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fotagf8

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Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« on: March 29, 2017, 05:41:52 pm »

I have had the Fuji GFX 50s for a few days, together with the 120mm macro and the 32-64 zoom lenses.  Unfortunately, in Chicago, we are now into a second week of fog, gray skies, and rain, so contrast is hard to come by, as are eye popping colors like pink, red, yellow, and the other colors that someone who was in New Orleans was able to experience.  I have shot a little bit in the fog, and today I decided to test some flowers in my studio.  Here are my observations.

A.  Style.  A lot has been written about how the GFX is downright ugly.  It is not stylish (like my Arca Swiss RMd3i), but it isn't hideous.  It looks better than most black DSLRs to my eyes. 

B.  Build Quality.  It is a well built camera.  I am always worried about card slot and battery doors breaking (often pretty flimsy).  The doors are sturdy and the camera is solid.

C.  Design Flaws.  I have already informed Fuji that when the next body comes out they need to change the strap lug position.  Unless it is perfectly positioned, it prevents the card slot door from being opened.  Once you see the problem, it is easy enough to watch where the lug is, but it is a sloppy design feature.  Also there are safety locks for the strap.  At the place of insertion, the strap is too thick, which makes it difficult to insert them.

D.  Menus.  I am new to Fuji, and I have a preference for simple menus, like those on Leica M digital cameras or the Leaf back.  I don't use most of the features offered in the menus.  Having said that, I got the hang of the menus pretty quickly.  They are well organized by category groups.  Additionally, the menu system has a MYMenu group. It took about 5 minutes to put the odd ball features that I would be using in that menu.  My dream is menu software that allows me to design the menus on a computer, leaving everything I will never use out, but nobody seems to do that.

F.  Focus.  I like the joy stick focus and it is well positioned on the back of the camera.  Normally, even after using a camera for awhile, I have to look at the camera to find the button for moving the focus point.  For me, that is not the case with the Fuji.  Overall, I find the focus a bit slow, but adequate.  I don't intend to shoot sports.  I pretty much wanted to try medium format in a portable camera that I could travel with.  I like shooting city architecture and landscapes, so fast focus was not a priority in this camera.  My one concern is that the focus point is very large, so you can be over a spot that has one object in the distance, overlapped by an object in the foreground.  It isn't always clear to me what is in focus.  I am still trying to figure out whether I can make the focus point smaller.

G.  ISO.  I don't normally go above 3200.  My first day out, I went out at around 6PM and it was cloudy, so I set the ISO to 5,000, so I could hand hold the camera.  The results were pretty bad by my standards, but again, this is not the camera that I would normally pick up for that sort of shooting.  I should say, I am loathe to use noise reduction because I don't like the way it softens edges, but others may not have a problem with that, particularly if they are not printing large.

H.  Raw Files.  I had read a number of comments that raised questions about the color in the raw file profiles.  I processed the photographs in Adobe Camera Raw.  I would say the color that shows up in the files before I have touched them is pretty spot on.  Now, if you are shooting clothing for a catalog, you may come to a different conclusion, but I didn't see any problems for my purposes.  I did find that the files needed sharpening.  The converter did not include a default setting, as is sometimes the case.  I sharpened at 25.

I.  Lens Size.  The zoom came first, and I thought it was huge.  After receiving the 120, the zoom looked small.  Both lenses are well balanced.

J.  Technical Support.  The 120 made a lot of noise out of the box, so I called Fuji.  They assured me that was normal.  Today, when I was actually using the lens, I could hear it, but it was not a big deal.  Much quieter, so maybe the lens needed a little bit of use to settle in.  I found the support technician extremely knowledgable and he really was invested with making the camera work to my satisfaction.  We talked briefly about the Fuji Pro program, which provides cleaning and repair benefits.  I may opt for that.

K.  Tripod.  I plan to shoot this camera off a tripod most of the time, which has been a little frustrating.  I use Arca Swiss tripod mounts, and I don't have a foot that works with this camera properly.  I called Really Right Stuff.  The L plate is under design and should be available in 6 to 8 weeks according to the person I spoke with.

L.  Wifi.  Setting up the Wifi connection with my iPad was easy.  I really like that feature.  I can use the iPad or a iPhone as a trigger.  I told the technician that they needed to make several improvements.  First, it would be nice if the iPad version could display gridlines.  Also, you can change ISO and shutter speed from the iPad, but not aperture, which makes sense to me.  But when you change it on the lens, it does not update on the iPad.  To update it, you need to disconnect and then reconnect the wifi. 

M.  Flash.  I set up strobe to take the macro photographs.  My pocketwizard worked the first time I tried it, and it worked consistently.  I was using the manual shutter.  It did not work when I put the camera in electronic shutter mode.  i will have to see whether there is a fix for that.

N.  Fujifilm EVF-TL1 EVF Tilt Adapter.  I purchased this, and it will be useful, but it is not something you are going to want to leave on the camera all the time.  Tilted it works fine, but it creates an awkward feel when it is just an extension of the viewfinder.

O.  Blackout.  I forget whether people were complaining about the X1D or the GFX when they were referring to momentary blackout when taking a photograph. I have been using Sandisk 80mb per second cards, and have not noticed any significant blackout.  There is a rolling blackout when you use the WIFI on the iPad.  I assume that is the WIFI transfer/handoff taking place.  Using Wifi, you can't take a second photograph for about 8 or 9 seconds, again I assume that is because the transfer is taking place.

P.  Hand Held.  I did find that I could handhold the camera with decent results, but I haven't adequately tested that aspect of the camera yet.  The two attached photographs were handheld, but the flash means that this is not a good test.  The 120 has image stabilization, but I turned that off when I put it on the tripod.  I forgot to turn it back on when handholding.

Overall I am very satisfied, but I need more time with the camera to really make that determination.  Over the last three years, I have been using a tech camera, and I must admit, I still prefer it because of the movements.  Yet, I don't find it practical to travel with.

I will post my macros separately later since this post didn't post the first time I posted it.
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cgarnerhome

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2017, 08:27:06 pm »

Thanks for taking the time to post your impressions.  I have received my camera and lenses but haven't had the chance to really shoot with it exception some test images. I hope others post their experiences. 

Paul2660

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2017, 10:46:14 pm »

Thanks for the post.

The 120mm does make a lot of noise. It's the OIS moving element. I wish there was a way to have the part lock down. It moves even with the lens off the camera.

High ISO raw will vary by raw converter. Currently LR does not do the best on the high ISO files if pushed.

Paul Caldwell
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Quentin

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2017, 11:54:43 pm »

Hi there

Yes, a fair summary.  Its the 120mm macro with stabilisation that is the killer combo for me.  Complete lack of CA for starters, and the stabilisation works so very well.   I leave it on even when on the tripod.  Great for hand held work.

You probably won't like it to start with, but Silkypix (full version 8 ) gives better results than ACR in my view.  I use film simulation, and set to Provia.

It is when the quality adapters start appearing that the versatility of the GFX will become more obvious.  Then we will be able to use a wider range of specialist lenses.  I'm waiting on the Cambo adapter for Canon lenses to use the TS-E 24mm on the GFX, which I think will give around a 20mm field of view, with tilt and shift possibilities.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 12:12:42 am »


C.  Design Flaws.  I have already informed Fuji that when the next body comes out they need to change the strap lug position.  Unless it is perfectly positioned, it prevents the card slot door from being opened.  Once you see the problem, it is easy enough to watch where the lug is, but it is a sloppy design feature.  Also there are safety locks for the strap.  At the place of insertion, the strap is too thick, which makes it difficult to insert them.  I am still trying to figure out whether I can make the focus point smaller.

I gave up on trying to get the lock to work.

G.  ISO.  I don't normally go above 3200.  My first day out, I went out at around 6PM and it was cloudy, so I set the ISO to 5,000, so I could hand hold the camera.  The results were pretty bad by my standards, but again, this is not the camera that I would normally pick up for that sort of shooting.  I should say, I am loathe to use noise reduction because I don't like the way it softens edges, but others may not have a problem with that, particularly if they are not printing large.

The camera stops brightening the raw files about ISO 1600. It just inserts a metadata tag for the raw developer, which at this point may or may not honor it.

The tripod screw hole on the rotating collar of the otherwise excellent H-series adapter is too shallow for the screw from a RRS plate. It needs to be shimmed to get it to work.

The 120 macro is amazing at distance (I haven't tested it up close yet):

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/17730/

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/otus-85-on-the-a7rii-fuji-120mm-macro-on-the-gfx-50s/

Jim

fotagf8

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2017, 12:21:27 am »

I gave up on trying to get the lock to work.

This is where my wife comes in handy.  The hardest part of any camera setup for me is getting the strap on, and she got it on no sweat, except the locks.  She was screaming about how badly designed the strap is relative to the locks.  Finally, she just said the hell with it, and jammed it in hard--well not actually:  She had me pull up on the strap, while she jammed the lock in.  It took four hands.  Her MIT education coming in handy.
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fotagf8

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2017, 12:31:04 am »

Hi there

You probably won't like it to start with, but Silkypix (full version 8 ) gives better results than ACR in my view.  I use film simulation, and set to Provia.


I will probably download it, but the results will have to be much better.  I use Capture One for one system because of the LCC files, and for everything else I go from ACR to Photoshop.  Not sure I want to learn another system, but I will give it a go.  Thanks for the suggestion.
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elundqvist_photo

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2017, 04:04:10 am »


F.  Focus.  I like the joy stick focus and it is well positioned on the back of the camera.  Normally, even after using a camera for awhile, I have to look at the camera to find the button for moving the focus point.  For me, that is not the case with the Fuji.  Overall, I find the focus a bit slow, but adequate.  I don't intend to shoot sports.  I pretty much wanted to try medium format in a portable camera that I could travel with.  I like shooting city architecture and landscapes, so fast focus was not a priority in this camera.  My one concern is that the focus point is very large, so you can be over a spot that has one object in the distance, overlapped by an object in the foreground.  It isn't always clear to me what is in focus.  I am still trying to figure out whether I can make the focus point smaller.

M.  Flash.  I set up strobe to take the macro photographs.  My pocketwizard worked the first time I tried it, and it worked consistently.  I was using the manual shutter.  It did not work when I put the camera in electronic shutter mode.  i will have to see whether there is a fix for that.


F. "Press" the joystick and you will unlock the resize function. Use the front control wheel to change the size of the AF point.

M. Not possible I'm afraid. No flash when using ES for any Fuji X/GFX camera.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 04:07:29 am by elundqvist_photo »
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fotagf8

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2017, 07:27:31 am »

F. "Press" the joystick and you will unlock the resize function. Use the front control wheel to change the size of the AF point.

M. Not possible I'm afraid. No flash when using ES for any Fuji X/GFX camera.

Thanks
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Paul2660

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2017, 08:01:06 am »

Flash.

You can use HSS with the GFX. Currently the EF-X500 flash has this support. Not sure where the GFX and HSS is with externally controlled flashes.

Paul Caldwell
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fotagf8

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2017, 10:29:36 am »

"The camera stops brightening the raw files about ISO 1600. It just inserts a metadata tag for the raw developer, which at this point may or may not honor it."

Paul, this is a bit over my head.  Why would they say the camera handles higher ISOs even if it doesn't?  Can this be addressed through a firmware fix?

Thanks
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Paul2660

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2017, 10:33:38 am »

"The camera stops brightening the raw files about ISO 1600. It just inserts a metadata tag for the raw developer, which at this point may or may not honor it."

Paul, this is a bit over my head.  Why would they say the camera handles higher ISOs even if it doesn't?  Can this be addressed through a firmware fix?

Thanks

I just read this also, and it's an interesting find.  I an curious now how the X1D and previous P1 backs handle this as the metadata tag issue sounds exactly how a CCD chip handles higher ISO. 

So far I have found the GFX to handle higher ISO very well, up to around 4000.  There is not much push past 2500 however so exposure needs to be spot on.  Still cleaner than I had hoped.  The raw conversion by LR/ACR on the higher ISO files needs a bit of work IMO as LR shows a very bland conversion with more noise than I expected. 

Paul Caldwell
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fotagf8

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2017, 10:51:27 am »

Sorry Paul, I attributed a comment to you that really is Jim Kasson's.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2017, 12:23:55 pm »

"The camera stops brightening the raw files about ISO 1600. It just inserts a metadata tag for the raw developer, which at this point may or may not honor it."

Paul, this is a bit over my head.  Why would they say the camera handles higher ISOs even if it doesn't?  Can this be addressed through a firmware fix?


In my opinion, this is a very good thing. In fact, it's the way I think that all digital cameras should act when they enter the ISO region where more analog gain does not materially change  the signal to noise ratio. Adding more analog gain then, or, even worse, applying digital gain to the raw data before writing it to the memory card, does nothing useful, and restricts highlight headroom.

It's a lot better when the digital gain is under the control of the photographer in post, and when essentially unlimited precision and computer cycles are available to apply it.

Three cheers for Fuji, on this point.

They could, of course, "fix" it with new FW, but in my mind that would be a big step backwards, and make me refuse to advance the ISO knob past 1600, and deal with dim viewfinders and more steps in post.

Jim

Paul2660

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2017, 11:47:59 am »

Spent a lot of time this morning working with various Nikon glass on the GFX, results were less than stellar. I will say that manual focus with the LCD is not a problem for me and with peaking turned on excellent. All testing was done with the Fotodiox adapter. I will put up some crops on my site over the weekend.

Tried both the 20mm, 24mm and 35mm Art lenses, all were great on center, but the corners were just bad, just plain bad, which really surprised me. The 35mm being the worst as it would never really allow the corners to come into focus.

The 14-24 was good past 20mm, and by 24mm excellent across the frame and 24mm on that is is somewhat wider than the 32mm Fuji. Still impresses me that Nikon made such a good lens and it's held up over the years. CA is there in the corners, but LR and other converters handle it. The amazing thing was how well the lower corners held up, just beautiful, however the normal rectilinear distortion is present.

Sadly the 70-200 @ 200mm was just not able to work. Even at 200mm there is considerable corner vignetting, again surprised me. But focus across the frame was not good either. I actually retested the lens on my D810 as I though the lens may have been damaged, but no on the D810 it was fine.

So for now not going to push on with other Nikon tele zooms, 200-400 defeats the need as I am looking for a carrying solution and that lens is not one.

Still considering the old Mamiya 210N lens, but never having used it not sure how well it will hold up. They are cheap on ebay however. Sadly my cracker jack sharp 210 AF Mamiya won't work due to the lack of an aperture ring and no adapter that will effectively control it.

All of these are a 4:3 crop. Standard view.

Paul Caldwell
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 01:07:04 pm by Paul2660 »
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2017, 12:13:16 pm »

Spent a lot of time this morning working with various Nikon glass on the GFX, results were less than stellar. I will say that manual focus with the LCD is not a problem for me and with peaking turned on excellent. All testing was done with the Fotodiox adapter. I will put up some crops on my site over the weekend.

Tried both the 20mm, 24mm and 35mm Art lenses, all were great on center, but the corners were just bad, just plain bad, which really surprised me. The 35mm being the worst as it would never really allow the corners to come into focus.

The 14-24 was good past 20mm, and by 24mm excellent across the frame and 24mm on that is is somewhat wider than the 32mm Fuji. Still impresses me that Nikon made such a good lens and it's held up over the years. CA is there in the corners, but LR and other converters handle it. The amazing thing was how well the lower corners held up, just beautiful, however the normal rectilinear distortion is present.

Sadly the 70-200 @ 200mm was just not able to work. Even at 200mm there is considerable corner vignetting, again surprised me. But focus across the frame was not good either. I actually retested the lens on my D810 as I though the lens may have been damaged, but no on the D810 it was fine.

So for now not going to push on with other Nikon tele zooms, 200-400 defeats the need as I am looking for a carrying solution and that lens is not one.

Still considering the old Mamiya 210N lens, but never having used it not sure how well it will hold up. They are cheap on ebay however. Sadly my cracker jack sharp 210 AF Mamiya won't work due to the lack of an aperture ring and no adapter that will effectively control it.

Paul Caldwell

Thanks, Paul, you've saved me some work. I can report on some other F-mount glass:

Otus 85: covers 1:1 crop with no material vignetting and sharp corners. Covers 4:5 crop with sime -- entirely correctable -- vignetting. 4:3 crop has too much vignetting for me.

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/otus-5-on-gfx-otus-55-on-a7rii-square-images/

Otus 55: first tests look good at 1:1 and 4:5 crops. Need to do same more work.

Zeiss 135/2 Apo: first tests look good at 1:1 and 4:5 crops. Need to do same more work.

Nikon 16mm fisheye: unacceptable field restriction because of built-in lens shade.

Jim

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2017, 01:08:58 pm »

Has anyone tried or know of any tests on the web with the GFX and Leica M lenses?
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2017, 03:10:25 pm »

Has anyone tried or know of any tests on the web with the GFX and Leica M lenses?

I have an adapter on order, and will do some tests when it arrives. I am expecting CFA crosstalk issues at the corners with the shorter lenses.

Jim

Don Libby

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2017, 04:00:29 pm »

My GFX and 32-64 arrived minutes ago.  Need to charge battery then will kick the tires.  So far I like the way it fits in my hands.

Very happy

fotagf8

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Re: Fuji GFX 50s: One First Impression
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2017, 04:16:58 pm »

Has anyone tried or know of any tests on the web with the GFX and Leica M lenses?

I read somewhere that Leica M lenses will not work well with the GFX, which would not surprise me given their size, but I have no personal experience.
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