Expanded Neutrals Testing

[Sbarroso]

Hi Mark,

I found the "Expanded Neutrals Testing" a very nicer article. Indeed, I find the shadow control in B&W pictures the most critical one. Based on my experience with one picture, I avoid printing images in my Pixma Pro 1 where large, very dark areas are crucial. I must admit that I only tested the B&W mode with that picture, not color mode + (canned) ICC profile. My experience also tells me that the canned profiles are also quite good at giving (apparently) neutral grays. Making my own profiles or ordering them is not worth for me and the intended use.

May be I read too fast your article, but I have two questions regarding it. Both relate to the better results you get using color mode with ICC profile instead of BW(/ABW) mode without the profile.

1) I considered that when using BW mode the printer makes a larger use of the specific gray inks. It's known that for the Pixma Pro 1 still some color is still used (drops visible under microscope), but most of the ink comes from the Black-Gray tanks. What about gray tones in color mode, do the printer use the gray tanks or it is using mainly/only the color inks? That would have implications in stability, since the gray ones should be more stable. For those who care.

2) In case that little or none of the gray inks are used in color mode, would it be possible to make an ICC profile in combination of BW mode for higher accuracy? I mean using a ICC profile in the LR printing module instead of "color Managed by Printer" + BW selected in the driver, without going into QuadTone or anything with a more steeply learning curve.

Unfortunately, this option would not work for those prints requiring 16 bits printing (for Windows user), since LR+Windows does not allow 16 bits printing, and the alternative Canon Print Studio Pro directly disables the option of choosing an ICC profile when the BW mode is selected. In that case, for me (unwilling to becoming an expert in RIPs and very specific software) the easiest procedure would be something like these:
  1) edit the picture at taste
  2) Apply a counter-correction to the internal printer profile (something that would represent your image incorrectly in the monitor, but would be printed accurately):
                option a) Loading a correction curve in "Curves"
                option b) Use "Assign profile" in Edit menu, loading a correcting profile
  3) print

I'm looking forward to your next articles

Best,
Santiago

[Dave Rosser]

Hi Mark,


Unfortunately, this option would not work for those prints requiring 16 bits printing (for Windows user), since LR+Windows does not allow 16 bits printing,
Best,
Santiago

Canon do provide a downloadable 16bit XMP printer driver for Windows on their web site.  You need the ordinary driver installed before installing the XMP driver.  After installing the XMP driver you will have 2 instances of your printer to select from, one standard and one 16bit.

Dave

Just seen your other post.  I must admit I tend to use print studio pro and so have not checked if printing from Lightroom directly is 16 bit with the XPS driver - your experience seems to confirm it is not.

[Alan Goldhammer]

2) In case that little or none of the gray inks are used in color mode, would it be possible to make an ICC profile in combination of BW mode for higher accuracy? I mean using a ICC profile in the LR printing module instead of "color Managed by Printer" + BW selected in the driver, without going into QuadTone or anything with a more steeply learning curve.

I can only comment from the perspective of an Epson printer user.  If you are still using Windows OS, it is possible to prepare profiles that can be used with the Epson ABW driver.  The MacOS eliminated this possibility several years ago (there was a lengthy discussion on this forum about that).  I still print B/W prints this way and have been making my own ABW profiles using a QuadTone tool to do so.  The advantage is that I can get a deeper black than if I use the normal Epson driver.

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Mark,

I found the "Expanded Neutrals Testing" a very nicer article. Indeed, I find the shadow control in B&W pictures the most critical one. Based on my experience with one picture, I avoid printing images in my Pixma Pro 1 where large, very dark areas are crucial. I must admit that I only tested the B&W mode with that picture, not color mode + (canned) ICC profile. My experience also tells me that the canned profiles are also quite good at giving (apparently) neutral grays. Making my own profiles or ordering them is not worth for me and the intended use.

May be I read too fast your article, but I have two questions regarding it. Both relate to the better results you get using color mode with ICC profile instead of BW(/ABW) mode without the profile.

1) I considered that when using BW mode the printer makes a larger use of the specific gray inks. It's known that for the Pixma Pro 1 still some color is still used (drops visible under microscope), but most of the ink comes from the Black-Gray tanks. What about gray tones in color mode, do the printer use the gray tanks or it is using mainly/only the color inks? That would have implications in stability, since the gray ones should be more stable. For those who care.

2) In case that little or none of the gray inks are used in color mode, would it be possible to make an ICC profile in combination of BW mode for higher accuracy? I mean using a ICC profile in the LR printing module instead of "color Managed by Printer" + BW selected in the driver, without going into QuadTone or anything with a more steeply learning curve.

Unfortunately, this option would not work for those prints requiring 16 bits printing (for Windows user), since LR+Windows does not allow 16 bits printing, and the alternative Canon Print Studio Pro directly disables the option of choosing an ICC profile when the BW mode is selected. In that case, for me (unwilling to becoming an expert in RIPs and very specific software) the easiest procedure would be something like these:
  1) edit the picture at taste
  2) Apply a counter-correction to the internal printer profile (something that would represent your image incorrectly in the monitor, but would be printed accurately):
                option a) Loading a correction curve in "Curves"
                option b) Use "Assign profile" in Edit menu, loading a correcting profile
  3) print

I'm looking forward to your next articles

Best,
Santiago

Hi Santiago,

Thanks very much - glad you enjoyed the article.

On your two questions:

Re (1), I have no first-hand knowledge of what works better in respect of print permanence, except to say I've read the same stuff you've probably read about black/grey inks performing better than some of the colour pigments in respect of long-term stability. Yellow was said to be the weakest of the inkset (Epson anyhow) and the new HDX inkset is said to considerably improve the long-term stability of yellow ink. Between the two approaches (ICC profiles versus driver-managed B&W), both maximize the use of grey and black inks for monochrome photos, and both use colours when the B&W is not intended to be strictly neutral. Epson's ABW mode does not draw on Cyan and Magenta, but will draw on the lighter versions. I don't know the inner detail of the Canon B&W mode in this respect.

Re (2): Apart from what Alan says above - very useful guidance for that particular set-up, as far as I know you have two basic options if you don't want to involve any other software: (i) use the standard ICC profile approach that gives you complete control over image tonality and softproofing for assurance of printed outcomes, or (ii) use the B&W or ABW approach which is accessed from the printer driver and only gives you approximate predictability of outcomes. Approach (ii) allows slightly deeper Black rendition than approach (i), but I have yet to be convinced it's important enough to sacrifice the control I want over my results. That said, some people have become specialized enough in how they use ABW that they can predict quite well which settings will work best for which photos and obtain results they are fully satisfied with.

I shall be having more to say about B&W printing in my forthcoming Epson SC-P5000 article, also treating these subjects, but focused on Epson. You may have seen what I evaluated regarding B&W in my Canon Pro-1000 and Pro-2000 reviews.