Dropping My X1D Order, Affirming My GFX Order

[Bo_Dez]

I agree that it doesn't feel like a camera. Thankfully. It handles better than any camera I have ever used. Everything else feels and handles like a brick by comparison. And BTW, EVERY camera is a recording device. That's its function. So, I am not sure what you mean.

Like I said it's probably ahead of its time. Personally I will be happy with a Hasselblad V and a Leica M6.

Every camera is a recording device but some are more, but it's maybe more to do with lenses. If you don't know what that means then it doesn't matter. 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

OVF means mostly SLR technique and that means a shutter release lag. With OVF the shutter release lag can be very short, say 20 ms, but the viewfinder image may also have a significant lag.

The odds may be that you won't shoot birds in flight or fast, unpredictable action like say ice hockey with an MF DSLR.

One thing I have sort of noticed that folks who use EVF regularly sort of prefer it. It can be set up as What You See is What You Get. For me personally the magnified live is the essential parameter. OVF has some problems in bright conditions, but a good rubber eyecup helps a lot and I prefer to work with an eyecup on DSLRs, too. In the dark an OVF can be magnificent.

EVFs can drop the mirror box and can therefore offer a short flange distance, that makes the camera compatible with view cameras like the Cambo Actus or in my case the pocket size tilt and shift adapter called HCam Master TS II.

This is not saying that EVF is preferable to OVF, but EVF is an enabling technology in many senses.

Best regards
Erik

This should be the case on all digital touch screens now.  Apple still owns the patent on using you fingers in a pinching movement to zoom in and out. 

Insofar as my gripes about the system, I have the same two I have with all mirrorless cameras, the EVF lag and its poor performance in high contrast or low light situations.  This is a camera made for handheld use, and to have a lag in the view finder is unacceptable.  High contrast scenes make highlights and shadows in the VF too bright and too dark with little mid tones, and possibly way too much noise in lower light situations. 

I will continue with my OVFs for now, although I would love the lower weight.   

[Paul2660]

Hi Eric

Don't you mean EVF's drop the mirror box?  This allows the shorter flange distance?

Paul Caldwell

[hubell]

Like I said it's probably ahead of its time. Personally I will be happy with a Hasselblad V and a Leica M6.

Every camera is a recording device but some are more, but it's maybe more to do with lenses. If you don't know what that means then it doesn't matter. 

All cameras are recording devices. You may prefer the way one camera "records" ("creamy" and "dreamy" bokeh) to the way another records ("clinical"), but they are still recording devices. All painters feel that way. Many photographers want to believe it is otherwise.

[NickT]

I think this is a great thread. I have decided not to buy several cameras this year.

I've also decided not to by some strobe gear and a car.

I'm going out to dinner tonight but I've decided not to buy the fish because it just isn't meaty enough and doesn't really suit my meal needs.

[Bo_Dez]

I think this is a great thread. I have decided not to buy several cameras this year.

I've also decided not to by some strobe gear and a car.

I'm going out to dinner tonight but I've decided not to buy the fish because it just isn't meaty enough and doesn't really suit my meal needs.

So you'd rather discuss why people shouldn't discuss cameras on a camera discussion board?

[jamgolf]

I think this is a great thread. I have decided not to buy several cameras this year.

I've also decided not to by some strobe gear and a car.

I'm going out to dinner tonight but I've decided not to buy the fish because it just isn't meaty enough and doesn't really suit my meal needs.

I don't know if its a great thread or not but it is as useful as a thread titled "Keeping My X1D Order" or "I just placed an X1D order".
OP is providing his reasoning and thought process, for canceling his order. Some might find that useful.

[Stephen Scharf]

I could go on and on, and I have been following all of this for seven months. I have learned more from Lloyd Chamber’s new MF section than anywhere else. He actually has an X1D and is putting it through its paces. I need all of the chapters and verse and it is worth the subscription price.

I've been reading Lloyd Chamber's reviewing of the X1D with interest as well. Image quality is outstanding on the whole, but he describes issues with various aspects of using the camera, e.g. the lack of a 4-way controller (or joystick, as you mention, Michael) as notable hassles for him. One of the ones that surprised me the most was is that, apparently, you can't view an image in Playback mode through the EVF. This is a feature that is really nice on EVFs that allows you review an image for critical focus, especially when zooming in and scrolling through the image. He also mentions exposure variation at different apertures and observations using fill flash. Perhaps some of these can be addressed with firmware upgrades.

Well worth a subscription, IMHO, for reading, and for reference comparing to other MF camera systems.

[eronald]

Finally some progress and new MF gear and already people are complaining.

It must be the low price.

Edmund

I've been reading Lloyd Chamber's reviewing of the X1D with interest as well. Image quality is outstanding on the whole, but he describes issues with various aspects of using the camera, e.g. the lack of a 4-way controller (or joystick, as you mention, Michael) as notable hassles for him. One of the ones that surprised me the most was is that, apparently, you can't view an image in Playback mode through the EVF. This is a feature that is really nice on EVFs that allows you review an image for critical focus, especially when zooming in and scrolling through the image. He also mentions exposure variation at different apertures and observations using fill flash. Perhaps some of these can be addressed with firmware upgrades.

Well worth a subscription, IMHO, for reading, and for reference comparing to other MF camera systems.

[Stephen Scharf]

Finally some progress and new MF gear and already people are complaining.

It must be the low price.

Edmund

Lloyd loves the image quality, micro-contrast, dynamic range and color from what he's written, and the lenses. He does have some issues with how he needs to work effectively with the camera; his needs are as valid as anyone else's.

[eronald]

Lloyd loves the image quality, micro-contrast, dynamic range and color from what he's written, and the lenses. He does have some issues with how he needs to work effectively with the camera; his needs are as valid as anyone else's.

I'm not criticizing Lloyd, just it's obvious that the H and M have 20 years of bugfixes, so the newcomers should be allowed a couple of firmware upgrades to fix their minor ergonomic issues.

I got a Fuji X100, stored it because it was hopeless to use without thinking, 6 years later with two firmware upgrades it's the camera which Leica should be making.

Edmund

[ErikKaffehr]

Thanks Paul!

Erik

Hi Eric

Don't you mean EVF's drop the mirror box?  This allows the shorter flange distance?

Paul Caldwell

[hubell]

Lloyd loves the image quality, micro-contrast, dynamic range and color from what he's written, and the lenses. He does have some issues with how he needs to work effectively with the camera; his needs are as valid as anyone else's.

I agree with Lloyd that the image quality from the X1D files is exceptional. I have no problem accepting that he has issues with the X1D not matching his needs as to the way he likes to work. However, I have not had any difficulties working the way I like to work shooting what I like to shoot. I frequently like to shoot multiple files at different focus points to blend together in Helicon Focus. I will move around the focus points to where I want to focus and then use back button AF to focus in those spots. Is it as easy as it would be with a joystick? No, but it was still pretty quick and easy.

[Stephen Scharf]

I agree with Lloyd that the image quality from the X1D files is exceptional. I have no problem accepting that he has issues with the X1D not matching his needs as to the way he likes to work. However, I have not had any difficulties working the way I like to work shooting what I like to shoot. I frequently like to shoot multiple files at different focus points to blend together in Helicon Focus. I will move around the focus points to where I want to focus and then use back button AF to focus in those spots. Is it as easy as it would be with a joystick? No, but it was still pretty quick and easy.

That is good to hear it is working for so well for you. If look at Lloyd's photo of a rushing stream taken with a 5 minute exposure in near darkness, the image quality and results are quite impressive. I saw your thread and photos about how compact the system is with three lenses in your backpack. Very nicely compact. Looks like it will be very easy to use in the field and transport around, which is always a good thing. Personally, I think it's great we have such nice entries in the MF market that are mirror-less.

[Stephen Scharf]

I'm not criticizing Lloyd, just it's obvious that the H and M have 20 years of bugfixes, so the newcomers should be allowed a couple of firmware upgrades to fix their minor ergonomic issues.

I got a Fuji X100, stored it because it was hopeless to use without thinking, 6 years later with two firmware upgrades it's the camera which Leica should be making.

Edmund

Agreed. Let's hope that they can address these. Hubell had some great recommendations in the Hasselblad Digital Forum. 

[Stephen Scharf]

Lloyd has been putting up more data in his initial review. His image of a oak tree showing the dynamic range capability of the X1D is...impressive, to say the least.

[Osprey]

.One thing I have sort of noticed that folks who use EVF regularly sort of prefer it. It can be set up as What You See is What You Get.

Horrible for halfway challenging flash work though.  Have to go into settings and turn it off unless you enjoy viewing your subject as a silhouette while you take pictures.   

[Bo_Dez]

All cameras are recording devices. You may prefer the way one camera "records" ("creamy" and "dreamy" bokeh) to the way another records ("clinical"), but they are still recording devices. All painters feel that way. Many photographers want to believe it is otherwise.

If a camera simply records what the eye sees, then it's a recording device.

If a camera has certain characteristics that can be appropriated to creative endeavour then it becomes something more.

[Michael Erlewine]

The X1D is beautiful to look at (and probably hold), but like the Pentax K1 (which I returned), it is not ready IMO for the kind of work I do. I hope the Fuji GFX will be more like what I need. Otherwise, I look to the NIkon D820 for the immediate future.

P.S. I also returned the Sony A7r and A7rII for similar reasons. Just color me particular.

[voidshatter]

That is good to hear it is working for so well for you. If look at Lloyd's photo of a rushing stream taken with a 5 minute exposure in near darkness, the image quality and results are quite impressive. I saw your thread and photos about how compact the system is with three lenses in your backpack. Very nicely compact. Looks like it will be very easy to use in the field and transport around, which is always a good thing. Personally, I think it's great we have such nice entries in the MF market that are mirror-less.

Lloyd says the long exposure is better than D810's, which is hard to believe, and if true, better than excellent!