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Author Topic: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...  (Read 37745 times)

32BT

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2018, 03:59:04 am »

Now go and sit quietly by yourself and think about what you've just said. Come back when you're truly sorry.

He very apparently spends $$ on old gear instead...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2018, 04:45:37 am »

Now go and sit quietly by yourself and think about what you've just said. Come back when you're truly sorry.

Yes, really! ;)

As if being at the right place at the right time had anything to do with successful photography...

Cheers,
Bernard

Rob C

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2018, 05:04:50 am »

Yes, really! ;)

As if being at the right place at the right time had anything to do with successful photography...

Cheers,
Bernard

That's the only reason all lenses worth tuppence are fitted with a magical f8 number on the barrel!

These technically-obsessive "conversations" get more funny by the day.

Anybody wanting to buy an Atget should be certified! The man used such primitive equipmemt his work simply can't be any good. As for poor old Michael Kenna, he uses 6x6 film, and that's so bad he can almost never enlarge above 8"x10"!

;-)

Rob

Rand47

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2018, 10:43:40 am »

Quote
vision would remain unchanged, his results "better."

Gratified to see “better” in quotes.  Lately I’ve been looking at images from my favorite photographers of previous generations and am beginning to feel as though the “imperfections” (often a bit soft, limited dynamic range, etc.) actually add to their visual impact.  I wonder, if those same images had been produced with the best modern digital equipment, might look a bit sterile? 

Rand
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Rand Scott Adams

Rob C

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2018, 11:04:33 am »

Gratified to see “better” in quotes.  Lately I’ve been looking at images from my favorite photographers of previous generations and am beginning to feel as though the “imperfections” (often a bit soft, limited dynamic range, etc.) actually add to their visual impact.  I wonder, if those same images had been produced with the best modern digital equipment, might look a bit sterile

Rand

+ 100%

Yes, I think that underlines so much that I feel is missing in contemporary photography: soul. Who ever saw a crisp spirit?

Rob

32BT

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2018, 12:38:51 pm »

Yes, but then the question presents itself: what digital cameras from recent past exhibit actual character? And perhaps more importantly: what lenses?
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KLaban

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2018, 01:01:00 pm »

Yes, but then the question presents itself: what digital cameras from recent past exhibit actual character? And perhaps more importantly: what lenses?

Forget the bodies, they're all perfect and perfectly boring. The lenses are key.

For example the Noctilux 50 & now 75, both sadly out of my price range, but the 50 Zeiss Sonnar is affordable and has bags of character. Or use bodies and or adaptors that allow the use of vintage lenses.

That said, it seems the majority of users here pray at the altar of perfection.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 01:30:31 pm by KLaban »
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Rob C

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2018, 02:09:31 pm »

Yes, but then the question presents itself: what digital cameras from recent past exhibit actual character? And perhaps more importantly: what lenses?

I don't think your question has a positive answer, Oscar, and neither do I think Keith has quite put his finger on it. It is not, IMO, bodies or lenses, but digital capture that is the weak stage in this particular goose chase.

The problem is that many of us still associate "character" with film photography and film fomat. Digital is another beast entirely, and a wonderful one at that, but it is a different one. A horse, not even Moira - and she's white - can ever be a zebra. Only half a zebra.

And I don't think it's anything much to do with that magical quality, bokeh. I never in my life heard about it when working. Which isn't to say we didn't know about the effects of DOF, OOF areas and how these looked in the highlights, and how wide apertures could add a little magic to some images. We just used the lenses we had, and were happy enough with that without adding layer upon layer of doubt onto ourselves. Bokeh obsession is just another thing that can make people victims of this pixel-peeping society where nothing is ever good enough to be the picture you needed or want. That seems to be the challenge: fight yourself until you drop; much more fun than making photographs to show something that you had in your mind or just stumbled upon. Always find a reason why the thing isn't great, and the brand that would make it great.

That's partly why I almost always try to eff-up the otherwise clinical look of my photography. But I'm not working to sell anything, so my take today is probably the opposite of what it might have been many years ago when all of us in commercial work tried for reasonably fine grain unless for specific uses.

Rob
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 03:18:13 pm by Rob C »
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KLaban

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2018, 02:39:07 pm »

I don't think your question has a positive answer, Oscar, and neither do I think Keith has quite put his finger on it. It is not, IMO, bodies or lenses, but digital capture that is the weak stage in this particular goose chase.

The problem is that many of us still associate "character" with film photography and film fomat. Digital is another beast entirely, and a wonderful one at that, but it is a different one. A horse, not even Moira - and she's white - can ever be a zebra. Only half a zebra.

And I don't think it's anything much to do with that magical quality, bokeh. I never in my life heard about it when working. Which isn't to say we didn't know about the effects of DOF, OOF areas and how these looked in the highlights, and how wide apertures could add a little magic to some images. We just used the lenses we had, and were happy enough with that without adding layer upon layer of doubt onto ourselves. Bokeh obsession is just another thing that can make people victims of this pixel-peeping society where nothing is ever good enough to be the picture you needed or want. That seems to be the challenge: fight yourself until you drop; much more fun than making photographs to show something that you had in your mind or just stumbled upon. Always find a reason why the thing isn't great, and the brand that would make it great.

That's partly why I almost always try to eff-up the otherwise clinical look of my photography. But I'm not working to sell anything, so my take today is probably the opposite of what it might have been many years ago when all of us in commercial work tried for reasonably fine grain umless for specific uses.

Rob

Actually when I look at the majority of my work shot on film it looks very clinical.

Anyways, here's to effing it up.



There again perhaps this is too clinically effed ;-)
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2018, 03:06:10 pm »

... A horse, not even Moira - and she's white - can ever be a zebra. Only half a zebra.

Apparently, zebras are black with white stripes, so Moira would be better off starting out as black rather than white. I'll let you tell her.

Rob C

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2018, 03:07:15 pm »

Well, clinical or not, this from today and as effed as I thought I could get away with effing it up! Probably would have been effed without my indulgence, but hey, it's all in the mind! Innit?

:-)

Rob

Rob C

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2018, 03:09:41 pm »

Apparently, zebras are black with white stripes, so Moira would be better off starting out as black rather than white. I'll let you tell her.


Poor cow - then she hasn't a chance of retiring at Whipsnade!

:-)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2018, 04:08:47 pm »

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/01/14/nikon-1-the-little-camera-that-could.aspx/#more-118855

A timely contribution that hghlghts both the qualities of the Nikon 1 series and the possbility to take great images with a sensor that’s behind the cutting edge.

Chees,
Bernard

shadowblade

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2018, 04:38:24 pm »

Fairly close to the D800 which was only behind the D4 and 1DX at the time.

The 32mm f1.2 used as a portrat lens offered very limited DoF, as anyone who has actually shot with a 35mm f1.4 at close range should be able to figure out.

Cheers,
Bernard

AF-wise, the D800 was also behind the 5D3, 7D and D300s, (not to mention the older D3x, D3, D3s, D700 and 1D4, which were still around at the time and represented the older generation the D800 and D4 replaced). AF was not a strength of the D800 - the D810 corrected that. Fine for still subjects, even at shallow DOF, but not so fine for tracking moving ones.

32mm f/1.2 gives you the equivalent of around 85mm f/3.2. That's not a particularly shallow DOF, and, combined with not having much glass to move, doesn't make for a particularly challenging task for an AF system. Even my (very) old Canon 300D - pretty much bought as an experiment while moving away from film - could focus accurately with that (50mm f/1.8, stopped down to f/2, would be the equivalent for a 1.6x crop camera such as the 300D).

Yes, really! ;)

As if being at the right place at the right time had anything to do with successful photography...

Better gear increases the opportunities and expands the definition of 'right time'.

The relevant question is not whether you can get good shots with old gear, but how many opportunities were missed - or not even considered opportunities in the first place - because they were outside the shooting window of the gear available at the time. It's not for no reason that many old-time sports shots were non-action shots on the winning podium, or taken during the daytime in good light.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2018, 05:47:46 pm »

AF-wise, the D800 was also behind the 5D3, 7D and D300s, (not to mention the older D3x, D3, D3s, D700 and 1D4, which were still around at the time and represented the older generation the D800 and D4 replaced).

Absolutely not, the D800 was clearly ahead of the 5D3, 7D and D300s. This was totally clear in all objective tests performed at the time and matches my own experience as well.

Let's not re-write history.

Anyway, this is drifting pretty far from the topic of this thread but my point remains that Nikon has excellent credentials also in mirrorless AF, and already had these 6+ years ago when the 1 series was introduced. Even at a slow pace of innovation odds are that their first serious mirrorless body will have excellent AF performance.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 06:46:38 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2018, 07:36:35 pm »

Absolutely not, the D800 was clearly ahead of the 5D3, 7D and D300s. This was totally clear in all objective tests performed at the time and matches my own experience as well.

Uh, no. AF and high ISO were the D800's two deficiencies compared to the 5D3. It was better in every other area. Read almost any comparison from 2012.

I was hoping to use the D800 as a combined landscape and wildlife camera at the time (given its high pixel density). It didn't live up to that expectation - I kept going with the 7D for wildlife, since everything else either lacked the AF or the pixel density (1Dx for larger animals and closer distances).

The D850 and A7r3 are a completely different story. I would use either of those bodies for almost everything.
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Two23

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Re: Nikon mirrorless FF body nearing - new mount...
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2018, 08:45:36 pm »

Now go and sit quietly by yourself and think about what you've just said. Come back when you're truly sorry.


I assume you're being tongue in cheek. ;D  I do spend money on photo gear of course, both old and new.  I used to chase the latest "hot" camera of the year, only to find not only did the resell value drop like a rock, they just didn't improve my photos.   I mean, not that anyone could really tell.  We've reached a sort of plateau where the difference in image quality from gen-5 camera and gen-6  just isn't there (or at least not worth the $3,200 price tag.)  So, about six years ago I began diving into photo history and discovered all kinds of famous photographers I've never heard of before--Brassai, FJ Haynes, AJ Russell, E.O. Hoppe, E. Anthony.....the list is long!  Their images and stories have truly inspired me!  I began buying a few old cameras here and there, starting innocently enough with a 1904 Kodak Brownie #2.  I really enjoy learning about them & their times, and using them to create my own images.  The most expensive lens I own doesn't say "Nikon" on it--it says "Voigtlander & Sohn."  It's a Petzval made in Wien (Vienna) in 1847!  While my Nikon gear (including Sigma ART lenses) steadily loses value, my ancient stuff has slowly increased.  In the end, for me, it's all about going out into the world, having something catch my eye (or imagination,) and then try to capture it so I can share it with others later.  Once I came to understand that it's possible to make interesting images with any camera gear from any age, I feel like I've been somehow liberated. :)


Below photo:
Corporal Brad of the 143rd Minnesota Volunteers
Camera: Chamonix 045n
Lens: 1845 Ross Petzval (6 inch, f3.5)
Film:  Efke 25

Q:  would my Nikon D800E with 50mm Sigma ART have captured this "better"?


Kent in SD
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 09:41:32 pm by Two23 »
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