Long Road Down – The Making of a Fine Art Photogra

[alainbriot]

I received an interesting email yesterday, fully related to this thread, and I posted an Open Answer on the home page of my website.  I strongly recommend you read it, as I think you will find it enlightening. My students love it:

www.beautiful-landscape.com

Scroll down to the news for July 29th.

[Mark D Segal]

Alain, how patient and diplomatic of you to respond that way. A lesser mortal  would have been tempted to suggest that the questioner doesn't have a clue.............

Anyhow, well done.

[alainbriot]

Alain, how patient and diplomatic of you to respond that way. A lesser mortal  would have been tempted to suggest that the questioner doesn't have a clue.............

Anyhow, well done.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72069\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,

Thank you.  I just placed the Open Answer to the top of the homepage so that it is the first thing visitors see.  Haven't heard back from John Smith yet... I wonder why ;-)

ALain

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Alain,

I love it!

With regard to Point 1: I did in fact use an 8x10 for a few years long ago, and I still have one or maybe two negatives from it that I am reasonably happy with. If I still had the beast, I would now post a notice prominently on the side of it saying "This box gives me a license to charge more than Alain Briot for my prints."    

Hmm. Would an 11x14 entitle me to charge more than Pete?  

Of course, if John Smith actually has a sense of humor, he really ought to send you a truckload of Roosters!

Eric

[alainbriot]

Alain,
I love it!
With regard to Point 1: I did in fact use an 8x10 for a few years long ago, and I still have one or maybe two negatives from it that I am reasonably happy with. If I still had the beast, I would now post a notice prominently on the side of it saying "This box gives me a license to charge more than Alain Briot for my prints."     
Hmm. Would an 11x14 entitle me to charge more than Pete?   
Of course, if John Smith actually has a sense of humor, he really ought to send you a truckload of Roosters!
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Eric,

Thank you.  Yes, in Mr. Smith's book an 8x10 is the ticket to sky high prices. Apparently.  He hasn't responded yet, but if and when he does I'll make sure to keep you posted.  

And you are right too that keeping a sense of humour is important.  After all, I could just tell him off.  Instead, I take it with a grain of salt and make the best I can out of it.  

All the best to you and your work.

[Ray]

I haven't had the urge to contribute to this thread, till now, because it seems fairly obvious to me that we live in a world of protection of copyright and of processes on all levels. Anyone who thinks they might have an economic advantage by exercising copyright law and/or secrecy, will often take that advantage.

That Alain Briot chooses to make his processes and techniques freely available is a great credit to him and an inspiration to us all. As a global community, we could all benefit by the adoption of such practices, also in areas other than photography.

I also understand Jack Fleshers's position, which I would describe as the more commercially oriented position of protection of processes. Perhaps it's not a co-incidence that Jack's avatar is a picture of a predator.

The article itself was interesting in the sense that it portrayed the dedication to the production of a single image. This is truly the anithesis of a snapshot in every respect.

Do most of us need to know this, as Mark suggests? Maybe not. In a month's time, I hope to return to Angkor Wat to photograph the ruins in a different light, with pools of water lying on the fallen stones and green algae prolific.

[alainbriot]

Here is the direct link to my "Open Letter" which I have now made into an essay:

Open Letter to John Smith

I will be publishing "Open letters" versions from my students and other photographers soon.

Ray, I like what you wrote.  You are extremely perspicuous.  The statements you made in your last entry are right on.  The world is changing, and certain attitudes are going out fast.  The whole field of communications and human interaction has been revolutionized by the internet, which provides immense power to people who previously were pretty much voiceless. Again, I appreciate your comments very much.

[pobrien3]

That Alain Briot chooses to make his processes and techniques freely available is a great credit to him and an inspiration to us all. As a global community, we could all benefit by the adoption of such practices, also in areas other than photography.

I also understand Jack Fleshers's position, which I would describe as the more commercially oriented position of protection of processes.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72102\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is no great secret to know what sort of marble Michaelangelo used, or what paint Leonardo favoured, or what the particular brush stroke technique was employed by Renoir.  Pete has the right to disclose or otherwise, but I think it shouldn't make one jot of difference to the value of his work.  It is the application of all components from the inital inspiration and vision to selecting the circumstances for the shot, through post production and to the final print and mounting that make up the end product.  Just because we know the techniques doesn't mean we can recreate his art.

[Ray]

It is no great secret to know what sort of marble Michaelangelo used, or what paint Leonardo favoured, or what the particular brush stroke technique was employed by Renoir.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72105\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What are secrets and what are not is something that is often only revealed over time after a great deal of analysis. It is now known, for example, that the extent of the use of mirrors and lenses in the production of Renaiance paintings was far more wide-spread than was previously understood.

From my readings, I get the impression that many Renaisance painters did not document this use of mirrors, perhaps in order to create the impression that their brush technique, sense of perspective, and sheer physical skill in wielding a paint brush, was more extraordinary than it really was. Many of the paintings of Carravagio, for example, reveal an unusual number of left-handed people.

[pobrien3]

I guess then as now artists were looking for something that set them apart from the herd, in order to give them that market differentiator.  This is what Pete Myers, Mark Tucker and Brian Beaney and others are doing.  If they want to keep their technique to themselves, that's their privelege.

I personally don't like to have too many mirrors around - might catch myself in one  

[Jonathan Wienke]

Mirrors don't bother me; I don't show up in them anyway...

[Blind Photographer]

Here is the direct link to my "Open Letter" which I have now made into an essay:

Open Letter to John Smith

I will be publishing "Open letters" versions from my students and other photographers soon.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72103\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Alain,

  I appreciate the insight in much of the response that you wrote to JS.  I know I would not have much fun answering questions like that     .  On the otherhand much of what you wrote also sounded very very defensive (that's the mildest way I can put it).  As a well known professional, I really would have expected a more professional answer, regardless of whether the "buyer" sounded legit or not.  The very last section regarding the payment method is downright childish IMO, and I am surprised how proud of it you are that you would post in on your site and publicly announce on the forums.  I deeply hope you are not encouraging others to act in this manner.  In the case that such a reply was made to a legitimate buyer I would image it to be quite an embarrassment, considering that you are not known as the "bad ass" type of artist and instead are also talking about high standards.  I wonder how Micheal Reichmann feels about a regular column writer who portrays himself in such high standards exibiting such behavior.  Whether it matters to your or not, personally, I know I am not going to ready anymore of your articles after this.  And I'm sure I'm not the only person out there who feels this way.

  I am also quite surprised that no person has so far voiced any kind of objection to this.  Perhaps it is because you are well known and no one wishes to challenge what you say.  A person in your position will have many followers that will back you regardless of the situation and no individual likes to go up against an "army".  No doubt there will be people who have a problem with what I have written.  Well, all I can hope for is that those who respond look at the situation without bias.  I am quite aware that I am in the underdog, the "who the hell is this guy" position here.  Alain, I hope your response is, well, unlike the one to john.

[Mark D Segal]

"Blind Photographer" - get a life!

Alain - how many Euros to a Rooster?

Cheers,

Mark

PS. When one tries to educate morons one runs the risk of being perceived as defensive, but I found your answers very straightforward and I appreciate that you published them, because I am sure there are many people who, while being less offesnive and in-your-face about it, simply don't understand the valuation of art; you have provided much valuable insight into this generic question.

[Blind Photographer]

"Blind Photographer" - get a life!

Alain - how many Euros to a Rooster?

Cheers,

Mark

PS. When one tries to educate morons one runs the risk of being perceived as defensive, but I found your answers very straightforward and I appreciate that you published them, because I am sure there are many people who, while being less offesnive and in-your-face about it, simply don't understand the valuation of art; you have provided much valuable insight into this generic question.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72127\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Very Classy and Unbiased there.  Funny how when one calls others morons it shows their own inability to come up with something worth reading.  Micheal R., these guys write for and represent  your site?

Please, if anyone has got something to say, is an adult, and wishes to be respected then act like an adult and act in a respectible manner.  Worthless, disgusting responses from here on will be treated as such and ignored by me.

[Blind Photographer]

Double post

[Mark D Segal]

Blind Photographer: (1) that comment wasn't directed at you, and (2) sometimes much as it may not be too polished by definition - and even classless, the unvarnished truth needs to be told. I take my hat off to Alain - he has more patience and perseverance to put up with such nonsense than many other people do, and it shouldn't be misunderstood.

[Jonathan Wienke]

What Alain writes on his site is his business, and as long as he is willing to endure the consequences (whatever they may be), I have no problem witrh him writing whatever he likes, as he sees fit. I thought Alain's piece was well-written and surprisingly polite, given the rather insulting way the question was phrased. I would have simply told "John Smith" to go piss up a rope, but no one has ever accused me of being excessively diplomatic.

[Blind Photographer]

Blind Photographer: (1) that comment wasn't directed at you, and (2) sometimes much as it may not be too polished by definition - and even classless, the unvarnished truth needs to be told. I take my hat off to Alain - he has more patience and perseverance to put up with such nonsense than many other people do, and it shouldn't be misunderstood.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72132\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm sure he has put up with more crap than most of us can handle before blowing up.  But it clearly wasn't shown in that open answer to john and I'm not sure why it is being shown off publicly.  Certainly not a good example from someone that many people look up to and follow.  Again, I did say that I appreciated his insight that he has shared with us in his response, but that and the part that strikes me as disturbing I am addressing seperately.

[Blind Photographer]

What Alain writes on his site is his business, and as long as he is willing to endure the consequences (whatever they may be), I have no problem witrh him whiting whatever he likes, as he sees fit. I thought Alain's piece was well-written and surprisingly polite, given the rather insulting way the question was phrased. I would have simply told "John Smith" to go piss up a rope, but no one has ever accused me of being excessively diplomatic.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

True, he can write whatever he wants to on his site but he's linking it to this forum.  As anyone here on the forums can be openly challenged I do not see a special case as to why I shouldn't voice a disagreement.  And hey, I understand that you can tell others off if you choose, as you have said you are known to be that way.  That's you and you don't hide it.  On the otherhand, Alain has always maintained that his standards of well, being Alain are quite high, yet the open response seems to really clash with that.

[Jonathan Wienke]

How so? Alain has written many articles about photography as an art form, a business, and his techniques, but I don't recall him ever stating that it was "beneath him" to respond point-by-point to silly criticisms. He may not have done so in writing before, but that doesn't mean he's violating consistency with anything he's written previously.