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Author Topic: A7r3 announcement tonight  (Read 571342 times)

davidgp

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2017, 10:07:15 AM »

henrikfoto

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2017, 11:05:17 AM »

 ::)  That is very impressive ::)

close or even better than Phase ones Lamborghini ::)
If Phase one donˋt come up with a multishot they will be
beaten with Sonys next camera. Sony 4.000 us$  Phase one 40.000$ ??
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 02:16:37 PM by henrikfoto »
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TimoK

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2017, 11:38:46 AM »

Why there are so strong CA's in the corners of studio comparison? A7r3 looks less sharp there than r2 which has clean color.
Maybe lens? Raw processing?
The moire or lack of moire in color wheels is great.
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henrikfoto

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2017, 12:14:53 PM »

I think the software is still in the fist stage. Should be resolved easy.
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davidgp

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2017, 05:07:45 PM »

Why there are so strong CA's in the corners of studio comparison? A7r3 looks less sharp there than r2 which has clean color.
Maybe lens? Raw processing?
The moire or lack of moire in color wheels is great.

Hi,

They are using different lens for the test, with the A7r II the FE 55mm and with the A7r III the FE 85mm 1.8, so I will not use those image to compare the sharpeness of the system... since the lens will be a key factor, pixel-shift or not. Not sure if the CA is due to the moire or the Sony software, I don't remember the FE 85mm 1.8 in the reviews to be very problematic with CA so maybe the software...

For me what it is a bit missleading is the initial example of DPReview, Sony already said that it takes around two seconds to take a picture using Pixel Shift, so I think outside reproduction work or still photography studio work, this feature will be very restricted, a small breeze moving leafs or grass will ruing the photo with strange artifacts...

Regards,

David

henrikfoto

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2017, 05:38:48 PM »

But strangely if you see the person in the window, he is close to sharp. How can that be with long exposures and even 4 of them?
Some of the persons show art effects, but some not much at all.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 05:45:49 PM by henrikfoto »
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alan_b

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2017, 05:47:12 PM »

But strangely if you see the person in the window he is sharp. How can that be with long exposures and even 4 of them?

If you look around there's another person who was moving, resulting in strong artifacts.
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henrikfoto

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2017, 05:56:36 PM »

Yes, I saw that too. The slow workers are the best ;)
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32BT

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2017, 02:23:33 AM »

Doesn't seem to be CA, seems to be horribly misaligned. Notice that the colorshift is similar on all sides of the frame.

What I don't really get is why this is suddenly earthshattering technology? It has already been shown to work well by other brands, and quite frankly, from the DPReview samples, the Pentax seems to provide the most pleasing results so far. 
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32BT

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2017, 02:57:05 AM »

I wouldn't be surprised if what they do is simply demosaic 4 raw files and then combine them.

The horizontal red-green shift is a result of a likely misalignment, but the meandering colorshift would be typical for demosaicing.

Note it seems that only the Pentax result currently shows what can be achieved with this technology and thus its corresponding advantages.
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~ O ~
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henrikfoto

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2017, 04:11:17 AM »

I think this is just some start-problems with the software. Very soon we will see.
I expect the multishot Sony to be the best we have so far. Another thing:
We know from Sinar multishot that this demands the very best lenses.
Sony ms with an Otus lens would be more correct.
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andre_m

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2017, 05:22:59 AM »

Imaging Edge is downloadable.

Imaging Edge


André

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Kevin Raber

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2017, 11:37:54 AM »

I have been with Sony all week.  Did a number of tests and have results to share. No worthwhile internet here.  I'm driving home from AZ over the next few days.  I'll explain what I know and my experience with Pixel shift on my return. 
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Paul2660

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2017, 12:09:36 PM »

Why there are so strong CA's in the corners of studio comparison? A7r3 looks less sharp there than r2 which has clean color.
Maybe lens? Raw processing?
The moire or lack of moire in color wheels is great.

Not quite, unless you have a solid or non moving subject.  The same issues appear to apply to Sony's solution, (which IMO is much less attractive than Pentax or Olympus).  However that is up to the user.

The single biggest drawback to any pixel shift solution, is that none of the software can account for very much movement between the frames.  In landscape work, this is very important, as even cloud movement can create aliasing, and leaves with much wind, all bets are off.  And of course you are still required to use a tripod which may or may not be a big issue.

P1 has plenty of room left with 100MP as you can do a lot with a single 100MP file. 

I used the K1 for over a year, loved the camera and the files.  Pixel shift made me a believer, but the lack of both good raw conversion from either Adobe or Phase One (C1), pushes you out to the 3rd party solutions, none of which have the toolsets I am looking for. 

From looking at the first attempts on the Sony, I am seeing the same issues as Pentax.  So hopefully Sony can push forward a better software conversion.  But if the Sony software that has to be run only outputs as a jpg or tif, again you have lost a lot of file leverage.  The best solution will be to see Adobe or C1 or both have some internal process that can take the 4 raw files, and convert them to a single raw (similar to how Pentax does this in camera).

But still you have the same problems as always, i.e. movement.  And folks, if you think that the Electronic shutter solutions from Phase or Fuji have problems, try shooting a pixel shift on a windy day even a slight breeze will cause aliasing that is mostly not correctable even with the solutions not from Adobe.  The ES handles this type of movement much better at least from what I have seen. 

There is no doubt however that when the conditions allowed it the Pixel shift output from Pentax was superior to anything I have seen from a 35mm DSLR, both in resolution and noise.  The files are considerably cleaner, at all ISO ranges.

So I wish Sony the best with their solution, but I don't see P1 getting to worried about it, they have other problems to contend with in MF currently.

Paul Caldwell
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2017, 12:26:19 PM »


There is no doubt however that when the conditions allowed it the Pixel shift output from Pentax was superior to anything I have seen from a 35mm DSLR, both in resolution and noise.  The files are considerably cleaner, at all ISO ranges.

Paul Caldwell

I too experimented, first with the Pentax K3 and later with the Pentax K1. As a close-up still photographer, I liked what I saw with the pixel-shift   implemented in the Pentax cameras, but I did not like my lens choices. I went to considerable trouble (and expense) to find non-Pentax lenses like the Voigtlander 90mm APO and the Voigtlander 125mm APL-Lanthar so that I could be more sure as to what I was seeing. I really liked the pixel-shift, but ultimately (for me) the K1 was not worth the trouble I had to go to and was very unfriendly with my Otus lenses, etc.

If the Sony A7r3 (or its software) only produces a JPp, I won't keep that camera either. If it produces a TIF, I will have to see. What I need is a raw file to play with. Are you or anyone stating that on the A7R3 we won't get a raw file? Where can I read this, if stated.
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Paul2660

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2017, 12:47:13 PM »

No I am not stating that the Sony software produces only a non raw file.  I don't know what it produces.  However knowing Sony, I will be surprised if it does produce a raw file, pleasantry.  And if it is a raw file, you still may the same issues with Adobe or C1 that the K1 files did.

I have no idea.  Staying away from it, wasted enough money on the K1 and that path.

Paul Caldwell
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2017, 12:56:08 PM »


Staying away from it, wasted enough money on the K1 and that path.

Paul Caldwell

Ditto. I could not agree more. I am still selling off pieces of Pentax-related equipment. I have a nice Voigtlander 90mm APO lens in Pentax moun t if anyone is looking for one.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: A7r3 announcement tonight
« Reply #77 on: November 22, 2017, 06:27:26 PM »

https://m.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review/8

Great review of the a7rIII!

Cheers,
Bernard
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