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Author Topic: Black and white conversion before or after sending an image to Photoshop  (Read 5350 times)

patjoja

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Re: Black and white conversion before or after sending an image to Photoshop
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2018, 05:18:16 PM »


I'm on the little iPad, so I can't easily edit bits to keep this short.

However, your point 2: bullshit in your mind, quite possibly - no way I can get inside to know, but the simple point I make is that you should know what you're looking for before you press the tit. Of course you can work in colour and black/white, with digital that's rather expensive to avoid. But the fact remains that simply shooting your subject without a definite point of view is pretty limp.

You are free to disagree  - it makes no difference to me either way, but it may make a difference to your work if you adopt that sequence of thinking before clicking. At the very least, it concentrates the mind and saves a lot of disappointment later on in the process.

Point 3 isn't to do with my points, which are about one's thinking about the image before making the exposure. Frankly, I find it strange that anyone might just shoot without having his picture firmly in his head, pretty much processed to his desires. I hardly think of my snaps as mirrors to reality at all: they are practically always intended to be anything but realistic. If I wanted real, I'd just look, smile and walk on by. Photography takes up too much time just to recreate what's already created.

IMO, of course.

Rob

Sorry, "BS" was a poor choice of words.  Your methodology and mine are different obviously, and your motivations and mine are different as well.  I do not possess a brain that is capable of processing an image before it's taken, whether that's because of a lack of concentration or an insufficient number of brain cells.  However, I do believe the realm of photography is large enough to encompass many different methodologies and can be enjoyed in whatever way that makes one happy. 

I agree that it's important to know what you're taking a picture of before it's taken, but I also think that there is plenty of room to sometimes be surprised to find things that may have escaped one's notice as part of the post processing workflow.  For me that's part of the fun. If I could hazard a guess from your comments, you might think that's unacceptable as a photographer, but that's okay.  I enjoy doing what I'm doing and at my age I don't care if it's acceptable or not. :-)

Regards,

Patrick

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Rob C

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Re: Black and white conversion before or after sending an image to Photoshop
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2018, 04:27:27 AM »

Sorry, "BS" was a poor choice of words.  Your methodology and mine are different obviously, and your motivations and mine are different as well.  I do not possess a brain that is capable of processing an image before it's taken, whether that's because of a lack of concentration or an insufficient number of brain cells.  However, I do believe the realm of photography is large enough to encompass many different methodologies and can be enjoyed in whatever way that makes one happy. 

I agree that it's important to know what you're taking a picture of before it's taken, but I also think that there is plenty of room to sometimes be surprised to find things that may have escaped one's notice as part of the post processing workflow. For me that's part of the fun. If I could hazard a guess from your comments, you might think that's unacceptable as a photographer, but that's okay.  I enjoy doing what I'm doing and at my age I don't care if it's acceptable or not. :-)

Regards,

Patrick

Fun: I have been considering this aspect for quite a long time - several years, in fact. I still find it difficult to conclude one way or the other. Sometimes I think I am having fun with photography and then at others, I realise it has nothing to do with fun, which is redolent of a sense of amusement, lightness of spirit and at least some sense of slight excitement.

The more my mind returns to that subject, the less certain I am. In fact, the only time I can honestly claim to have made a shot in a real sense of fun was the other day - yesterday, I think - when I intentionally set out to ape the William Klein "thing" about marking contact sheets with coloured pens. My reality, obviously a more gloomy one than his, had such selections marked in black or blue pen... But the point remained - at least it did yesterday - that trying to rip off a mannerism would indeed be a "fun" thing to attempt because it doesn't depend on the images but in the treatment of a presentation. For the rest of the time, photography doesn't approach that territory (for me) because it feels far more a driven thing. Truth to tell, I feel increasongly guilty for not being able to raise the same enthusiasm for it as I could a year or so ago. Perhaps that's not accurate: the enthusiasm is there but the desire gets ever more funnelled into directions that are currently impossibe to take, and thus shooting anything else feels exactly what it is: a substitute. The junk I eat every day, compared with my late wife's culinary skills, leaps instantly to mind as a prime example. Would you if you didn't have to?

Your other point, about enjoyment, is paramount: that's what it should be about, I think, whether pro or amateur.

Rob

Rob C

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Re: Black and white conversion before or after sending an image to Photoshop
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2018, 08:31:18 AM »

With reference to all the above, something I just stumbled upon:

"The difference between the casual impression and the intensified image is about as great as that separating the average business letter from a poem,” said Harry Callahan in 1964. “If you choose your subject selectively — intuitively — the camera can write poetry.”"

Can't lay claim to much visual peotry, but the technique is second-nature after all these years of tying to produce something to order as well as for my own pleasure in fulfilling the former function.

Jasper

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Re: Black and white conversion before or after sending an image to Photoshop
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2018, 07:22:18 AM »

You should know what you're looking for before you press the tit. Of course you can work in colour and black/white, with digital that's rather expensive to avoid. But the fact remains that simply shooting your subject without a definite point of view is pretty limp... Frankly, I find it strange that anyone might just shoot without having his picture firmly in his head, pretty much processed to his desires.

I assume you are referring to previsualization here and I personally think that this is less important now in the digital age.  As far as composition is concerned, of course you need a vision of what you are trying to achieve.  However, digital gives us a much greater flexibility to change what we originally visualized with regards to the tonality and color of the print.  So with film, one typically had to decide at the outset whether to go BW or color (and choose the appropriate film, locking oneself into that vision), whereas with digital one doesn't (unless shooting a Leica Monochrom!).  Same with tonality - in the film days one would adjust the exposure depending on how one visualizes the final print and similarly when one (blindly) processes the film (zone system) whereas in digital one typically exposes to the right regardless of how one visualizes the final print.  So although I usually think about whether I want a photo I'm taking to be ultimately processed in BW or color, digital gives flexibility and I don't always stick with that vision during processing.

With regards to the OP, as others have mentioned, I stick in color as long as possible before converting to BW.  I will set WB, exposure, tone, sharpening, etc in LR.   I'll then export to PS for more intricate work, including retouching.  BW conversion is typically my final stage and like others, I usually use Silver Efex (sometimes processing different parts of the image using different Silver Efex recipes and layering in PS).
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 07:34:15 AM by Jasper »
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BAB

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Re: Black and white conversion before or after sending an image to Photoshop
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2018, 10:01:11 AM »

On a different note as the black and white conversions are simply a process to obtaining a file offering the fullest and richest tones to print and wow the viewer I have another question. Recently I watched a YouTube video b y a photographer using larger format film for capture, then scans and finally off to a print house for his fine art prints. He claims that inkjet prints are sub standard compared to light jet prints from a print house. He furthers goes on to say that we are wasting time and money trying to achieve the best possible print by inkjet technology. As that method of printing at home on my Epson printers is all I’ve ever done in the past ten years I would be interested in anyone thoughts regarding a service for printing. If the answer is use a print service how do they maximize your file and offer you PP giving you a better print and how much money do you have to throw into one print to get better results?


Thanks
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I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times - "Bruce Lee"

Paul Roark

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Re: Black and white conversion before or after sending an image to Photoshop
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2018, 11:42:19 AM »

I have a darkroom and did darkroom B&W printing for years.  While reasonable people may differ, in my opinion my inkjet prints are better than the darkroom prints.  At one point, before I felt the inkjet materials were as good as the old silver print papers, I used digital internegatives and an 8x10 enlarger for them.  However, at this point, particularly when using a high carbon content B&W inkset, I think not only are the inkjet images better looking, but they'll probably be more archival -- 100% carbon on Arches watercolor paper, perhaps, being the ultimate.

I can understand some people liking the old processes.   Seeing the image come up in the developer tray is an aspect of photo printing that is clearly more interesting than watching an inkjet printer, but if we're focusing on the final product, I'm afraid technology has moved on.  From my perspective, it's mostly for the better.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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