P800 and Pizza Wheels

[ChristopherMay]

Good evening, all. I recently picked up an Epson P800 with the goal of taking control of my own printing. While I’ve been mostly happy, I’ve noticed that in prints that have large patches of dark tones, I’m getting the dreaded “pizza wheels.” This occurs on any of the papers I have handy - Epson Premium Luster, Canson Baryta Photographique, Canson Platine and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk (my favorite but also the most susceptible to the pizza wheel problem).

I’ve set my thickness to 4,5 and 6 and set the platen to wide. This may have decreases the problem ever do slightly but it’s still noticeable and frustrating. I’ve also played with the dry time settings but this has no effect whatsoever.

I noticed some older threads on the problem and at that time the only solution was getting a replacement printer from Epson. Is that still the case or has some solution presented itself that I haven’t found in my internet searches?

Also, if the printer does need to be returned, will it be a problem if I no longer have the styrofoam packing that came with it? (I live in a small apartment and there simply is no place to store that much packing material). I do still have the original box but no packing.

Thank you in advance for any help!

Chris May
Pueblo, CO

[Mark D Segal]

If your printer is still under warranty this is a problem and return procedure best discussed with Epson ProGraphics Tech Support. But based on my experience returning printers to Epson, I can relate as follows. If they need to replace the printer, whether you get a refurb or a new one depends on how long you have owned your current P800 within the warranty period. Experience with refurbs varies from excellent to not so hot, so you'd need to see if it comes to that. The lack of styrofoam for the packaging should not be a problem provided you can put together alternative ways of keeping it secured for shipping. As for "pizza wheels", those traces on the paper should not be happening. Maybe they can advise you on how they are avoided without returning the printer, but as I never had this problem I have no first-hand experience of technical advice from them on this particular problem.

[ChristopherMay]

Thank you for the input, Mark. I received the printer from B&H a little over a week ago. I've been extremely happy with most of the prints it has produced until I tried to print a B&W shot with a moody, dark sky. That's when I noticed the problem and tried the various settings and papers to see if it was something that I could work around. I'll reach out to Epson after the holiday.


Thanks again for your input and a very happy holiday season to you!

[Mark D Segal]

You are welcome and likewise to you - have a good Thanksgiving Holiday. Do keep us informed about the response from Epson tech support.

[ChristopherMay]

Do keep us informed about the response from Epson tech support.

Talked to Epson today and they are going to replace my printer. They sent a shipping label and informed me that I could keep the ink carts that came with the printer (which is appreciated as they're at almost the same level as when I installed them). The turnaround time is supposed to be about 14 days. Will update this thread once I receive the replacement unit and get it installed.

Thanks again for the help, Mark!

[Mark D Segal]

You are welcome. Good outcome. Hope it's solved with the next printer.

[ChristopherMay]

Replacement printer arrived today. Just spent a bunch of time getting everything set up only to find that this printer is doing exactly the same thing that the previous one did. I've attached a web resolution version of the main file that is causing me problems and in a reply, I'll post a picture of the problem as it's showing up.

[ChristopherMay]

Here is a really quick and dirty shot taken with my D800 and 55mm Micro lens showing the patterns that are showing up in the dark clouds at the top of the print. I apologize about the poor quality of the shot. I'm tired and a little depressed and couldn't summon the energy to get the tripod out and do a proper shoot of the print.

I guess one question I need to ask is this: Am I being unreasonable about this? Admittedly, this defect only shows up under strong, direct track lighting. The problem is that this is exactly the type of lighting that this and other, similar prints will be subjected to next year for an exhibition I'm doing on my grain elevator work. It's also slightly maddening to me that a printer of this price and caliber would suffer this kind of problem on multiple copies.

At the moment, I'm unsure if I should follow up with Epson again on this or if I should just throw in the towel on the P800 and send it back and pick up a Canon Pro 1000. I'm not a fan of the size limitations of the Canon but I'll take that over fouled prints every day.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[Panagiotis]

Here is a really quick and dirty shot taken with my D800 and 55mm Micro lens showing the patterns that are showing up in the dark clouds at the top of the print. I apologize about the poor quality of the shot. I'm tired and a little depressed and couldn't summon the energy to get the tripod out and do a proper shoot of the print.

I guess one question I need to ask is this: Am I being unreasonable about this? Admittedly, this defect only shows up under strong, direct track lighting. The problem is that this is exactly the type of lighting that this and other, similar prints will be subjected to next year for an exhibition I'm doing on my grain elevator work. It's also slightly maddening to me that a printer of this price and caliber would suffer this kind of problem on multiple copies.

At the moment, I'm unsure if I should follow up with Epson again on this or if I should just throw in the towel on the P800 and send it back and pick up a Canon Pro 1000. I'm not a fan of the size limitations of the Canon but I'll take that over fouled prints every day.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Hi! I wonder if this video is of any help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZqdM-1skEU

[vinz]

Hi !

Exact same problem on my P800 with baryta papers.

The method explained in the youtube video didn't work.

Poster board feed (not Fine Art feed) don't use the pizza wheels and avoid those tiny marks, but you have a 20mm minimum bottom margin. (instead of 3mm).

20 mm margin is too much for my small prints, so I can't use this, and with the only try I did with poster board feed, it seems that the print was less sharp ?

[Conner999]

Had same issue with our 3800. We tried every factory recc and every DIY suggestions and NOTHING fixed it.

Even removed the PWs and still had issues as some marks were from PWs and some from other sharp bits of plastic on top of paper path. All on PK papers, especially in areas with heavy sink application. even some thicker EPSON MK papers if doing images with black backdrops, etc.

Part of it is paper swelling under ink load (areas with heavy ink swell more than others and can distort paper as feeding thru), manufacturers not allowing for same, too many sharp bits too close to delicate paper surfaces, no vacuum hold-down and manufacturing variations. The latter meaning that some people with same model of printer will have no issues while some will

Eventually gave up on PK papers all together and any thicker MK papers if using areas with heavy black load.

Also vowed to never get another printer without a good vacuum hold-down system.

Not much help to you, but just an FYI that many understand such a "why cant they ****ing prevent this?!" problem can take all the joy out of printing and make you dread the process instead.

[Mark D Segal]

I guess one question I need to ask is this: Am I being unreasonable about this? ............... pick up a Canon Pro 1000. I'm not a fan of the size limitations of the Canon but I'll take that over fouled prints every day.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Your second posted image shows the problem clearly, and no you are not being unreasonable. It simply shouldn't happen if you are following the manufacturer's instructions in respect of paper thickness and platen gap settings, and feeding paper that conforms with the printer's specifications. I assume by now you know all about that and have been doing so, so that isn't the problem. In the circumstances, as this replacement printer hasn't solved the problem I recommend you send it back to Epson and ask for another one. I once had to return four printers to Epson before I got one that worked correctly - that was an inexpensive all-in-one office machine, but I mention this only to advise that in my experience, Epson will cooperate with the customer until the problem is resolved, as long as they continue to accept that it's their problem. I would suggest going this route first, if only because you want to preserve the flexibility the P800 offers in respect of media sizes. If at the end of the day nothing improves and you want to switch brands, I can confirm from my own testing of the Pro-1000 that its paper feeding is trouble-free, though comparatively limited in media size - and print quality is superb.

[nirpat89]

Not much help to you, but just an FYI that many understand such a "why cant they ****ing prevent this?!" problem can take all the joy out of printing and make you dread the process instead.

Same sentiments here.  My first foray in digital inkjet printing was with Epson 1280.  Horrible pizza wheels.  Never got anything decent out of it.  Mostly used it for printing office stuff on plain paper.  Fast forward more than a decade.  I recently bought an Epson P400 reluctantly after my trusty HP B9180 died for good.  No gross pizza wheels on most surfaces with P400 at first glance.  But when I printed on a transparency to make a digital negative, they showed up subtly on my contact prints.  So they are there, just not as evident as the 1280.  May be a little progress.  As long as they have those wheels to hold down the front end of the print, there will be propensity for these artifacts.  That's my feeling.  I wish they at least would create a mechanism by which you can either disengage them or reduce the pressure so as to let the user decide based on the paper.  But then may be that would mean they have to acknowledge that there is a fundamental design problem.

About the OP's problem at hand, are these printed at the slowest speed possible. For example uni-directional printing will be the slowest which gives more time for the ink to dry as it moves under the wheels.  Also, printing at 2880 dpi would also slow down the paper advance.  Additionally, I found that the wheels were more pronounced when printing small test images.  When I printed larger 8x10's, they were scarce.  I tried messing with the front feed using a carrier board with the transparency taped over, but found that to be too cumbersome. 

:Niranjan.

[ChristopherMay]

Thank you for all of the thoughts and suggestions. I spent more time with it tonight double checking my paper thickness settings, platen settings, etc. This printer is proving to be worse than the last copy. The pizza wheels are now showing up on almost all of my prints whereas they were limited to just the very dark areas on the printer that I returned.

I'm now at a point that I'm not 100% sure what to do. I really need to start getting these prints done for this show. I can afford the time to do only one or two more Epson returns in search of a good unit. I still prefer the print size options for the Epson but the Canon is sounding a lot more promising with it's lack of transport issues. I guess I'll ponder it tonight and make a decision tomorrow.

Again, many thanks for all of the help with this. It's very sincerely appreciated!

[BradSmith]

I had an Epson 3800 for 8 years.  Bullet proof till it died.  Bought a P800.  Had to return the first P800 under warranty because it was chewing up paper.  Got a replacement from Epson.  Neither P800 would feed "fine art" paper per Epson's instructions. Many people have this problem.   Why haven't they either corrected the problem or revised their instructions??  (Mark Segal's alternate loading method works for me).  Second P800 then started leaving blotches of black ink, just out of warranty.  $300 repair.    Bottom line, I'll migrate to Canon for my next printer.
Brad Smith