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Author Topic: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?  (Read 5267 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2018, 08:47:27 PM »

Illegal in the US as well; the Department of Labor filed a lawsuit against them, they denied the allegations, but they anyhow settled for 3.2 million dollars paid to the workers and agreed to a number of workplace practice commitments, so I would think it reasonable to assume that whatever it was is over with. One hopes, at least.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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TommyWeir

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2018, 05:51:42 AM »

We still have some smaller photography stores in Ireland, John Gunn's in Dublin stocks all the Canson and Permajet types, and I try to buy from them when I am in town.   But if I'm in a rush, I shop from Amazon.

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2018, 12:50:43 PM »

This is gonna be heretical, so I apologize in advance for both the heresy and the thread hijacking. But you guys seem to be very knowledgeable.
I'd like to know who makes the "Kirkland Professional Glossy Inkjet Photo Paper" that I see at Costco in the USA and Canada.


Likely the "lowest bidder".  Companies like Costco will put out a product spec and shop it around to paper suppliers and distributors.  The company that comes closest to the spec, for the lowest price, gets the business.  I strongly suspect we are looking at one or two years contracts (at best), so the specs and suppliers can turn over quite frequently.  No ICC profiles suggests to me that their target market segment is the unsophisticated user.  One would probably need to develop a custom profile for these papers and redo them every time one starts a new lot.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2018, 01:09:07 PM »

If you're talking about "unsophisticated" users (I wouldn't use that term), what it means is that they aren't aiming for pinpoint colour accuracy and all the money and work that goes into it - not their primary concern. They are aiming for pleasing colour that looks believable and therefore acceptable to them. They would likely let the Printer Manage Color, the main controllable variable determining quality being the choice of Media Type. So Costco paper may suit them just fine. As for Costco's contracting practices, unless working for the company or having some years of experience using their stuff, we don't know how consistently they enforce their specs on different bidders. But you know, I've seen prints a lot worse than what Costco produces in their own photo-finishing departments. A lot of it is surprisingly well done.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Jane

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2018, 10:03:30 AM »

If Hahnemuhle is sinking ( doubt it, though ), itís because of the hex I put on them for killing Harman. I  did buy up a supply of the Gloss FB AL when B & H discounted it but I am still looking for a replacement. I havenít yet found one that is really satisfactory, having falsely felt secure with my hoard of Harman and lazy. I do mean to try the newer Hahnemuhle Baryta and some others.

I recounted a while ago - a blink of a year and a half - that I had run test prints for a blind ( and non-technical ) comparison of the Harman Gloss with the two new ( at that time ) Epson Legacy reflective papers, including the Platine, plus the Canson Baryta Photographique. The prints looked simlar but to my eye and that of a photopher friend, there was no question but that the Harman produced the superior image. They were all printed with ImagePrint profiles: it may be that the Harmanís happened to be the best profile.

Of course there were some slings and arrows flung about here at the time - we are all passionate about printing - but I flog this deeply lamented dead horse because it happens that I just bought several ( black and white ) landscape photos taken originally with a 4X5 film camera and printed from the film by the house that the photographer, Marilyn Brown, has used to make wall-sized prints of her photos  ( which I think are magnificent ). I showed her my array of test prints ( same prints ) and she unerringly picked the Harman.

So I ask again, donít give me your Cansons, your Epsons, your strings of poloponies, does anyone have suggestions about papers comparable to the Harman?

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MHMG

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2018, 03:15:31 PM »


So I ask again, donít give me your Cansons, your Epsons, your strings of poloponies, does anyone have suggestions about papers comparable to the Harman?

Hahnemuhle claims that HN Gloss Baryta 320 is the re-introduction/reincarnation of the Harmon Gloss, but with improved coating for more flexibility and scratch resistance. You'd need to get a sample to see if the "new and improved" version keeps the overall image and surface qualities of the older Harman Gloss Baryta. Also, HN apparently has no plans to introduce a warm tone version like the Harman Warmtone Gloss, but the Warmtone Gloss was always a very odd paper, warm yet loaded with OBAs. Go figure!

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pearlstreet

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2018, 04:49:51 PM »

If Hahnemuhle is sinking ( doubt it, though ), itís because of the hex I put on them for killing Harman. I  did buy up a supply of the Gloss FB AL when B & H discounted it but I am still looking for a replacement. I havenít yet found one that is really satisfactory, having falsely felt secure with my hoard of Harman and lazy. I do mean to try the newer Hahnemuhle Baryta and some others.

I recounted a while ago - a blink of a year and a half - that I had run test prints for a blind ( and non-technical ) comparison of the Harman Gloss with the two new ( at that time ) Epson Legacy reflective papers, including the Platine, plus the Canson Baryta Photographique. The prints looked simlar but to my eye and that of a photopher friend, there was no question but that the Harman produced the superior image. They were all printed with ImagePrint profiles: it may be that the Harmanís happened to be the best profile.

Of course there were some slings and arrows flung about here at the time - we are all passionate about printing - but I flog this deeply lamented dead horse because it happens that I just bought several ( black and white ) landscape photos taken originally with a 4X5 film camera and printed from the film by the house that the photographer, Marilyn Brown, has used to make wall-sized prints of her photos  ( which I think are magnificent ). I showed her my array of test prints ( same prints ) and she unerringly picked the Harman.

So I ask again, donít give me your Cansons, your Epsons, your strings of poloponies, does anyone have suggestions about papers comparable to the Harman?

I agree, Jane. I love that paper. Let us know if you try the Hahnemuhle variation
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deanwork

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2018, 06:00:43 PM »


You need to try Freestyle in LA . Last time I checked they had a lot of it. My distributor told me they bought out the remaining Harmon stock. I bought some of the warmtone there.


If Hahnemuhle is sinking ( doubt it, though ), itís because of the hex I put on them for killing Harman. I  did buy up a supply of the Gloss FB AL when B & H discounted it but I am still looking for a replacement. I havenít yet found one that is really satisfactory, having falsely felt secure with my hoard of Harman and lazy. I do mean to try the newer Hahnemuhle Baryta and some others.

I recounted a while ago - a blink of a year and a half - that I had run test prints for a blind ( and non-technical ) comparison of the Harman Gloss with the two new ( at that time ) Epson Legacy reflective papers, including the Platine, plus the Canson Baryta Photographique. The prints looked simlar but to my eye and that of a photopher friend, there was no question but that the Harman produced the superior image. They were all printed with ImagePrint profiles: it may be that the Harmanís happened to be the best profile.

Of course there were some slings and arrows flung about here at the time - we are all passionate about printing - but I flog this deeply lamented dead horse because it happens that I just bought several ( black and white ) landscape photos taken originally with a 4X5 film camera and printed from the film by the house that the photographer, Marilyn Brown, has used to make wall-sized prints of her photos  ( which I think are magnificent ). I showed her my array of test prints ( same prints ) and she unerringly picked the Harman.

So I ask again, donít give me your Cansons, your Epsons, your strings of poloponies, does anyone have suggestions about papers comparable to the Harman?
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deanwork

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2018, 06:08:06 PM »



Yea the warmtone had much worse longevity than the bright white version, go figure.

HahnemŁhle rep left me a sample of the new gloss baryta and it looked like the Harmon. But it was a high contrast fashion portrait with maximum black areas next to pure white base and there was a lot of gloss differiental. It was probably printed with Epson inks. I didn't get any blank sheets to try on the HP which might have been ok. It may scratch less, which would be a huge improvement, but it still curls a lot.


Hahnemuhle claims that HN Gloss Baryta 320 is the re-introduction/reincarnation of the Harmon Gloss, but with improved coating for more flexibility and scratch resistance. You'd need to get a sample to see if the "new and improved" version keeps the overall image and surface qualities of the older Harman Gloss Baryta. Also, HN apparently has no plans to introduce a warm tone version like the Harman Warmtone Gloss, but the Warmtone Gloss was always a very odd paper, warm yet loaded with OBAs. Go figure!
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2018, 03:56:12 AM »

Hahnemuhle claims that HN Gloss Baryta 320 is the re-introduction/reincarnation of the Harmon Gloss, but with improved coating for more flexibility and scratch resistance. You'd need to get a sample to see if the "new and improved" version keeps the overall image and surface qualities of the older Harman Gloss Baryta. Also, HN apparently has no plans to introduce a warm tone version like the Harman Warmtone Gloss, but the Warmtone Gloss was always a very odd paper, warm yet loaded with OBAs. Go figure!

There were more Harman Warmtone papers. To avoid confusion; all the Harman Fiber/Baryta versions contained OBAs but the Harman by HM Gloss Art Fibre Warmtone 300gsm. Green plot in the screengrab of SpectrumViz.

The Harman by HM matt Fibre Duo 210gsm (not selected in the screengrab) is a relabeled Felix Schoeller quality also available as Innova IFA25 Decor Art and from more distributors. OBA free. Discussed here; http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=122733.20

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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deanwork

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2018, 09:33:27 AM »

Interesting. And the Inkpress warmtone smooth rag is a very nice paper and less expensive. It looks like something Schoeller might have coated too. The longevity on Wilhelms site is off the charts good. From my memory I think it is rated by him better than even Canson.

Someone was asking for a warmtone rag paper to make some big prints on recently so I researched what I could find. I had so much trouble with Innova in the past that I didn't consider them. The inkpress was the warmest I could find. Not "natural" but warm.

Ernst probably knows of others.

John



There were more Harman Warmtone papers. To avoid confusion; all the Harman Fiber/Baryta versions contained OBAs but the Harman by HM Gloss Art Fibre Warmtone 300gsm. Green plot in the screengrab of SpectrumViz.

The Harman by HM matt Fibre Duo 210gsm (not selected in the screengrab) is a relabeled Felix Schoeller quality also available as Innova IFA25 Decor Art and from more distributors. OBA free. Discussed here; http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=122733.20

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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unesco

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2018, 09:03:39 AM »

Yea the warmtone had much worse longevity than the bright white version, go figure.

[...] Also, HN apparently has no plans to introduce a warm tone version like the Harman Warmtone Gloss, but the Warmtone Gloss was always a very odd paper, warm yet loaded with OBAs. Go figure!

I am just curious, how do you know that Harman warmtone papers are much worse in longevity than bright version? Why odd? Baryta one does not have significant load of OBA, just some.
For me (subjectively) Harman Gloss Baryta Warmtone paper is the best paper I have ever used with Epsons for B&W printing, especially, when pure neutrality is not a must. Similar refers to Harman Gloss Art Fibre Warmtone, but this is more difficult to handle and disign proper QTR curves.
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deanwork

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2018, 09:35:37 AM »

From the longevity tests  at Aardenburg Imaging. Mark just referred to this in this thread.

It's ODD because, papers that have dye optical brighteners are typically brighter white and designed to show more highlight contrast in the paper base. Most warm papers have better longevity than their brighter "whiter" versions. But not in this case which is the opposite. That is what is odd. There was one cotton warm rag media years ago, Concorde Rag that a lot of us loved. But it too suffered in the fade tests. The highlights actually bleached out in daylight but continue to look good in dark storage. I still have some prints  that look great. They were totally unique. But it was also discontinued after about 5 years. And no one came along with a replacement until this Inkpress warmtone came out. 

Like I said there should be a place for a great archivally stable warmtone fiber gloss paper. I've just never seen one.

You might try the Innova warmtone. I don't think it is very stable either but you can check it out. From my memory like 12 years ago it was pretty nice. In dark storage for portfolios it could be fine.

The Inkpress matte warmtone rag appears to be the one high quality really warm media that holds up in the long term, at least according to Wilhelm.

Somebody needs to change the name of this thread. It's way off topic now. HahnemŁhle is fine.


John






I am just curious, how do you know that Harman warmtone papers are much worse in longevity than bright version? Why odd? Baryta one does not have significant load of OBA, just some.
For me (subjectively) Harman Gloss Baryta Warmtone paper is the best paper I have ever used with Epsons for B&W printing, especially, when pure neutrality is not a must. Similar refers to Harman Gloss Art Fibre Warmtone, but this is more difficult to handle and disign proper QTR curves.
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pearlstreet

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2018, 11:25:02 AM »

I would like a thread name change too. It would be fairer to Hahnemuhle not to have a thread about their imminent demise show up in google.
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Stephan_Pawloski

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2018, 09:48:53 PM »

Well, you could always start a new thread that is more inline with your current topic.
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Stephan Pawloski
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Stephan_Pawloski

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2018, 11:16:17 PM »

Also, for the record, within 48 hours of this thread starting, I received a call from a Hahnemuhle distributor / rep at Amplis Foto. I was in the field at the time, but he left a message asking if I had any further questions. I had my questions answered here already and didn't need to take up any of his time, but there are very few companies that will give proactive service to a one person business like this, so major kudos to Amplis.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Is Hahnemuhle losing favor? Sinking ship?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2018, 08:56:27 AM »

Also, for the record, within 48 hours of this thread starting, I received a call from a Hahnemuhle distributor / rep at Amplis Foto. I was in the field at the time, but he left a message asking if I had any further questions. I had my questions answered here already and didn't need to take up any of his time, but there are very few companies that will give proactive service to a one person business like this, so major kudos to Amplis.
I also received a note from a Hahnemuhle rep who is monitoring this thread.  It's no secret that I've done some work with Aardenburg on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Ultra Smooth and the Epson 3880.  He thanked me for that.

Alan
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