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Author Topic: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user  (Read 12618 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2017, 11:32:57 am »

quite right.  A point that I've tried to make is that there are options available today if one wants to stay with LR6 (provided no new cameras are in the equation) or even stop paying the subscription for current LR CC.  If only the develop module is disabled one can still stay on LR for the DAM and printing abilities and use an external program such as Affinity Photo to do the developing tasks.  Sure it's a somewhat convoluted but not like adding a hodgepodge of different programs.  For those on LR6 'perpetual' one doesn't have some of the new features that the subscribers have but it will still do more the 90% of what users need.  This way one can keep their powder dry to see what Affinity or MacPhun do with their DAM/develop programs that are supposed to be released in 2018.  If they are not as robust as LR one can always subscribe to LR and move forward.

I don't think things are as difficult as some have posted.

Fully agree.

I'd like to add that, despite my close to 20 years of experience with Photoshop, I've been pleasantly surprised by many of Affinity Photo's features. I've also added their Affinity Designer application to my alternatives, for specific Vector based and page layout tasks, but both can handle Raster images and Vector images up to a point.

It's interesting to see some of the much better implementations of relevant tools in these products that do not lean on past choices. So there is a learning curve for the new functionality or the new ways of doing the same things as before, but all in all, it's been a pleasant trip preparing for future contingency (especially when not under time pressure, so I started early, at a discount). They do need to work a bit more on speed (especially on huge file sizes), but they're a clever lot so I have confidence. They also run a public Beta program for the next versions, so users can see in advance what's cooking and follow the progress on their forums.

Cheers,
Bart
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ButchM

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2017, 12:40:13 pm »

That's fine...but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps and currently Windows only. How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles? I see a lot of photographers flailing about trying all manner of apps and filters and whatnot all which ends up being a fairly inefficient way of working to me.

Go ahead and stock your library with lots of books...but I bet you won't read them all :~)

Good thing I didn't suffer from the the fear of a daunting learning curve experience when exploring various options when I first looked into Photoshop 25 years ago or Lightroom over a decade ago or when seeking out a top drawer sharpening solution like PK Sharpener in between .... my curiosity served me well and the time invested checking out those options was well spent.

It's not all that different from learning the nuances and placements of controls when purchasing a new car. Sliders are sliders. It doesn't take long to discover if a new alternative is worthy of further investigation. It's better to make an informed decision by actually kicking the tires and taking a test drive rather than to dismiss all other options out of hand.
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hogloff

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2017, 01:44:48 pm »

Good thing I didn't suffer from the the fear of a daunting learning curve experience when exploring various options when I first looked into Photoshop 25 years ago or Lightroom over a decade ago or when seeking out a top drawer sharpening solution like PK Sharpener in between .... my curiosity served me well and the time invested checking out those options was well spent.

It's not all that different from learning the nuances and placements of controls when purchasing a new car. Sliders are sliders. It doesn't take long to discover if a new alternative is worthy of further investigation. It's better to make an informed decision by actually kicking the tires and taking a test drive rather than to dismiss all other options out of hand.


But then if your car still works properly...do you still go into all the different dealers, kick the tires and do a test drive just to stay informed with what’s out there? Personally when it’s time for a new vehicle ( image processing software ) that is when I do my homework, not when what I have functions just fine.
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Hoggy

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2017, 03:43:11 pm »

I really don't think that there are that many new features that can be aded to LR, refining masks methods is about all that I am looking for. LR today is just like a kitchen appliance, at some point there is no possible new useful feature for stove or kettle.

I keep hearing that from some, but I just don't buy it...  Think of having the power of Photoshop/Affinity, but completely non-destructive (therefore also hopefully smaller file sizes as well).  Among that, the possibility of compositing multiple unrelated images to a scene-referred DNG - just like the HDR and panos we have now.  I think there's plenty more that can be done - or so I hope.

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I am not keen on the non-Classic CC. I prefer to keep all my files at home.

You're not alone on that.  I don't want even a single catalog to be stored on their servers.  I don't use anything mobile, except for a cellular phone app - and a laptop.  (Albeit for me, that's really due to medical issues.)

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I am also quite certain that at some point, far in the future I hope, LR or our current digital methods will become obsolete; our files in the cloud or on hard drives will not be readable by the newest and bestest whatever. So, any image worth keeping should, must, be printed. Prints will remain human-readable well after the digital era is replaced by something else.

I could be one of the rarer ones..  I haven't printed a single photo yet.  I also keep meaning to scan old photos/negatives -- but it's turning out that if it isn't digital, it just doesn't seem to exist for me.  8)

Digital, or 'electronic', just isn't going to go away.  It will only advance and change forms gradually.  And if we limit this to our personal lifetime, images will only have to be moved to different mediums: cassette drives, floppy drives, Zip Disks, hard drives --- CD's, DVD's, BD-r(25-100 or more?)'s.  Readability-wise, Jpg and and even Tiff's are so ingrained that they will be readable for very VERY long time to come - and DNG has the best chance of becoming similar for our raws, save for some remaining sticks in the mud.  If not, they could be converted to something else - as there will always be a [very] long interim period...  Take printed photographs for example, and how long that 'fad' lasted  ;D --- but printed photographs and negatives fade over time - digital doesn't...  Only the media changes.

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ButchM

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2017, 05:55:01 pm »


But then if your car still works properly...do you still go into all the different dealers, kick the tires and do a test drive just to stay informed with what’s out there? Personally when it’s time for a new vehicle ( image processing software ) that is when I do my homework, not when what I have functions just fine.

Sure why not? You have never driven by an auto dealer lot, saw an interesting vehicle and want to know more about it?

How do you know if your current vehicle  (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?
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David Sutton

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2017, 07:01:48 pm »

How do you know if your current vehicle  (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?
I guess because at some point I want to stop kicking tyres and just enjoy the drive in what I have.
Discussions like this are very helpful, but one size is not going to fit all.
For example I think what I have now works, and new features or cameras will not make me a better photographer. If I need to do something new, I want to roll up my sleeves and make what I have do the job.
I have no intention of cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I'd prefer not going the subscription route. Each to his own. It doesn't make sense for me workflow wise, or financially, but good luck to Adobe.
I only upgrade LR when I have a new camera. When I went to LR6 to see my Fuji X-T2 files, I appreciated the panorama stitching. Being able to quickly see how the stitches were turning out speeded up my workflow. I use stitching a lot to change the effective focal length and f stop of a lens.
On the other hand, lights out no longer works with two screens, so I have to turn one screen off for cropping. The tech chap at Adobe was working to a script and was unable to help. Also I see that Adobe have tightened up their verification in a tiresome way, and LR appears to want to report back to Adobe regularly. I've disabled this feature. There's to much snooping nowadays under the guise of "product improvement".
CS5 is doing everything I want. I can finally make it dance under my fingertips. I wouldn't mind having the the dithering option on masks in CS6 to deal to banding, but adding noise to the mask is effective. Using Tony Kuyper's luminosity masks, Margulis's workflow panel, Nik and sundry plug-ins are more important for me and I don't want to find some random upgrade has stuffed them up à la what we see with our operating systems.
Curiously, now I've switched to Fuji, I mainly use LR as a base to load other software. I do my raw conversion in other programs, never use the sharpening or de-noising, I use Autopano for detailed stitching, and white balance the highlights, midtones and shadows separately in CS5 setting the white and blackpoints for the specific paper and profile.
The only thing I really use a lot is the print module as it's faster than Qimage and mostly the quality is just as good if the file is properly prepared.
I'm so over new cameras and software. I want to focus on where that lens is pointing and translating what I see in my mind's eye onto a lovely piece of  paper on a wall.
I think this camera will do me for a long time, and when I need to go to a new model there will likely be lots of options from Affinity, One1 and others. Though I will probably go to Capture 1.
David
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OmerV

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2017, 07:23:13 pm »

After trying other apps I still prefer Lightroom but Adobe as a company is like nails scratching on a blackboard. So I'm gritting my teeth and will continue to subscribe to the photography plan.

Hoggy

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2017, 07:49:15 pm »

After trying other apps I still prefer Lightroom but Adobe as a company is like nails scratching on a blackboard. So I'm gritting my teeth and will continue to subscribe to the photography plan.

Yep..  That's where I'm at too.  It's still the best, most comprehensive one for now, but I abhor their business practices so much that I'm keeping my eyes open now.  I'm not rich, I'm 'only' a hobbyist, I don't know how to use Photoshop - and I'm a very low volume shooter.  I largely like to just redo previous edits to get them in a new direction, or even use new tools on them sometimes, like the wonderful range masking now available for Classic.  Not having a fully-functioning 'escape clause', even after say 3/4/5 years of subscribing really has me on edge.  I would really love to stick with Lightroom Classic, and may end up doing so, but....

But I digress...  I'm trying my best to stay out of this one on this board since I seem to be in the minority on that here.   :-X
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 08:04:32 pm by Hoggy »
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hogloff

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2017, 07:50:57 pm »

Sure why not? You have never driven by an auto dealer lot, saw an interesting vehicle and want to know more about it?

How do you know if your current vehicle  (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?

Nope...never window shop at the auto dealer...that's just lust out of control.

Always doubting what you have and looking over the fence to see what the neighbour has is just a loosing battle. I don't need the "best"...I just need what works for me and allows me to produce my art the way I like. I don't get onto the rat wheel and continuously chase the latest greatest thing just to have the latest greatest thing. I'd rather spend my time in much more productive activities...some of which involve photography...life's to short to continually chase.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2017, 08:36:12 pm »

I keep hearing that from some, but I just don't buy it...  Think of having the power of Photoshop/Affinity, but completely non-destructive (therefore also hopefully smaller file sizes as well).  Among that, the possibility of compositing multiple unrelated images to a scene-referred DNG - just like the HDR and panos we have now.  I think there's plenty more that can be done - or so I hope.

Hi,

In fact, Affinity Photo has a lot (most, and then some) of that. It has "Live Filter Layers" (see attached) that can be saved and reversibly (often incorrectly called non-destructively) changed in 'real-time'. It has quite decent Pano Stitching (with the possibility to adjust the individual input image tiles and seam blending), it has Focus Stitching, and it has specific (HDRI) tonemapping functionality.

Cheers,
Bart
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2017, 08:46:52 pm »

Sure why not? You have never driven by an auto dealer lot, saw an interesting vehicle and want to know more about it?

How do you know if your current vehicle  (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?
My wife and I agree that our 1999 Camry is the best car we've ever owned.
My 2012 Prius gets better gas mileage, but it's a pain in so many other ways.
I'm sticking with LR6 and CS6 (perpetual licenses) until the crankshaft freezes.   ;)

P.S. I've just driven by the showroom of Affinity and I've decided to take it for a test spin.
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ButchM

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2017, 08:55:30 pm »

Nope...never window shop at the auto dealer...that's just lust out of control.

That comment is so absurd it's difficult to take you seriously.

It's rather silly you would twist a comment illustrating natural curiosity with uncontrolled lust. The premise is purely ludicrous.
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hogloff

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2017, 09:16:11 pm »

That comment is so absurd it's difficult to take you seriously.

It's rather silly you would twist a comment illustrating natural curiosity with uncontrolled lust. The premise is purely ludicrous.

Well Butch you are the one that indicated doing test drives to see if your vehicle was up to snuff compared to the latest standards...not I. Otherwise..."How do you know if your current vehicle  (image processing software) is functioning fine if you have never compared it to alternatives?"

I'll leave it at this since this is way off topic. You go ahead an keep looking for that greener pasture...I'll just use my old and trusty LR.
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Hoggy

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2017, 09:36:16 pm »

Adobe is herding..  Counting on complacency, and a cycle of: Noooo! -- eh, well, what are ya gonna do? -- Here, please take my money!  A billion dollar virtual monopoly fully planned for this to happen.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2017, 10:18:25 pm »

If you're going to stick with one piece of perpetual license software such as LR6 far into the future, you might want to make a list of all the used computers that can run it on the OS it's compatible with.

Software needs hardware to run on and computers don't last forever but software does especially perpetual licenses.

I'm still using CS5 ACR on a 2010 Mac Mini and OS 10.6.8 even though I have LR4 which I don't like to use due to its design and cludges that affect black point previews.

I'm still working on Raw images as we speak. It still takes too long as it did with LR4 but I enjoy it as a hobby.
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Hoggy

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2017, 10:26:01 pm »

....  Of course, lest not forget there's always going to be virtual machines, too.  It may or may not end up running slower, but at least you should be able to run it.  :)

Heck, I've even used Commodore 64 and Commodore AMIGA emulators for nostalgia.  I keep meaning to get back to playing around with them some more.

 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 10:40:49 pm by Hoggy »
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2017, 12:23:24 am »

Heck, I've even used Commodore 64 and Commodore AMIGA emulators for nostalgia.  I keep meaning to get back to playing around with them some more.
If I still had my Commodore 64, with its version of Frogger (much better than the later translations to PC), I might be willing to give up Lightroom and sell my remaining cameras!    ;D
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Hoggy

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2017, 12:47:42 am »

If I still had my Commodore 64, with its version of Frogger (much better than the later translations to PC), I might be willing to give up Lightroom and sell my remaining cameras!    ;D

I still have an actual working (last I checked) 'portable' SX-64 and a bunch of floppy's (and a 300 or 1200 baud modem, IIRC)..  Back when portable meant ~23 lbs!  :o

Don't think I got Frogger though.. I was into ones like the Ultima's, Questron, Bard's tale, and Telengard, etc.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 12:51:32 am by Hoggy »
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Tibor O

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2017, 02:39:46 am »

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john beardsworth

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2017, 03:15:39 am »

To avoid the appearance of prejudice, please supply equivalent links for other public companies.
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