgrade. My "performance envelope" now resembles an old VW Beetle. You drive a little slower, as you should while towing a ton. Though you'll be slow in the Interstate, that's just another reason to choose the blue highways. Every other driver will pass you ASAP, no matter how fast you drive, because you're pulling a trailer and they expect you to be slow.

A British outfit, practicalcaravanning.com, called the turbo Forester "Tow Car of the Year." In the US, of course, "tow car" is an unfamiliar concept, but I'm here to say you don't have to have a truck. Just watch your weight. It's easy to add hundreds of pounds of gear. Find your local truck scale and learn how to use it. I tow at an even ton, 80% of my tow rating. The crucial limitation is tongue weight. You need at least 10%, and Subarus are rated only for 200 lbs back there. There's no easily available air shocks to beef that up. In 2004 when I bought mine, the OEM load-leveling rear shocks came only with the automatic-transmission LL Bean model. But I'd never tow with an automatic. Using the gears wisely, I barely use my brakes as I descend Colorado passes. That's a safety factor I wouldn't trade away.

[Lust4Life]

I was not aware of the Casita.  As I'm almost 6' 5" tall, a critical issue for me is the ability to stand up in the trailer.  Of course, in the E-1 by Fleetwood there is enough head room for me, and there was in the Airstream Safari 22' I had - it was just too heavy to tow for the car I wanted.  I must admit that I would prefer a "hard wall" unit like an Airstream Bambi 16 or the Casita for security reasons and camping in inclimate weather.

Is your Casita a "four season" rig?

Please advise the head room in your Casita - I went to their web site but interior height is not listed anywhere that I could find.

Thanks,
Jack

Hi Jack,

By the time you downsize and retool, you could by several cross country trips...

We have a Toyota 4Runner 4wd and pull a 17 foot Casita. The Casita is similar in shape to your Airstream and has all the amenities (bath-shower-fridge-heat-air) but all in a much smaller and lighter package. It isn't much wider than my 4Runner.

I looked at motorhomes-they cost big $$, have another motor to feed $$, need general liability insurance $$, cost a fortune to license in California, and then you still have to pack-up to drive away. Parking and storage were other issues and if I had another vehicle, I most likely forget something in my 4Runner and need to duplicate it in the other rig.

A tent trailer requires assembly as do the hard-side pop-ups. Thus, a small towable was the answer. With the Toyota, my choices were limited to a maximum weight of about 3000-4000 pounds. I wanted something not too tall and not too long and the Casita was what we settled on.

I looked at the Scamps, the other US-made fiberglass trailer, but they were just a bit shorter and not quite as tall on the inside. Casita makes a 13, 16 and 17 footer with the 17 having the most interior room and head space.

We just got finished driving for the last two months-from California to South Carolina, Georgia, Louisiana and home, about 9000 and 60 DVDs full of images. Fuel cost for that trip was less than $1300 and average was about 14-15 mpg. The 4Runner is a V6 and both it and the Casita are third-hand. We use regular and the Toyota thrives on 85-86 octane, especially if it isn't the California Designer gas.

We've put on more than 13,000 miles over 90 days this year alone and have had the Casita since 2002. Motels were just too much a drag and took too much time to unpack and pack daily. We would be out shooting till after dark, then need to find a motel and diner for shelter and food and that sometimes took hours...

The Casita has more than paid for itself in time, lodging and meals. It's been to Alaska and all over the west and many narrow and steep back roads that anything longer or wider couldn't maneuver.

We have a power inverter and generator and is all we need for nightly downloads of the digital cameras, battery charging, etc. As to keeping the place cool, we seldom use the a/c any more since we have a power vent in the roof, thus the generator is used minimally.

We've probably have lived in the Casita since its purchase about six-eight months and traveled at least 60,000 miles. A usual trip is at least a week to ten days and many times two-four weeks and we cover anywhere from two to three thousand miles and many times more.

It's not an Airstream as far as the luxury and the interior space, but at night when we are asleep, it looks just the same;-)

Because we are so short (34 feet total length), we can park in a standard two-car Walmart space and in many campgrounds in rural areas were length is an issue.

The Casita is pretty low maintenance, just like your Safari, and all but the graywater tank and outlets are enclosed within the fiberglass shell.

You would probably not know you were towing with your Crewcab if you were to downsize, but at the cost of the vast interior space of your present rig.

There is a pretty good website for support of the Casita at casitaclub.com.

If you want to see our rig, it's on my site at angier-fox.com/images/03-casita-tt/casita.htm

Hope this gives you another option.
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[wheatridger]

I was not aware of the Casita.  As I'm almost 6' 5" tall, a critical issue for me is the ability to stand up in the trailer.  

-- No good news for you there, lusty. I checked the casitaclub.com site and found owners reporting 6'2" of headroom in their 17-footers. Scamp is the other current maker, with nothing much bigger. At 6'5", you might find these trailers a little small after all. I've grazed my head walking through the door, and I'm 5'7". Sometimes it pays to be a compact-model human.

A few older brands of fiberglass trailers had pop-up roof sections to add a foot or two clearance. That's not a factory option, but I don't know why it couldn't be added as a custom job.

Yes, it's a four-seasons trailer, I suppose. It has insulation and ventilation, and it's as windproof and rainproof as your car. Some folks heat with furnaces, others with catalytic heaters, both fired with propane, same as other RVs. I heard of at least one owner who installed a tiny wood stove designed for boats.

Aliners look like they have more clearance at the peak of the roof. That might be your best bet for a hard-sided compact.

[tsjanik]

Here’s one of my vehicles of choice.  This is the view I saw on Christmas morning out of the kitchen window; my wife had surprised me with a canoe I’ve always wanted: an 18ft., 39lb., Wenonah Jensen.  Adirondacks, Algonquin, and Georgian Bay here I come.

Happy Holidays,

Tom

[johnshawphoto]

I use -- and highly recommend -- the pop-up truck campers made by Four Wheel Campers.  I've got a Grandby model on a standard Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4 pickup.   I leave the tailgate down so interior length is 8 feet, interior height is 6' 4".  It takes about one minute to pop up the top.  Interior:  queen bed, stove, fridge, sink, 20 gal water tank, CD changer, outlet and inverter outlet, power roof vent, all windows screened (lots of ventalation, and screens can be removed for shooting from inside), lots of storage, etc. etc.  There is a separate battery for the camper which rechanges when the truck is running.  I use this extensively for location work in the western US, and have camped in temps from -20 to over 100 with no problems.  It's very comfortable inside, easy to drive.  If the weather is bad I can stay warm and dry, make a hot meal, and work on my laptop.  When closed the camper is just over a foot higher than the cab, hence it has little effect on milage (I might add that dry weight is just 800 pounds).  It's no wider than the standard truck mirrors so I can ease through those narrow spots.  For that matter I can park the rig in my garage.  Check out www.fourwheelcampers.com.  They make quite a number of models, with lots of options, for all pickups including the smaller Toyotas.  Right now I've got just over 100,000 miles on the truck/camper.

[Lust4Life]

One of the reasons I got rid of the Ford F-250 diesel is that I found it impractical for running down extensive miles of Forest Service roads seeking out hiking trails and the ever elusive one missed landsccape photo opportunity in North America.  

I did do it on numerous opportunities but was never comfortable with the size of the F-250 diesel crew 4x4 on the FS trails and frequently turned back rather than risk sliding off a cliff on a narror trail.  Also the rear end would jump all over the place when you went town a "wash board" road and putting me on the edge of loosing direction control of the rig.

For instance, two Sundays ago I drove over 30 miles on narrow winding FS trails in N. GA and TN in my FJ - Was in 4x4 much of othe time but never felt like the trail was too risky, where I would have in the F-250 crew cab on some of the route.

Thus, truck option for me and my type of exploring is out.  

So far, I'm quite comfortable with the FJ-Cruiser and the E-1 but find the following as disadvantages when compared to the Airstream or like rig:
1.  Biggest is canvas sides = no security for anything in the E-1.  Must restow all camera and computer gear back in the FJ if leaving the campsite, even to go to the shower and bath house.  (Carry 4x5 with collection of lenses and Canon 1Ds MK II with lenses.)  Also in a rainstorm or windstorm you just don't feel comfortable inside as compared to an Airstream travel trailer.
2.  Not a true 4 season rig - I'm becoming interested in doing some winter/snow/ice photography and the idea of staying in the E-1 in 15 degree night air is not real compelling.
 3.  Set up time at the campsite or if you are on the road and want to fix lunch - not an option that makes sense as compared to pulling into Wendy's.  With the Airstream we normally fixed our own sandwich with healthy ingredients.

Advantages:  Tows great without a fancy expensive hitch! Decent fuel mileage and burning gas instead of the diesel that is more expensive that any of the gas grades.  Plenty of head room.  Large beds.  Costs a fraction of an Airstream.

Future:  Continue with current set up (FJ-Cruiser with Fleetwood E-1) and try to avoid tieing up far more cash in an Airstream Bambi 16' rig.  (I can just fit in the Airstream.)  In short, the Airstream Bambi 16' rig is hard to resist once you've had it but I'm currently enjoying the E-1 and my savings account hopes that will continue!  :-)

Closing note:  I am totally satisfied with the FJ.  Getting excellent mileage compared to the F-250.  Around town I'm getting 18.6-19 and on the highway driving at 73-75 mph I'm getting 20.7-21.  Burn mid-grade.  My FJ is a 4x4 unit with all the options.  It's a blast to drive and really takes rough FS trails with ease.  I have about 5,000 miles on it now and it's less than 3 months old - will be taking it in today to have it's first oil change done and I'm going to use Mobile One in it.  In short, I can't sing it praises loud enough.  It even tows my Lund 1800 Sport Fisherman with ease.

I use -- and highly recommend -- the pop-up truck campers made by Four Wheel Campers.  I've got a Grandby model on a standard Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4 pickup.   I leave the tailgate down so interior length is 8 feet, interior height is 6' 4".  It takes about one minute to pop up the top.  ................................

[Cruiser]

I've been lurking on this board and found it most helpful so far. I do a lot of hiking/camping/photography in the four corners region.  Right now, I can go just about anywhere in my Toyota Land Cruiser and I sleep in the back with the seats down.  The downside is that it is a tight fit for two people and our new addition to trips, our dog.  Plus, the wife doesn't so much care for the cold.  So, I've been searching for the perfect solution myself.  

My main goal is to be able to four-wheel/off-road just about anywhere and then camp in relative comfort.  Perhaps I am missing something, but can these trailers be towed off-road?  My version of fourwheeling is fairly rugged- much more than washboard roads.  I regularly hit the skid-plates on the cruiser and scrape the bumpers going over, through, out of washes, slickrock steps, etc.

I've narrowed it down to:
1. a Four Wheel Camper or All Terrain Camper (FWC's new competitor) and a half-ton pickup. My main concern here is weight.  Although both rigs have dry weights of 700lbs, when you add two people, dog, water, propane, food and gear you are going to meet or top the 1650 payload of most half-tons.  A bigger truck like the f-250, etc. is out of the question for me. So I am concerned about offroading with that much weight.  Does anyone have any experiences with this sort of setup?

2. a tow-behind, off-road, pop-up, camper trailer like the Adventure Trailer http://www.adventuretrailers.com/ There are many like this out there.  I would very much prefer a hard-sided or mostly-hardsided setup (wife has a MAJOR fear of bears- irrational, I/she knows, but a good night sleep is important without the "what was that noise?" issues) and they seem to be warmer and quieter on windy nights.  I have two concerns here: they seem to be all tent-sided, which may or may not allow for a heater; and can one really off-road with these things?  It would seem the hitching parts between the hitch and the trailer itself could cause breakover angle issues.  Anyone have any thoughts here?

Thanks for the great forum. I've learned a lot here.

[John Camp]

I use -- and highly recommend -- the pop-up truck campers made by Four Wheel Campers.  I've got a Grandby model on a standard Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4 pickup. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92272\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

John, can you stand on the top of the camper without damaging it?

JC

[wheatridger]

The Adventure Trailer looks quite rugged, much more trail-worthy than a Scamp. The question is, is it camp-worthy? What does it provide you that a large camping tent doesn't? It puts you up off the ground, and that's good, until the wind starts blowing hard. That kind of big, square-sided tent looks to me like a flapper. The traielr box provides some extra cargo space. But if space inside the vehicle isn't insufficient, I'd probably prefer sleeping on the ground (and a good pad ) in my choice of high-grade family-sized dome tents that are available at one-tenth the price. On those kinds of roads, I might not want a trailer tagging behind- makes it too hard to turn around! But that's how "Bush Tucker Man" toured the Australian outback in that late, great Travel Channel show, with a tiny Land Rover and even tinier trailer, so it might work.

[Lust4Life]

From what I've learned:
Diesel truck with on truck camper:  Truck is too big and tail too light to be of much use on off roads or running down Forest Service roads in most of the areas I've been.  There were many FS roads where my 2006 F-250 crew cab 4x4 diesel would not make a sharp curve and was too wide to feel safe on a narror trail with a steep cliff on one side.  Many times it kept me for going further on a trail that I would have easily proceed down in my FJ.  Plus cost of a good truck is much higher than an FJ if you buy it right, as I did.

Rig is top heavy and to do any serious attempts at off roading you must remove the camper.  The cost of diesel is substantially higher than regular or mid grade gas.  In short, nothing about it is to my personal liking.

My Toyota FJ is a great solution with the Fleetwood Evolution E-1 trailer IF you are comfortable with a pop-up.  The trailer is made for off road travel with 15" tires and great ground clearance.  On the highway it towed like it wasn't there!  Pull into your campsite, unhook and run your FJ down any trail there is or off road and get great mileage compared to a truck.  Places a truck wouldn't think of going.  You could even put a trail/dirt bike on the front deck of the E-1 if you were so moved.

Only thing is you must be happy with a pop-up camper logic (a tent on wheels).  If you are, this is a great solution.  

With my FJ I get 20-21 MPG on the highway and 18.6 City on mid-grade gas.  Towing the E-1 on the highway my mileage dropped to 15.6 MPG - not bad!

Picture of the unit is attached, if I did it correctly.

Only reason I went to the Airstream Bambi 16' unit is: to encourage my wife to go with me; security for myself and my camera gear; at 60 years old I'm not as excited about a tent trailer as I would have been even 10 years ago; I'm just plain spoiled!

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[Cruiser]

From what I've learned:
Diesel truck with on truck camper:  Truck is too big and tail too light to be of much use on off roads or running down Forest Service roads in most of the areas I've been.  There were many FS roads where my 2006 F-250 crew cab 4x4 diesel would not make a sharp curve and was too wide to feel safe on a narror trail with a steep cliff on one side.  Many times it kept me for going further on a trail that I would have easily proceed down in my FJ.  Plus cost of a good truck is much higher than an FJ if you buy it right, as I did.

Rig is top heavy and to do any serious attempts at off roading you must remove the camper.  The cost of diesel is substantially higher than regular or mid grade gas.  In short, nothing about it is to my personal liking.

My Toyota FJ is a great solution with the Fleetwood Evolution E-1 trailer IF you are comfortable with a pop-up.  The trailer is made for off road travel with 15" tires and great ground clearance.  On the highway it towed like it wasn't there!  Pull into your campsite, unhook and run your FJ down any trail there is or off road and get great mileage compared to a truck.  Places a truck wouldn't think of going.  You could even put a trail/dirt bike on the front deck of the E-1 if you were so moved.

Only thing is you must be happy with a pop-up camper logic (a tent on wheels).  If you are, this is a great solution. 

With my FJ I get 20-21 MPG on the highway and 18.6 City on mid-grade gas.  Towing the E-1 on the highway my mileage dropped to 15.6 MPG - not bad!

Picture of the unit is attached, if I did it correctly.

Only reason I went to the Airstream Bambi 16' unit is: to encourage my wife to go with me; security for myself and my camera gear; at 60 years old I'm not as excited about a tent trailer as I would have been even 10 years ago; I'm just plain spoiled!

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Interesting.  What part of the country did you say you are in?  I spend a lot of time in the four corners region and have yet to come across a trail too narrow for the Land Cruiser.  The LC is about 3-4" narrower than most full size trucks and the turning radius is a few feet less.  There are narrow trails that I have seen, but for reasons other than narrowness, I'll probably never explore them. (Your truck does have a very long turning radius: >50ft compared to mine at <40ft.  The new Tundra is 44ft, f150 44, Silverado and Ram 47).  It might be a tight fit over some of the rockier sections, with leaning near boulders, etc.  The longer wheelbase might also cause breakover issues.  High-centering is a concern.

The Four Wheel Campers are notoriously light and not top heavy from what I hear.  Can anyone confirm their center of gravity is relatively low?  

I do love the FJ, but am concerned about the tent sided popup, about trailers "disappearing" and about dragging the thing off road.  I couldn't pull the E1 to places I like to visit.  Adventure Trailer- maybe.  Unfortunately, "desert rats" in the SW can steal just about anything while you are off on a short hike.  They bring bolt cutters, extra couplers, etc and can simply drive off with your trailer.  I'd hate to come back to that.  Not that I've seen it happen, but those stories float around.

FYI, the LC gets about 14mpg on average (87 octane).  16 on a flat highway.  Never more.  The new Tundra is supposed to do 14-18 on 87 gas.  I imagine with a heavy load it would be at or slightly below the low-end, so I wouldn't be giving up mpg, just not improving.

I certainly appreciate your expertise and experience.  Great advice to be considered.

[wheatridger]

Adventure Trailer- maybe.  Unfortunately, "desert rats" in the SW can steal just about anything while you are off on a short hike.  They bring bolt cutters, extra couplers, etc and can simply drive off with your trailer.  I'd hate to come back to that.  Not that I've seen it happen, but those stories float around.

FYI, the LC gets about 14mpg on average (87 octane).  16 on a flat highway.  Never more.  The new Tundra is supposed to do 14-18 on 87 gas.  I imagine with a heavy load it would be at or slightly below the low-end, so I wouldn't be giving up mpg, just not improving.

I certainly appreciate your expertise and experience.  Great advice to be considered.
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[/quote]

I'm sorry to hear that this is becoming a problem in the canyon country. My hitch lock would be pretty hard to get around. But if I was worried about this, I'd choose the most distinctive trailer I could find. Then I'd paint it in a distinctive color scheme. When I'm traveling, I see another Scamp/Casita-style trailer on the road no more than once a week, and perhaps a little more often sitting in camp. Sure, you could steal it and hide it in a garage, but what then? Anything can be fenced and turned into money, but a rare trailer would be more difficult than a common pop-up.

[Cruiser]

I'm sorry to hear that this is becoming a problem in the canyon country. My hitch lock would be pretty hard to get around. But if I was worried about this, I'd choose the most distinctive trailer I could find. Then I'd paint it in a distinctive color scheme. When I'm traveling, I see another Scamp/Casita-style trailer on the road no more than once a week, and perhaps a little more often sitting in camp. Sure, you could steal it and hide it in a garage, but what then? Anything can be fenced and turned into money, but a rare trailer would be more difficult than a common pop-up.
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[/quote]


Excellent point!

[henkc]

I was looking for something like that  

[jecxz]

Great shot!!!!!!!

[ljbphoto]

[attachment=1853:attachment]I always take "The Bus".

[Lust4Life]

I'm sorry to hear that this is becoming a problem in the canyon country. My hitch lock would be pretty hard to get around. But if I was worried about this, I'd choose the most distinctive trailer I could find. Then I'd paint it in a distinctive color scheme. When I'm traveling, I see another Scamp/Casita-style trailer on the road no more than once a week, and perhaps a little more often sitting in camp. Sure, you could steal it and hide it in a garage, but what then? Anything can be fenced and turned into money, but a rare trailer would be more difficult than a common pop-up.
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Excellent point!
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[/quote]

I've had no trouble with the FJ.  What I said was regarding the Ford F-250.

"There were many FS roads where my 2006 F-250 crew cab 4x4 diesel would not make a sharp curve and was too wide to feel safe on a narror trail with a steep cliff on one side. "

[elkhornsun]

I have owned and driven 4x4 vehicles for the past 40 years, and seldom except on a boat ramp or in deep snow, have I found myself in conditions that a front wheel drive vehicle with adequate ground clearance could not negotiate just as well and with a lot less wear and tear on the passengers.

One option I have used for areas far from home is to fly in and then rent a small RV or a 4x4 1 ton with a cabover camper. I don't waste time or money (gas, vehicle wear, food, and lodging) going to the area I want to explore. I just land, go pickup the rental which is always very low mileage and less than a year old, drive to the nearest supermarket to stock up on groceries and hit the road.  With a  14 day trip to Alaska (and I did 5 such trips) I spent 13 of those days in Alaska traveling around and taking pictures and fishing.

These RV rentals exist in many parts of the country and the vehicles can be taken into Canada and Mexico.

[Peter McLennan]

[attachment=1853:attachment]I always take "The Bus".
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Five, count 'em, FIVE air conditioners.  

[tahoecharm]

Thinking of buying an E1 but I have a 1995 Toyota T-100 (3.4 V6).  Anyone know how it will tow with that type of truck???