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Author Topic: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development  (Read 928004 times)

Paul2660

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #300 on: August 22, 2017, 08:45:52 pm »

Overstepped a bit in regards to first digital reflex to offer focus stacking. P1 has had over a year now with the XF. And the process seems very similar using stepping motor microsdjustments.

Paul Caldwell
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #301 on: August 22, 2017, 09:41:19 pm »

I think were seeing a bit of a shift in the MF market though Shadow always from the traditional advertising/fashion bent and more towards something that might be used by landscape shooters. Cameras like the Pentax 645z and Fuji GFX are pushing more into UWA range with there lens selection, Fuji is going to have an 18mm equivalent soon for example.

I think fighting a pure resolution war against the larger format is a questionable tactic personally as I think you are going to be hitting serious limitations of a lot of 35mm lenses when you get above 50 MP. Right now these MF bodies aren't showing there true potential at 50 MP though and if a 100 MP 44x33mm sensor did happen as rumoured would clearly win that war.

44mm isn't all that much bigger than 36mm. You'd gain more if you usually shot a squarer format, but not if you typically live at 3:2 or wider.

Add to that the completely new lens lineup required (no sharing lenses between your action and your non-action body) and the likely poor AF of such cameras and it's unlikely to be anything more than a niche option.

The centre of most good lenses - zooms and primes - can already handle up to 150-200MP, or potentially more. The edges are obviously a lot weaker, but good primes (Otus, some of the Sigma Arts, various other primes from Canon, Nikon and Sony) can handle a much higher resolution sensor than is currently available.

Then there's the usefulness of having more pixels. 54MP is a significant step up from 36MP, provided all the pixels are good (and not just the same smear spread over more pixels) - it gets you to 150ppi at a 60x40" print size, or 100ppi for a 90"-wide print. 70MP, or even 100-120MP, would be a significant step up from 54MP, since it gives you more usable detail at realistic, if large, print sizes (121.5MP would give you 150ppi at 60x90", while 96MP would give you 200ppi at 40x60"). But, beyond that, 150-200MP of real detail probably just wouldn't be that useful. Sensors of that resolution would be useful, even if they outresolved the lenses, as that would reduce aliasing artifacts without the need for AA filters, but that would not require a lens that resolves more than 120MP or so.

This is achievable corner-to-corner with lenses designed for 35mm format. They just need to be no-holds-barred designs, like Otus lenses, rather than run-of-the-mill lenses designed with production cost in mind. Or they could get a huge helping hand with curved sensor technology. And these are probably still going to be cheaper to make (and lighter to carry) than lenses with larger elements needed for MF sensors.

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The actual number of people who want resolution that high is though I would say not massive, perhaps significantly larger than the old MF advertising market in the past but not big on the scale of Nikon's normal sales targets. Theres IMHO significantly more to be gained from a camera that is seen to do everything well which I think the D850 is in with a good shot of being if all the rumours are true.

That was also the D750 and the 5D4. The D850 merely takes it one step further. It's a big step, though, since there now appears to be no compromise made in AF capability for those who need more resolution, but may not need the same frame rate. Previous generations always required you to choose between AF and resolution (when there's no technical connection between the two), not just frame rate and resolution (which are connected by limited bandwidth and processing speed). Now you can choose between super-fast and low-resolution, fast and mid-high-resolution and possibly (if Nikon completes the triad with a higher-resolution offering) slow and super-high resolution, all with the same AF system.

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I think this camera could actually help them pickup a significant part of the higher end market personally as they seem like they might have got the drop on Canon who have stuck to the old mind-set with the 5D line of somewhat crippling to drive future upgrades and flagship sales which as they look like they've thrown absolutely everything they could at the D850.

Definitely. The 5D5 will need similar specs to compete, even if it were released in the next six months. Given that it is likely 2 years away, it will need to be even better. But Canon, being their usual arrogant selves (and only looking at the Japanese market) probably won't bite.

The 5Ds2, on the other hand, is in no danger, so long as they push the resolution/DR/IQ side of things to put it in a completely separate product category (dedicated to resolution rather than general-purpose).

Sony is probably more likely than Canon to release a competing product. Currently, they have a 24MP/20fps camera with a top-tier AF system. Continuing on from the A7r2, and incorporating improvements in on-sensor AF made since then, they will probably release a 60-80MP/5fps camera, likely with the same top-tier system. These bracket the D850 at both ends, but leaves a huge void in the middle for those who need more than 24MP, but also more than 5fps. It wouldn't surprise me if they ended the A7s line, kept the A9 as the speed/high-ISO version, kept the 'r' line as the resolution version and introduced something in the middle (around 48MP/10fps). So one model dedicated to speed/ISO, another to resolution/low ISO IQ, and a do-everything body in the middle, all with the same AF system. Their lens lineup is nowhere near competitive yet (particularly for the sports/wildlife users most likely to use a 48MP/10fps body), but the basics are there, and it can only improve.
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kers

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #302 on: August 23, 2017, 06:03:56 am »

here the 'leaked' press release info of the d850

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/08/22/nikon-d850-press-release-leaked.aspx/

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John Cothron

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #303 on: August 23, 2017, 09:47:28 am »

Sounds like it is indeed being marketed as a do it all body, and the stats look pretty good to me.
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henrikfoto

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #304 on: August 23, 2017, 10:36:11 am »

Looks very interesting! Anyone has idea of price yet?
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kers

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #305 on: August 23, 2017, 10:40:20 am »

Nikon Rumours thinks it will be 3800€ in Germany
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henrikfoto

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #306 on: August 23, 2017, 10:45:12 am »

Ok, that sounds ok :)
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #307 on: August 23, 2017, 12:08:15 pm »

AUD5399.95 in Australia.

That works out to USD4262 at today's exchange rate. Australia has a 10% sales tax, which is included in the price.
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henrikfoto

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #308 on: August 23, 2017, 04:56:28 pm »

When will they start shipping?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #309 on: August 23, 2017, 05:04:47 pm »

When will they start shipping?

Rumors say Sept 10.

Cheers,
Bernard

henrikfoto

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #310 on: August 23, 2017, 05:15:08 pm »

Wow, thats fast! Nice!
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Paul2660

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #311 on: August 23, 2017, 06:12:29 pm »

Off the B&H site currently. Am assuming it will go back after midnight with preorder available.

Paul Caldwell
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BJL

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Nikon D850: increased video emphasis?
« Reply #312 on: August 23, 2017, 06:58:49 pm »

A lot of information in this leak matches earlier rumors, so what caught my eye is what looks like an increased emphasis on video: some 8K abilities, and one of the publicity shots show the D850 off with a microphone attached.

The focus-stacking support is interesting too—is that news, or was it already rumored?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #313 on: August 23, 2017, 07:01:13 pm »

The stacking was already rumored.

Cheers,
Bernard

HSakols

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #314 on: August 23, 2017, 07:05:39 pm »

From the specs (unofficial) the only real advantage seems like faster auto focus and 8k video.  I'd be surprised if there is any advantage (eg better dynamic range) over the Nikon 810.  Of course I will be interested in reading the reviews. 
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #315 on: August 23, 2017, 07:56:03 pm »

The AF of the D5 alone would be worth the price for me... and these lenses...


D5 + 70-200mm f2.8 E FL


D5 + 400mm f2.8 E FL

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 08:24:00 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #316 on: August 23, 2017, 10:16:28 pm »

From the specs (unofficial) the only real advantage seems like faster auto focus and 8k video.  I'd be surprised if there is any advantage (eg better dynamic range) over the Nikon 810.  Of course I will be interested in reading the reviews.

For a landscape photographer, it probably doesn't offer much other than a few more MP - probably not USD4000 worth. The automatic stacking could be useful for telephoto landscapes/cityscapes, but there's nothing stopping you from doing it manually at the moment.

If you shoot anything else at all, the AF and FPS, combined with resolution/pixel density, likely make it much more useful and versatile than the D810, D5 and D500 (unless you absolutely need 12/14fps).

And, again, it looks like it'll be the world's best wildlife camera.

It's a lot like the 5D2 to 5D3 upgrade, really - more like a product repositioning than a real successor.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #317 on: August 23, 2017, 11:10:17 pm »

It's a lot like the 5D2 to 5D3 upgrade, really - more like a product repositioning than a real successor.

How was the 5D3 a product re positioning relative to the 5D2?

How is the D850 not a successor to the D810? I mean other than your theory that it won't have as much SR at base ISO of course.

Cheers,
Bernard

shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #318 on: August 23, 2017, 11:40:25 pm »

How was the 5D3 a product re positioning relative to the 5D2?

How is the D850 not a successor to the D810? I mean other than your theory that it won't have as much SR at base ISO of course.

Cheers,
Bernard

5D2 was all sensor with poor frame rate, poor AF, single card, etc. It was the high-resolution body of its time - Nikon was stuck at 12MP. Good for non-action photography and not much else. The 5D3 added much better AF and frame rate and the sensor was no longer top-of-the-line. It was a general photographer's camera, not a studio/landscape body. The D800e had taken the 5D2's mantle, with 36MP but slow frame rate and mediocre AF. Canon didn't release a true successor - prioritising high resolution, without regard for frame rate or other action-related factors - until the 5Ds.

I never said the D850 wouldn't have as much DR at base ISO. I said there may not be an improvement at base ISO. Big difference. And that, if they had to choose between high DR at base ISO and keeping up with other action bodies at ISO 1600-6400, it would make more sense to prioritise the latter.

It's not a successor because it's obviously aimed at a different subset of photographers. The D810 was not an action camera. It prioritised resolution and base-ISO DR, at the expense of almost everything else. Even the D750 outperforms it when shooting action or at mid-high ISO. The D850, on the other hand, does everything the 5D4, D750 and D500 do, and almost everything the D5 does, but better.

There may be a successor to the D810 in the works, but the D850 is not it. It's much more like a beefed-up D750, or a D5 that traded some speed for double the resolution, than a replacement studio/landscape body designed for the highest possible resolution. Look at the specs, not the name.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #319 on: August 24, 2017, 12:09:27 am »

First official samples available.

http://www.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/d850/sample.html

ISO64 looks amazingly good, totally noise free and super sharp.

Due to ship on 8th Sept in Japan, price in the US is 3,300 US$, it sells for 359,000 Yen in Japan which is 30,000 Yen cheaper than the street price of the 5DIV.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 01:18:49 am by BernardLanguillier »
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