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Author Topic: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour  (Read 9973 times)

Ferp

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2017, 08:22:28 pm »

QTR offers two approaches.  One can use the QTR driver to print B/W and of course this bypasses the Epson driver.  The second approach is the one I alluded to and that is to use the Epson ABW print driver and prepare a profile that linearizes the print output using the QTR script tools.  As I noted this will only work with a WinOS system as MacOS disabled this feature five years ago.

Not wishing to sound like a broken record either, but you can still print to ABW and use a profile on a Mac.  You can't do it the way that you used to some years ago, for the reasons Alan stated.  But you can specify a profile if you print to ABW using Roy Harrington's Print Tool.  You just need to enable the "Epson ABW Mode" checkbox in the "Print Color Management" Section of its settings.

But doing that wouldn't have the effect that Aaron wants.  It wouldn't give him the roughly straight line plot of luminosity values that he is seeking.  Were he to perform his testing using this workflow he would end up with a line that has a sharp curve in the deep shadows.  Printing with an ICC profile created using the QTR script tools is sometimes referred to as a linearizing workflow, but it's an entirely different concept of linearity.  It won't result in a linear plot of equally-spaced luminosity values. 
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2017, 08:07:20 am »

My understanding of the term "Digital Negative", especially as Jeff Schewe uses the phrase in his book of the same name - it is simply a raw file - the data one starts with to craft a photograph. The only place it gets created is in a digital camera.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Ferp

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2017, 09:09:19 am »

That term has another, more specific, meaning in a printing context:  Wikipedia article on Digital_negative_(transparency).  I'm sure there are better sources, but this was at the top of the search results.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 09:27:49 am by Ferp »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2017, 09:12:41 am »

That term has another, more specific, meaning in a printing context:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_negative_(transparency).  I'm sure there are better sources, but this was at the top of the search results.

That article is about the DNG file format. I doubt this is what Aaron has in mind. But Aaron should explain.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Ferp

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2017, 09:33:50 am »

Some thing went wrong with that link.  The bracket at the end was missing.  I'd edited the post to correct it. 

People who want to print with alternative (traditional) processes, like platinum and palladium, invert the image in Photoshop and then print the inverted (i.e.negative) image on transparency, which becomes like a traditional film negative, except created digitally.  Prints are generally contact prints rather than enlarged.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2017, 09:45:30 am »

Ah - OK, understood. That makes sense now.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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aaronchan

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2017, 11:40:17 am »

Ah - OK, understood. That makes sense now.

Digital Negative, or maybe I should've say Digital Inter Negative.
We do PtPd Printing here which requires good DN for this process.

Thanks
Aaron

Mark D Segal

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2017, 01:31:40 pm »

Digital Negative, or maybe I should've say Digital Inter Negative.
We do PtPd Printing here which requires good DN for this process.

Thanks
Aaron

Sorry Aaron, what is "PtPd"? Is it "Precision Time Protocol Daemon"?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2017, 02:04:26 pm »

Sorry Aaron, what is "PtPd"? Is it "Precision Time Protocol Daemon"?
Platinum and Palladium printing
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2017, 02:35:58 pm »

Thanks Alan - in this context I think you are most likely correct. I wish people would stop writing in undefined acronyms.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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aaronchan

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2017, 12:08:43 am »

Thanks Alan - in this context I think you are most likely correct. I wish people would stop writing in undefined acronyms.

Pt & Pd is the proper symbol for Platinum and Palladium...
You can find this on the periodic table...

belnea

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2017, 03:57:54 am »

and with colorbase epson ? it's for the linearisation of the epson, no ?
https://luminous-landscape.com/epson-colorbase/
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2017, 08:12:55 am »

and with colorbase epson ? it's for the linearisation of the epson, no ?
https://luminous-landscape.com/epson-colorbase/
I believe it is designed to bring the printer back to the factory performance settings.  Colorbase modifies the print driver based on readings from a patch set that is printed out.  The OP is focusing on B/W printing and not color.  I don't think Colorbase focuses on B/W the way the OP wants.
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belnea

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2017, 08:18:36 am »

you're right . it's for have the same quantity (calibration) of ink as the printer use for the make of profil ICC of epson.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2017, 08:54:35 am »

Pt & Pd is the proper symbol for Platinum and Palladium...
You can find this on the periodic table...

It wouldn't occur to me to look up a periodic table. If you want to be listened to and understood don't impose barriers to comprehension by writing in acronyms and abbreviations. I had the tolerance to ask for clarification. Many others would just press "Delete" and move on.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2017, 10:57:50 am »

It wouldn't occur to me to look up a periodic table.
My excuse is I have a PhD in chemistry! 8)
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Doug Gray

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2017, 11:09:41 am »

interesting how our different backgrounds impacts understanding each other. I was confused by what aaron meant by "digital negative" and was thinking he meant some sort of printing process that would somehow turn an image into a "digital negative."  Silly in retrospect and, as many pointed out, it just refers to a raw image file. A "Duh" moment for me. OTOH, Pt and Pd was clear to mean Platinum and Palladium.

And then there are the complexities of L*, various RGB gammas, and hybrid tone curves like sRGB. I find that these tone curve differences and implications are not easily communicated by my attempted clarifications.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2017, 02:37:02 pm »

My excuse is I have a PhD in chemistry! 8)

And mine is that I don't.  :-)
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2017, 03:58:56 pm »

And mine is that I don't.  :-)
But your degree in economics is much more valuable!!!
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ideal V.S. Reality of linear behaviour
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2017, 05:15:38 pm »

Ya think? :-) ROTFL.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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