Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Down

Author Topic: iMac Pro  (Read 19048 times)

DP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 464
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2017, 04:27:55 PM »

Yes, there are reports the RAM is not soldered in but is "not user upgradeable".  That likely means that once your warranty expires you could take it to a shop and have them upgrade the RAM for you.

promotional image as a source of rumours shows sockets, w/ a note that final design might still be soldered (or Apple can switch between soldered to sockets or from sockets to soldered during the production run as they please)  =

Logged

Dan Wells

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 832
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2017, 12:36:43 AM »

Not user-replaceable in Apple-speak means "you have to take the back (or the front) off to get to it". iMacs come in three difficulty levels to get at the RAM - apart from a few which use soldered RAM, and are literally impossible to upgrade short of changing the motherboard (only viable if you have a higher-RAM iMac of the same model with, say, a cracked screen).
Just for context, I am NOT a technician, but I'd consider myself an advanced user, and have been inside a lot of computers and even built a few over the years. I'd comfortably change memory or a drive in most computers where it isn't soldered in, and I'd change a motherboard on most desktops and even many laptops.
We know the iMac Pro isn't in the easiest group - the "Apple provides a hatch, and considers the RAM user replaceable" cohort that includes all 27" models except the iMac Pro, and certain others (many of the smaller aluminum models before the tapered edge generation). These are easy - somewhere between inserting a video game cartridge and changing a video card in a tower PC. Very little of the computer is exposed - just the RAM slots. Actually getting the DIMMs to seat ranges from easy to frustrating depending on the model. I can get most of the newer ones first time, every time - but some of the early aluminum models with the hatch on the bottom instead of the back had tricky slots where it was easy to get the RAM halfway in and have to open up again to reseat it.
Some of the supposedly non user-replaceable RAM in iMacs is, in fact, not that hard to do.The intermediate difficulty group involve taking the back of the Mac off. I've done a bunch of these, and can do them in about half an hour with a negligible chance of breaking the machine (I'd do one  that was still under warranty, no problem). The warranty (of course) doesn't cover you if you break it while replacing the RAM, but you don't lose the warranty if you do the RAM successfully and something else later breaks. You do fully expose the motherboard, just like replacing RAM in a regular desktop, and you sometimes need to be careful of one or more stupid little cables leading to the rear I/O ports. The RAM is on the first side of the motherboard you see, so you don't have to take the motherboard out.
Other iMac models (including the latest 21.5" models)  can only be gotten open by removing the screen, and that's much scarier. I've never done one of these, and I'd only be willing to do it on a machine that was no longer under warranty. Basically, you pull the screen off with suction cups (after cutting some tape), then end up facing the wrong side of the motherboard. You have to remove the motherboard to get at the RAM slots, then reassemble everything. That's a huge pain, and it's possible to crack the screen in the process.
If you happen to have a motherboard with more RAM handy, the impossible iMacs are actually slightly easier than the difficult ones - they're also accessed through the screen, and you still take the motherboard out. The only difference is that you simply exchange the motherboard instead of adding RAM before putting it back in. The only way it would be economical is if you had a compatible motherboard with more RAM from an iMac with a different problem (or possibly if you could somehow get ahold of one as a service part that had both more RAM and a substantially faster processor - there may be a model where you could go from dual-core to quad-core - it looks like this may be true in some of the Late 2015 models?) It's unlikely that you'd ever exchange a functioning motherboard just to add RAM.
We know the iMac Pro is not in the impossible category - the RAM is, at least, socketed. The access to all other tapered edge iMacs is through the screen; and I don't see any screw holes on the back, so I'd guess this one may be as well. Who knows what else is socketed? It looks like, under the cooler, the processor might be. I'm assuming the two plates leading off the cooler in the middle are the CPU on the left (between the RAM sockets) and GPU on the right. There have actually been a few iMacs (and numerous other Macs) where socketed processors made upgrades possible. It would make sense if the processor were socketed - not least because it saves the expensive (as much as $2500 in the case of an 18-core) Xeon when a 35-cent USB port blows and needs a motherboard swap. If the SSD is socketed, it is either under the daughtercard by the GPU  or on the screen side of the motherboard - it's not visible in the standard internal image. The GPU is almost certainly highly non-standard - it may be socketed, but good luck finding anything that fits!
I wouldn't try upgrading one of these myself unless the back turns out to come off - if you do get in through the screen, the RAM is on the wrong side of the motherboard - it clearly faces the back of the machine.  A $5000 - $13000 machine that requires pulling a 27" screen off with suction cups and removing a motherboard that seems to have hoses connecting the CPU and GPU to a cooling system (is it liquid cooled?) seems to be the kind of nightmare best left to Authorized Service Providers.
Logged

Kirk_C

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 189
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2017, 02:18:30 PM »

Dan my previous reply to your post was deemed rude. I apologize if I came across that way. That was not my intention.

I just find densely keyed in text with no breaks very difficult to read and no matter how useful the information I pass on such posts.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 12:16:33 AM by Kirk_C »
Logged

traderjay

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 82
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2017, 02:52:29 PM »

Another joke or "toy" wrapped with the "pro" nomenclature to separate the fool and its money...
Logged

Dan Wells

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 832
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2017, 04:03:16 PM »

Depends on what you're trying to do... It's really aimed at video pros, for whom the DCI-P3 gamut is ideal, and no conceivable amount of internal storage could be enough (they use NAS boxes or big Thunderbolt RAIDs). The Radeon Vega and the 10 GB Ethernet are great features for that market.

For photographers, the gamut and monitor quality are a disappointment - it won't pry our Eizos from our eyes... Many photographers would use internal storage if there were drive bays, and not everybody needs the Radeon Vega. I think the 10 GB Ethernet is very forward-looking, since more and more NAS boxes will use it.

The processor specs are certainly not a toy - if anything, they're overkill for a lot of workloads.
Logged

BJL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6322
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2017, 09:07:30 PM »

Depends on what you're trying to do... It's really aimed at video pros, ...
Video, along with music production, virtual reality and other 3D graphics work, judging by the software released and promoted along with the iMac Pro release. Our boring old motionless photography is no longer driving the market.
Logged

traderjay

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 82
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2017, 10:20:32 PM »

Depends on what you're trying to do... It's really aimed at video pros, for whom the DCI-P3 gamut is ideal, and no conceivable amount of internal storage could be enough (they use NAS boxes or big Thunderbolt RAIDs). The Radeon Vega and the 10 GB Ethernet are great features for that market.

For photographers, the gamut and monitor quality are a disappointment - it won't pry our Eizos from our eyes... Many photographers would use internal storage if there were drive bays, and not everybody needs the Radeon Vega. I think the 10 GB Ethernet is very forward-looking, since more and more NAS boxes will use it.

The processor specs are certainly not a toy - if anything, they're overkill for a lot of workloads.

Real video pros don't use mac, they use dual XEON systems and ultra fast flash arrays to handle RAW 444 videos. This is just a "toy" in a black shell because apple is desparately trying to revive their workstation market after the botched trashcan. Last but not least, one of the best video/color grading software Davinci Resolve isn't optimized for Radeon, its a 100% cuda software.
Logged

Farmer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2851
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2017, 11:08:33 PM »

Quote
Workstation - DUAL XEON E5-2696v4 | ASUS STRIX GeForce GTX 1080Ti OC | Triple NEC PA301W | Crucial 64GB DDR4 ECC | ASUS Z10PE-D16 WS | 1TB Samsung 960 Pro M.2 NVME
FreeNAS & Plex Server - XEON E3 1265L V3 | Supermicro X10SAE | 16GB DDR3 ECC | 6 X 3TB HGST 7K4000 Ultrastar RAIDZ2 | 3 X 3TB HGST 7K400

I think that says it all...
Logged
Phil Brown

Jeremy Roussak

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7403
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2017, 03:20:33 AM »

Real video pros don't use mac, they use dual XEON systems and ultra fast flash arrays to handle RAW 444 videos. This is just a "toy" in a black shell because apple is desparately trying to revive their workstation market after the botched trashcan. Last but not least, one of the best video/color grading software Davinci Resolve isn't optimized for Radeon, its a 100% cuda software.

Is the point of your supremely silly signature to indicate that you are a "real" professional? I can't imagine it can be intended to serve any other purpose.

Jeremy
Logged
(formerly kikashi)

Kevin Gallagher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 763
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2017, 06:40:24 AM »

 People, I asked when starting this thread that we keep the hardware wars out of it. Traderjay, I'm talking to you, enough!!

  Kevin in CT
Logged
Kevin In CT
All Animals Are Equal But Some Are More Equal
 George Orwell

davidgp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 755
    • davidgp fotografia
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #70 on: December 22, 2017, 03:08:38 AM »

Real video pros don't use mac, they use dual XEON systems and ultra fast flash arrays to handle RAW 444 videos. This is just a "toy" in a black shell because apple is desparately trying to revive their workstation market after the botched trashcan. Last but not least, one of the best video/color grading software Davinci Resolve isn't optimized for Radeon, its a 100% cuda software.

About DaVinci Resolve it is not true, Resolve is optimized for Cuda and OpenCL. If a NVIDIA card is there they use Cuda if not OpenCL.





http://dgpfotografia.com

Kevin Gallagher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 763
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #71 on: December 22, 2017, 09:11:10 AM »

Logged
Kevin In CT
All Animals Are Equal But Some Are More Equal
 George Orwell

traderjay

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 82
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #72 on: December 22, 2017, 10:23:59 AM »

About DaVinci Resolve it is not true, Resolve is optimized for Cuda and OpenCL. If a NVIDIA card is there they use Cuda if not OpenCL.


http://dgpfotografia.com

Except it runs much better on CUDA vs OpenCL - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQg8Dszb7Tc

This is also why you see Davinci users with multiple 1080ti/Titan/Quadros - something the "toy" mac utterly fails to support. If Apple wants to tout this "toy" as a real video editing workhorse, at least align the hardware with the intended purposes.
Logged

Farmer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2851
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #73 on: December 22, 2017, 03:58:27 PM »

Except it runs much better on CUDA vs OpenCL - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQg8Dszb7Tc

Except you claimed it was 100% CUDA, which it's not.  You also linked to a YouTube as authoritative support of your current performance claim.  Both actions speak volumes.

Honestly, at this point, I doubt anyone has any interest in your opinion about anything, and with good cause.
Logged
Phil Brown

Kevin Raber

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1345
  • Kevin Raber
    • Kevin Raber
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #74 on: December 22, 2017, 06:32:31 PM »

There is a lot of drifting off topic.  Why does it have to always be a MAC vs PC?  Keep in on topic and polite or the topic gets locked.
Logged
Kevin Raber
kwr@rabereyes.com
rockhopperworkshops.com

mwolfer1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2017, 07:32:18 PM »

Returning to topic: I believe Matt Granger's take is the most balanced so far https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZqt5mQ0eoQ

In short:
Nice brand conforming design
High end specs (the $13k version) are way over the top for photography
Priced component by component there is a significant markup compared to PC alternatives
Tight encapsulation and thermal design are suspicious if all out video processing is the main task
Lack of extensibility is an issue

I dread the thought to switch to a Windows platform when I outgrow my Apple trashcan, just because Apple has lost its way and doesn't understand what high compute demand users need. Maybe a Hackintosh is the alternative.  8)

Logged

plugsnpixels

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 555
    • http://www.plugsandpixels.com
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2017, 11:06:24 PM »

There is a lot of drifting off topic.  Why does it have to always be a MAC vs PC?  Keep in on topic and polite or the topic gets locked.

That's exactly right. If you have a Mac, you can run Windows. If you have PC hardware, you can run a Hackintosh. If you have either, you can also run Linux.

I have both ;-)
Logged
Digital imaging blog:
www.plugsandpixels.com/blog

Kirk_C

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 189
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #77 on: December 23, 2017, 12:16:09 AM »

That's exactly right. If you have a Mac, you can run Windows. If you have PC hardware, you can run a Hackintosh. If you have either, you can also run Linux.

I have both ;-)

Running Windows on a Mac is so easy it's hard to understand anyone debating it but the Hackintosh and Linux stuff definitely takes you into the computer geek realm. I don't think if you're going to be an accomplished photographer you've got time to go that route, unless of course you just find it fun. Then it's just another hobby.

As for Apple loosing their way, creating over priced pretty boxes or not delivering machines for the serious production scenario that happened a long time ago. Their a consumer product company with great success, one that's not likely to ever put function before form again. Why would they ?

I've been a Mac user since 1984 and simultaneously used Windows because each serves it's purpose. The platform debate is pointless and fruitless, has been for years.

I'm posting from my W10 laptop, works fine for practical PC use. I just ordered the fastest non-pro 27" iMac with an SD internal drive. I'll chuck the 8GB of RAM and put in 64GB myself, run NEC's big display with Spectraview for real color and a NAS by ethernet. Maybe in the next 2 years while I enjoy it Apple will get a better pro machine out or even just make RAM user accessible in the iMac Pro. Either would be nice. Neither are anything I'd expect any time soon.
Logged

budjames

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 816
    • http://www.budjamesphotography.com
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #78 on: December 23, 2017, 04:32:18 AM »

I ordered the iMac Pro 8-core base model with 64gb RAM and 2TB SSD upgrades. According the shipping notice from Apple, it should arrive around 12/28. Nice Christmas present to myself.

My current photo workstation is a 3 year old iMac 27" 5k with 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD. It still works great, but I want more speed for my CaptureOne Pro 11 based workflow.

Regards,
Bud James

www.budjames.photography
Logged
Bud James
North Wales, PA [url=http://ww

Kevin Raber

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1345
  • Kevin Raber
    • Kevin Raber
Re: iMac Pro
« Reply #79 on: December 23, 2017, 07:14:24 AM »

Like you Bud, mine arrive the 28th.
Logged
Kevin Raber
kwr@rabereyes.com
rockhopperworkshops.com
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Up