Annie Leibovitz lighting question

[Mglover92]

I was readings Annie's book 'At Work' and I had a question about her lighting. Regarding light meters she said quote

"A light meter is only a guide. It shouldnt be used literally. When I decided to tone down the strobe, we made it even with the natural light rather than being a stop over. Then we went a stop or two under the natural light. I liked the way things looked when they were barely lit. The darker pictures seemed refined, mysterious."

Now in terms of lighting, I learned that you basically stop your camera down then add flash to fill in the shadows on the face or body. Can somebody tell me what she means by saying we made it 'even' with the natural light? Does she mean she would get a basic exposure with no flash, then add flash in to help shape the face? Or meter the light hitting her face and simply adjust her flash to the same power as the aperture she is shooting at? She then goes on to say she went a stop or two under the natural light. Does this simply mean she stopped her camera down a stop or two and simply filled the flash in? (i assume this would be a more dramatic photograph) Or is she pretty much referring to a lower power setting on the flash that is less than what aperture she is shooting at. This would of course make the flash less noticeable.  Sorry if this is confusing! I'm sure somebody here can help explain to me what she meant. Thanks!

[BobShaw]

Well Annie probably should tell you what she meant.

Being a "stop over" does not necessarily mean that the aperture is one stop over, it just means that there is twice as much exposure. This could be through any combination of aperture, shutter and ISO
Ambient light is affected by shutter speed, aperture and ISO.
Flash is only affected by aperture and ISO because it is considered instantaneous.
So (assuming you are not going to change the ISO) you set the shutter and aperture for the natural light and adjust the flash power as required for that aperture.
If you need more flash power than the flash unit has then you can increase the shutter and open the aperture to make the flash effectively more powerful (but only up the flash sync speed)
Flash units units used to be marked in f stops so that is probably what she is meaning by a stop under. If the light meter said f4 you made it f2.8 for stop under (half power).

[Mglover92]

Well Annie probably should tell you what she meant.

Being a "stop over" does not necessarily mean that the aperture is one stop over, it just means that there is twice as much exposure. This could be through any combination of aperture, shutter and ISO
Ambient light is affected by shutter speed, aperture and ISO.
Flash is only affected by aperture and ISO because it is considered instantaneous.
So (assuming you are not going to change the ISO) you set the shutter and aperture for the natural light and adjust the flash power as required for that aperture.
If you need more flash power than the flash unit has then you can increase the shutter and open the aperture to make the flash effectively more powerful (but only up the flash sync speed)
Flash units units used to be marked in f stops so that is probably what she is meaning by a stop under. If the light meter said f4 you made it f2.8 for stop under (half power).

Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it. Couple quick questions. When you said to "adjust flash power as required to that aperture" do you mean meter it to that exact aperture or adjust it accordingly to whatever suits your image whether its less or more?

[Ken Bennett]

Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it. Couple quick questions. When you said to "adjust flash power as required to that aperture" do you mean meter it to that exact aperture or adjust it accordingly to whatever suits your image whether its less or more?

To quote a well known photographer, "A light meter is only a guide."

Yeah, you have it right with the second part of your question. If I set my aperture to f/5.6 and adjust my flash until the flash meter reads "f/5.6" then I will probably get a "correct" exposure but it's unlikely to render the scene the way I want to see it in the final image.

[DrakeJ]

Basically what it means is that Annie Liebovitz drags the shutter to let ambient light in, and then fills in shadows with the flash by basically looking at the result. The light meter is used to get to a starting position, and then the experimenting kicks in.

[Mglover92]

Thank you guys! I really appreciate it! Very helpful folks on this forum. Im digging it 

[tim wolcott]

Let me clarify something the assistants do the work.  They set it up and she takes the credit.  Annie just clicks the shutter. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes.   

[donbga]

Let me clarify something the assistants do the work.  They set it up and she takes the credit.  Annie just clicks the shutter. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes.

That's one way to put it Tim. She approves of the setup. Same went for Avedon and his assistants.

[FelixWu]

It means she uses only minimal flash on set.

[UlfKrentz]

Let me clarify something the assistants do the work.  They set it up and she takes the credit.  Annie just clicks the shutter. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes.

Lol, I know this is a technical forum but still: Photography is 95% camera work and communication, and 5% tech stuff. It´s the way a lot of photographers work, letting the assistants do the tech stuff to keep a free mind and concentrate on the real thing. Pretty sure Annie would present better images just using her phone than her assistants would using the camera after "doing all the work". YMMV.

[DrakeJ]

Let's be honest here, I've read the same thing about Annie Leibovitz. "Assistants do everything, all she does is click the shutter". You can recognize her photographs across time, and she's gone through many assistants who are now high level photographers on their own. She knows how she wants her lighting to be, and somehow all her assistants can light it the way she wants.

Coincidence? I think not. Clearly she must be skilled at communicating how she wants everything to be and her assistants are not doing a trial and error run on their own on an important set. When they're trained, they work as a team to get things done.

[BobShaw]

Let me clarify something the assistants do the work.  They set it up and she takes the credit.  Annie just clicks the shutter. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes.

Not sure what you are clarifying. Assistants do what photographers ask. Some carry the lights, some set them up. Steven Spielberg may never have operated a camera. Photographers can be directors and it is still their work. The work stands or falls on what is produced at the end.

[douglevy]

It's not the assistants. Shoots of this level are a team production, stylists, hair, makeup. The assistants don't come up with the ideas, the just know how to light how she likes because she's communicated it to them.

[Ellis Vener]

It means she uses only minimal flash on set.

Oh obviously, and in all of the on set production photos that are out there of her working , the lights and stands are just brought in as props to make the set busier than it actually is.

[Rob C]

Folks shouldn't forget that she worked as a young photographer... she didn't just arrive on the Rolling Stone scene as a middle-aged woman complete with a team. Avedon didn't work at 'Bazaar in the early days with a massive crew. The whole idea of a big production came into being many years later, just as with the rest of the people that now comprise a gig. Models knew how to do their own hair and makeup right into the mid- or late 60s... That not so subtle change in dynamic that came later (probably earlier in the States because they had more money to throw around and consume) was one reason why Lillian Bassman walked away from it all: it stole a huge part of the creativity from the camera.

It's damned easy to mock success; at times the mockery may be justiied, but not always...

Rob

[Rob C]

Oh obviously, and in all of the on set production photos that are out there of her working , the lights and stands are just brought in as props to make the set busier than it actually is.

If you look at some of the Peter Lindbergh videos you may actually come to that conclusion in all sincerity. I think it can be a marketing device much of the time, making a mountain out of a simple operation, which a lot of photography has always been. The more difficult and complex things seem, the more value people attach to your work. There's a secret the young must learn! If it looks too easy, then maybe the AD or client has a cousin who has a Canon or two... dangerous thoughts to engender within the money sources!

;-)

Rob

[Kirk_C]

"A light meter is only a guide. It shouldnt be used literally. When I decided to tone down the strobe, we made it even with the natural light rather than being a stop over. Then we went a stop or two under the natural light. I liked the way things looked when they were barely lit. The darker pictures seemed refined, mysterious."

If ambient was 1/125 at F/8 then flash was dialed in to the same exposure, ...' we made it even with the natural light..'

Then the flash was dialed down F/5.6 or f/4, '..we went a stop or two under the natural light..'

Let's be honest here, I've read the same thing about Annie Leibovitz. "Assistants do everything, all she does is click the shutter"....

Coincidence? I think not.

You're heard that same comment because it's been witnessed on many occasions and there is no coincidence.

Develop a 'look' =  formula to lighting setup = lead assistant learns the look = other assistants set up the look guided by lead assistant = crew see A.L. walk in to click shutter and do little else.

Stylists, camera tech, post production assistants all know the look and repeat the work. Emphasis on post production to maintain look.

Many, many of her assistants could show you her look if you asked because that's all they learned for her. And yes many of them went on to become successful, talented photographers after working for her. That's true for many assistants of damn near every well known photographer.

[Rob C]

Copying somebody else's lighting isn't enough: you need their people skills as well if you're going to make anything of the opportunity of the shoot.

Rob C

[UlfKrentz]

Copying somebody else's lighting isn't enough: you need their people skills as well if you're going to make anything of the opportunity of the shoot.

Rob C

Absolutely agree, see my post above...

[Kirk_C]

Absolutely agree, see my post above...

Absolutely true. But that has nothing to do with the point being made about who does the lighting/setup/production/post production.