Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Adobe Color Printer Utility – New Problem ? (Mac OS El Capitan 10.11.6)  (Read 21795 times)

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1280

I'm not puzzled. Unless one has highly unusual visual accuity and memory relative to normal human visual perception, we cannot confidently predict from simply looking at a profiling target, regardless of how many we have made and looked at, whether the profile made from such target will perform accurately. I've made and looked at enough of them, then tested their accuracy on all kinds of paper to be quite convinced of this. It would be interesting if Mark MCG could use his target that he says looks good for making a test print with known reference values that he can then measure with a spectrophotometer and tell us what the dE(76) readings are.

I firmly disagree with Mark S., but with one caveat.  Mark S. is correct that visual assessment of the printed test target is very difficult if not a fool's game when one is using scrambled patch ICC test targets, or the "striped pattern" ones like i1Profiler makes as standard. However, the TC918 pattern as supplied in Profilemaker 5.1 software has a beautiful visually ordered arrangement of colors and tones as originally designed by Bill Atkinson. It does indeed allow one to inspect it visually and know in advance whether the non managed color target path is working right. I never said one could tell final profile accuracy by looking at the test target any more than one can judge the output from a well-built 1000 patch ICC profile compared to the output from a well built 5000 patch profile without going through more analytics. But you sure can tell whether the non color managed printer path got broken!

I will be happy to turn that target print into a full blown ICC profile tomorrow, just as proof of principle (yet again like I've done hundreds and hundreds of times before). Will let you know the results from printing with said profile tomorrow. The media I used to run the test target test today was Canon Photo Pro Plus Semigloss.

I stand by my earlier statements, and will further confirm tomorrow.  Mac OS El Capitan with latest Canon Pro-1 firmware and driver software is not breaking Mac's Colorsync Utility "print as color target" feature on my Mac computer. I don't dispute that something isn't working right for the OP, but to argue that OP's outcome overrides my outcome on my system, implies I don't understand the ICC profiling process, and thus is, frankly, a bit condescending.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 09:44:01 pm by MHMG »
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

.............but to argue that OP's outcome overrides my outcome on my system, implies I don't understand the ICC profiling process, and thus is, frankly, a bit condescending.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

Who ever implied you don't understand the profiling process? You saw one thing, Simon thought you were talking about ACPU but you clarified it was ACU and saw something else and I questioned whether one can come to reliable conclusions just by looking at the target (I doubted it, but you say you can because you have a particular version that facilitates this; fine). So? The idea is to help the OP get the issue sorted out with facts, tests, numbers and - for him - workable procedures. Throwing around descriptors like "condescending" when there is no apparent intent doesn't help anyone or anything. I appreciate your experience, interest and effort even while I can question this or that idea, and I have no doubt the same applies to the OP, whose main interest is to solve a problem. There's a straightforward technical path for both of you to come to a common understanding on all of this and I too have an interest in seeing the outcomes. So full throttle forward.......
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1280

... You saw one thing, Simon thought you were talking about ACPU but you clarified it was ACU and saw something else and I questioned whether one can come to reliable conclusions just by looking at the target

So that we are not going around in circles here, did or did not Simon follow up his ACPU test with a test of the "print as color target" feature in ACU?

If not, the ball is in Simon's court. I say ACU works fine using the "print as color target" feature with El Capitan and latest Pro-1 firmware and driver to produce non color managed output. If I'm wrong, we can all have a good laugh later. If I'm right, but it doesn't work for Simon, then the mystery of our discrepancy remains unsolved at this point in time

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

I think we're waiting for Simon to try what you suggested. If it works, we're done. If it doesn't, then its most likely some difference in settings and *shouldn't* be hard to sleuth it. I'm using those ** because in this business wonders never cease. :-)
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1280

I think we're waiting for Simon to try what you suggested. If it works, we're done. If it doesn't, then its most likely some difference in settings and *shouldn't* be hard to sleuth it. I'm using those ** because in this business wonders never cease. :-)

Tracking back to reply #9, it does appear Simon tried ACU, but did not have success. However, that post further describes attempts to assign source profiles to the target while using ACU, which, with all due respect, was a total waste of time, ink, and media. The "print as color target" feature has to be invoked correctly in ACU. When that step is done correctly, all other ICC profile options are greyed out. And if further attempting to use the "Color matching" submenu item in the printer driver, ACU greys that option out as well when "print as color target" feature has been properly invoked. The greyed out nature of the "Color matching" menu items is a very good way to check on the Mac if color management has indeed been turned off. If the Canon driver further imposes an RGB transformation of the incoming unmodified data from ACU, then it is indeed a bug in the Canon driver, and I have seen that with some Canon drivers before. However, I used the ACU "print as color target" feature today to print to my Pro-1 and am entirely confident I produced non color managed output notwithstanding Mark S.'s doubts about my claim.

I also confirmed that I could still use ACU successfully with latest firmware and software by updating my older Pro-1 driver version. I also just now checked to find that Canon's Print Studio Pro software does indeed support "no color correction" for my Pro-1000, but not for my Pro-1, or Pro-100, thus confirming what the Canon-provided table posted earlier appears to document, i.e., that the "no color correction" menu item is apparently a feature of imageprograf models Pro-1000, 2000, and 4000 only. This leaves Colormunki sofware, i1profiler software, and ACU as best bets for non color managed target output to Pro-1, Pro-10, and Pro-100 models, and i1profiler and ACU both work for me in this regard on my system. I don't own a Colormunki, but I have not reason to believe Xrite isn't using essentially the same code for both Colormunki and i1Profiler to overide the normally enforced color management pathway on the Mac.

Simon, may I suggest you give ACU another go? If you still can't make it work, then I suspect it will be challenging in an open forum setting to try to figure out why it works for me and not you given that we both seem to be using the same printer firmware and software on same Mac OS El Capitan version.

later,
Mark
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 10:56:08 pm by MHMG »
Logged

Simon J.A. Simpson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 507

Mark S and Mark HMG.  I tried using the Apple ColorSync Utility, the results of which were posted at #38.

in conclusion, I cannot print accurate targets using either the ‘Adobe Color Print Utility’ nor the ‘Apple ColorSync UtilityĆ, nor ‘Canon Print Studio Pro’.  In the former two because the targets prints are not accurate (and I am using a reference print to compare them to) and in the latter because the option to print without colour management is not available.

I am awaiting the results of Canon's technical support’s escalation.   They have been very responsive and are taking the issue seriously.

Let's see what they have to say.

I am happy to undertake more tests as suggested.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

Somehow or other, my response to post 44 last night didn't "take" - anyhow it was mainly to agree with Mark MC-G that the targets need to be printed without assigning ANY profiles ANYWHERE in the imaging pipeline. So Simon, if you did assign profiles in the print process, it was an incorrect procedure and you can't tell from that whether printing from ACU will or will not work correctly for you. As you are willing to do another test, may I suggest that you replicate exactly the steps that Mark MC-G listed in his previous posts, making sure that there are no profiles assigned anywhere in your print pipeline (it all needs to be profile-free, un-managed), and then see whether you have an acceptable outcome. Do let us know.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Simon J.A. Simpson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 507

Somehow or other, my response to post 44 last night didn't "take" - anyhow it was mainly to agree with Mark MC-G that the targets need to be printed without assigning ANY profiles ANYWHERE in the imaging pipeline. So Simon, if you did assign profiles in the print process, it was an incorrect procedure and you can't tell from that whether printing from ACU will or will not work correctly for you. As you are willing to do another test, may I suggest that you replicate exactly the steps that Mark MC-G listed in his previous posts, making sure that there are no profiles assigned anywhere in your print pipeline (it all needs to be profile-free, un-managed), and then see whether you have an acceptable outcome. Do let us know.

My apologies, my post #9 may have added to the confusion.

In my latest test at #38 I can assure both Marks that no colour management was used, no profiles assigned; and I double checked the printer dialogue just to be sure (all possibilities for colour management were greyed-out).  And I did actually say that I had followed Mark HMG’s instructions to the letter !  I promise you I did too !  :)

I am open to the possibility of user error here; but as yet we have not been able to discover what that might be ?

It will be interesting to see what Canon come back with.  This might shed some light.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

OK Simon, thanks for clarifying. So now I need to put the same issue to you that I addressed to the other Mark yesterday: how do you know the real quality of your target prints? What exactly did you compare them against? Have you tried making and testing a profile with them?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1280

I followed through with Mark S.'s request by building a custom ICC profile from the ACU printed test target using i1Profiler set to it "Colorful" default setting.  The TC918 target has a 9x9x9 grid of RGB color patches that gets used to build the profile. I'm not sure whether i1profiler uses all 918 patches or just the 729 patches of the grid, but very decent profiles get built with the TC918 target if the printer is running properly and the target was successfully printed with color management turned off.

I have attached two screenshot views comparing the color gamut volume of Canon's generic supplied Pro-1 printer profile for the Canon PPPSG paper to the gamut volume created by the custom i1Profiler/TC918 profile I built with the ACU printed color target. The red color in the graphs is for the generic profile. The Blue color shows the gamut volume of my custom made profile. As can be seen in the two views, the custom profile produced a slightly larger gamut volume than the generic Canon profile on my Pro-1 printer. However, this is probably not of practical significance. The more important fact is that the overall gamut volume shape of the two profiles are totally consistent with each other which would not occur if ACU had failed to produce a non color managed target outcome.

That said, gamut volumes only address the potential of the system to make colors not the accuracy of the colors produced on the print by the profile. So, I did a quick and dirty test to verify and compare the printed output accuracy of both profiles.  I made two color prints using a digital image of a Macbeth ColorChecker Chart with colorimetrically perfect embedded lab values of all the colors and using perceptual rendering intent for both prints.  One print was made with the Canon supplied Pro-1 generic profile for the PPPSG paper, the other with the custom i1Profiler-built profile. Both prints showed the merits of color managed output, but to my eye under controlled lighting the generic profile produced a noticeably darker print than the custom profile yet with hue and chroma accuracy being in close agreement between both prints. I preferred the lighter version created by my custom profile and when placing both prints side by side an actual ColorChecker chart, the lighter version of the print was the better overall match, IMHO.   I then spot checked a few of the color patches with an i1Pro2 spectrophotometer to confirm my visual impression of both prints.  Here are a few measured values.  I could have measured all 24 patches, but these three pretty much tell the story.  Note the L* values in particular.  The generic proflle was printing patches 4-6 L* units darker than the custom profile throughout most of the midtone tonal range, while a* and b* values are very close for both prints. The custom profiled print is the colorimetrically better match to the actual ColorChecker reference target owing to the significantly better agreement on L*. Most viewers would prefer the lighter print if they saw it side by side the actual ColorChecker, although without a direct comparison many amateur printmakers would probably be satisfied with either print.

Actual Colorchecker value             Printed value Generic ICC,         Printed value Custom ICC

mid tone gray  LAB = 51, 0. 0           LAB = 42, -1, -1                         LAB = 48, 0, -1
Black patch     LAB = 20, 0, -1          LAB = 14, 0, -2                          LAB = 18, 0, -2
Skin tone         LAB = 66, 18, 18,      LAB = 58, 18, 19                        LAB = 64,16,16

So, to summarize:  I was able to use ACU running under Mac OS El Capitan, and also with the latest Pro-1 firmware, and the latest Pro-1 printer driver to successfully print a non color managed ICC profiling target. The 918 color patches were then measured and used to make a properly performing custom ICC profile, one that essentially exceeds the quality of the generic Canon supplied profile on my Pro-1 print unit by virtue of better tonal fidelity while maintaining comparable hue and chroma accuracy.

My conclusion is that Simon's issue is unlikely to be a bug in the Canon driver (although I've seen Canon drivers with real bugs before :) ) nor in ACU, otherwise I should have duplicated Simon's results and concurred that ACU wasn't giving proper output. That leaves the million dollar question. Why is Simon unable to duplicate my results given that we appear to have exactly the same OS, same printer model, same printer driver, and same ACU software to "print as color target"?  Simon, if you haven't already done so, try deleting your printer driver in the Mac System preferences pane, rebooting your computer from full off mode (not just a restart), and then re-add the driver back into the Mac's printer cue. This trick goes a long way to curing many strange printer woes on a MAC, but I'm stumped to suggest anything else if that doesn't work. Hopefully, Canon can give you some other ideas.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 03:15:37 pm by MHMG »
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

This is very interesting Mark in that it provides reasonable evidence that the ACU is a workable approach for printing profiling targets. Useful contribution, thanks for doing it.

I was going to try something similar this morning, but every time I tried to open Colorsync Utility all I got was a non-stop spinning beach ball, so I Forced Quit it, sent a report to Apple and moved on to other things (that do work).

Anyhow, the remainder of this story is to understand why Simon isn't doing as well as you did, so let's see what he comes up with next.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1280


I was going to try something similar this morning, but every time I tried to open Colorsync Utility all I got was a non-stop spinning beach ball, so I Forced Quit it, sent a report to Apple and moved on to other things (that do work).


Yes, if there's an achilles heel to ACU it's that its performance is very MAC OS version sensitive because Apple treats it a little bit like a step child. So, it performs poorly on some older versions of Mac OS, fairly but not perfectly in the latest update to Mac EL Captan, and I have no idea how it does in MAC Sierra because I'm not yet willing to make the upgrade. I'm worried about my HPZ3200 printer driver's performance on Sierra, so will probably freeze my current machine on El Capitan, eventually move to Sierra when I buy my next Mac.

Because Simon and I are both on the same Mac OS version, we should be experiencing similar ACU performance.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 06:13:49 pm by MHMG »
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

I'm on El Capitan and am not upgrading to Sierra until I can have confidence in its reliability. So ACU is not functioning properly even on "recent" versions of OSX. Not surprising. Apart from the operating system (once they debug the updates) I find Apple software in general underwhelming, so I'm not surprised about this. "It just works" was a 20th century concept. But that's a whole other talk-show.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1280

I'm on El Capitan and am not upgrading to Sierra until I can have confidence in its reliability. So ACU is not functioning properly even on "recent" versions of OSX. Not surprising. Apart from the operating system (once they debug the updates) I find Apple software in general underwhelming, so I'm not surprised about this. "It just works" was a 20th century concept. But that's a whole other talk-show.

Well, I do hope I'm not the outlier, but based on other responses in this thread, it seems like maybe I am. ACU works reliably for me on Mac OS 10.11.6, and so does ACU's "print as color target" feature when printing to the same printer, firmware, and driver software that apparently is not working well for Simon. And it works reliably for me with any number of other printers I presently have in my studio (Canon Pro-1000, Canon Pro-100, Epson P600, Epson P400, Epson 3880, and more). That said, I do tend to agree that, "it just works" is a quaint reminder of the "good ole" days on Mac computers.
Logged

Simon J.A. Simpson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 507

Marks both…

First, my thanks to you both; particularly to Mark HMG for all the trouble you have taken on my behalf.

I have undertaken some extensive testing and believe I have gotten to the bottom of this.

The issue has, for me, been clouded by a couple of factors.

Deprecated Test File
I was using my simple test file, posted earlier, as a quick check as to whether ACPU and ACU were printing untagged targets correctly.  It transpires that the file had been deprecated at some point in the past (I have my suspicions here) and that the values printed were not 100% RGB and CYM.  The file has now been rectified.

New Tests
I printed the new file with ACPU and ACU and both now appear to be printing correctly in that fully saturated patches of ink are being laid down.  I measured patches of prints from both pieces of software and they correlate to each other to within 1–2%.  I would take this to be good enough for confirmation of a correlation.  Marks both, you will have to forgive me as I do not have the sophisticated measuring instruments and software at your disposal and have to rely on my ColorMunki to make measurements.

I then re-did the test with some untagged targets, which correlated with each other.  Some measurements of a few patches confirmed this.

I visually compared the prints of targets and my test file with earlier historical prints and this confirms that ACPU and ACU are printing untagged targets correctly.

I believe I can now confirm that ACU and ACPU are indeed working correctly under El Capitan, as Mark HMG says, and that I was being misled by the deprecated test file.


However.


Display of Untagged Images
I noticed that untagged images (targets) are displayed differently in Photoshop, ACPU and ACU (quick off-screen measurements confirm this).  The differences between ACPU and ACU are very small and (with limited testing) do not seem to be reproduced in printing.  The difference between Photoshop (CC 2017) and the other two is marked.  It looks to me as if Photoshop is clipping colours at the saturated end whereas ACPU and ACU are not.  ACPU and ACU displays are retaining a fair representation of the differences between patches in the file whereas Photoshop is not.  The Photoshop images look much brighter and well saturated which is why I did not immediately recognise that my test file was deprecated (and the visual difference is almost zero between the old and rectified files).  I tried turning-off colour management in Photoshop but this made no difference to the display of both files.  Just to be absolutely clear I did not make prints of untagged images from Photoshop – for obvious reasons !


Creating Untagged Files for Printing in ACPU/ACU
This issue arose when I was trying to use ACPU to print targets from the ColorMunki software (there is an earlier posting of mine on how to do this).  Whilst my earlier method worked well and produced good profiles (under Lion) when I updated to El Capitan and the later versions of Photoshop I was unable to create accurate target files (they were badly deprecated having appeared to have been tagged with sRGB somewhere in the process).  Long story short.  It transpires that in order to retain the file without some element of colour management being introduced you have to ensure that Photoshop’s colour management is turned-off before importing the file from ColorMunki.  This then gives correct untagged target files for printing from ACPU/ACU.

Thank You
So, Mark S and Mark HMG, a big thank you for your efforts and advice on my behalf.  This really demonstrates the value of forums such as LuLa where being able to discuss and explore issues with others (particularly the more experienced and knowledgeable) helps to diagnose a complicated problem and in the end benefits all of us.
Logged

Simon J.A. Simpson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 507

I spoke with Canon this morning and passed-on the news that printing untagged targets through ACPU and ACU is working satisfactorily; as well as offering my grovelling apologies.  They were just pleased that the issue had been satisfactorily resolved.

I did leave with them the suggestion to allow, in a future update, Canon's Print Studio Pro to print targets without colour management as it can for the Pro 1000 and Pro 2000 printers.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

Glad you got to the bottom of it, and good feedback to Canon.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1280


Display of Untagged Images
I noticed that untagged images (targets) are displayed differently in Photoshop, ACPU and ACU (quick off-screen measurements confirm this).  The differences between ACPU and ACU are very small and (with limited testing) do not seem to be reproduced in printing.  The difference between Photoshop (CC 2017) and the other two is marked.  It looks to me as if Photoshop is clipping colours at the saturated end whereas ACPU and ACU are not.  ACPU and ACU displays are retaining a fair representation of the differences between patches in the file whereas Photoshop is not.  The Photoshop images look much brighter and well saturated which is why I did not immediately recognise that my test file was deprecated (and the visual difference is almost zero between the old and rectified files).  I tried turning-off colour management in Photoshop but this made no difference to the display of both files.  Just to be absolutely clear I did not make prints of untagged images from Photoshop – for obvious reasons !


Somewhere around PSCS6 photoshop became a fully color managed environment with no way around, partly in response to some of the operating changes Apple was making to its OS.  Hence, Adobe had to create the separate ACPU software to deal with target printing. Apple later stepped up and added the "print as color target feature" to ACU as well.
 
Thus, when you bring in an untagged image into PS, photoshop will color manage it anyway, by assuming it has the same colorspace as your chosen working space setting found in the "color settings" menu.  So if you have sRGB set in your color settings menu, then untagged image will look quite different than if you set your working space to aRGB or prophoto, and of course prophoto will show many clipped colors on an ICC profiling target which inevitably has RGB triplets that would specify a color way beyond your monitor's gamut. I really don't know what ACU and ACPU do, but my guess is they just use your monitor's display profile and leave it at that. So, the moral of the story is don't worry about what the target looks like in PS, or ACU, or ACPU, Just worry that the print is truly non color managed, and as I noted in earlier discussion, if you are using an ordered target with a nice visual progression of colors (not scrambled colors) then judging whether color management got turned off correctly is just a matter of getting some visual experience looking at the printed target. I print the Bill Atkinson designed TC918 test target so often that I know what it should and shouldn't look like in my sleep :).


Creating Untagged Files for Printing in ACPU/ACU
This issue arose when I was trying to use ACPU to print targets from the ColorMunki software (there is an earlier posting of mine on how to do this).  Whilst my earlier method worked well and produced good profiles (under Lion) when I updated to El Capitan and the later versions of Photoshop I was unable to create accurate target files (they were badly deprecated having appeared to have been tagged with sRGB somewhere in the process).  Long story short.  It transpires that in order to retain the file without some element of colour management being introduced you have to ensure that Photoshop’s colour management is turned-off before importing the file from ColorMunki.  This then gives correct untagged target files for printing from ACPU/ACU


PS offers various way of dealing with untagged targets when they open. One choice is that it will immediately assign your working space profile. Another is "ask me what to do", and another is "don't color manage the document" which assigns no tag but display the untagged file as per the discussion above. My guess is your PS version is currently set to immediately assign the working space profile to any untagged target, and BTW PS does allow you to unembed profiles, You want to be aware of these PS behaviors any time you open a colormunki target (or any other profiling target file for that matter) in PS.

Glad you got things sorted.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

..............I really don't know what ACU and ACPU do, but my guess is they just use your monitor's display profile and leave it at that. ...........
best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

I don't either, but I would image they do as you mention here for showing the monitor appearance of the target. For managing the print pipeline it must be another story. I've read somewhere that they create what is called a "null transform" so that the effect of a colour space assignment is zeroed out. But I'm not certain if that's really what happens under the hood or how it works. It would be informative for someone who knows it from the inside to provide an explanation.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Simon J.A. Simpson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 507

Somewhere around PSCS6 photoshop became a fully color managed environment with no way around, partly in response to some of the operating changes Apple was making to its OS.  Hence, Adobe had to create the separate ACPU software to deal with target printing. Apple later stepped up and added the "print as color target feature" to ACU as well.
I know, I was actively involved in this.
 
Quote
Thus, when you bring in an untagged image into PS, photoshop will color manage it anyway by assuming it has the same colorspace as your chosen working space setting found in the "color settings" menu.
Even when colour management is turned off in Photoshop ?  Judging by the file’s appearance in Photoshop it seems to assume a ProPhoto colour space even when CM is off.

Quote
judging whether color management got turned off correctly is just a matter of getting some visual experience looking at the printed target
I have this experience. :) :) :)

Quote
PS offers various way of dealing with untagged targets when they open. One choice is that it will immediately assign your working space profile. Another is "ask me what to do", and another is "don't color manage the document" which assigns no tag but display the untagged file as per the discussion above. My guess is your PS version is currently set to immediately assign the working space profile to any untagged target, and BTW PS does allow you to unembed profiles, You want to be aware of these PS behaviors any time you open a colormunki target (or any other profiling target file for that matter) in PS.
I always use “Ask When Opening”.  I don't then assign a profile and Photoshop opens it untagged.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up