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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6060 on: September 09, 2017, 08:17:46 pm »

... anti-foreigner emotion?...

It is not anti-foreigner, it is anti-illegal. I am a foreigner, I have an accent...never felt anti-foreigner anything.

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... And by selective prosecution... the authorities probably ignore some criminals to give priority to others all the time...

What you are missing in your examples (hookers, bikers, etc.) is that you can't just round them up and arrest them. You have to charge them with something and then you'd have to prove their guilt in court. If you don't have enough evidence, you don't want to waste everybody's time. Contrast that with illegals. The guilt is there from day one.

scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6061 on: September 09, 2017, 08:19:13 pm »

Not just cruel, but bad for your country too. You round up a bunch of valuable assets
if they are valuable assets then surely they can come back legally on working visas  ;D ... if they are very valuable they can come on working visas (of even F1 student visas like countless indians and chineese do) allowing application for permanent residency if not on some kind of bracero-visas not allowing anything ... simple adjustment to the law is to allow such illegal aliens (who were smuggled by parents, etc) to apply for legal re-entry... that's it... and if you can't make it legally then you are not a valuable asset at all, sorry
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texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6062 on: September 09, 2017, 10:56:22 pm »



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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6063 on: September 10, 2017, 01:03:23 am »

So Trump does business around the world.

And apparently tried really, REALLY hard to do a deal in Russia even after announcing his run for prez. Did he tell his supporters that? Nope...but he did, at several occasions claim he had nothing to do with Russia...

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Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!
7:31 AM - Jan 11, 2017

Well, that wasn't due to lack of trying now was it?

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Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy - yet Obama can make a deal with Iran, #1 in terror, no problem!
7:11 AM - Feb 7, 2017

Funny, at one point Trump claimed he and Putie had a great relationship...From Donald Trump gets a Full Flop for whether he's had a relationship to Vladimir Putin

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Here are four occasions between 2013 and 2015 when Trump touted his ties to Putin.

• When Thomas Roberts of MSNBC asked Trump, "Do you have a relationship with Vladimir Putin? A conversational relationship or anything that you feel you have sway or influence over his government?" Trump responded, "I do have a relationship, and I can tell you that he's very interested in what we're doing here today. He's probably very interested in what you and I am saying today, and I'm sure he's going to be seeing it in some form." -- interview, November, 2013

• "You know, I was in Moscow a couple of months ago. I own the Miss Universe Pageant and they treated me so great. Putin even sent me a present, a beautiful present." -- address at the CPAC conference, March 2014

• "Russia does not respect our country any longer. They see we've been greatly weakened, both militarily and otherwise, and he certainly does not respect President Obama. So what I would do—as an example, I own Miss Universe, I was in Russia, I was in Moscow recently and I spoke, indirectly and directly, with President Putin, who could not have been nicer, and we had a tremendous success. The show was live from Moscow, and we had tremendous success there and it was amazing, but to do well, you have to get the other side to respect you, and he does not respect our president, which is very sad." -- address at the National Press Club, May 2014

• "As far as the Ukraine is concerned … if Putin wants to go in -- and I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes. We were stablemates, and we did very well that night." -- portion of an answer at the Fox Business News debate, Nov. 2015. (The notion that the two men appeared together on 60 Minutes has been debunked. As Time magazine put it succinctly, "In fact, they weren’t even on the same continent.")

So, did he or didn't he have a relationship with Putie? Hum, don't know...depends on which "Donald" you talk to and when...but it sure seems like it wasn't due to lack of trying...

So, trying to do business in Russia and lying about it, claiming a relationship with Putin and lying about it then claiming he DOESN'T have any business with Russia and has no relationship with Putin, and lying about it.

And you are ok with that? You're ok with the fact that Trump REFUSES to say anything bad about Putin and Russia. Why? Is it because Putin and Russia has done nothing wrong or is it because Trump WANTS to do business in Russia and doesn't want to piss off Putin because he figures that would be the kiss of death to doing any biz over there.

I'm not so sure Trump supporters are really ok with Trump and Putie having a love affair ya know?

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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6064 on: September 10, 2017, 01:32:58 am »

And your point is...?

If you really want to "dramatically curtail" the future, you can not possibly reward the past with amnesty and benefits. Not only it rewards the past, but it stimulates and incentivizes the future.

The point is, Schumers 2009 speech was about working to bring about immigration reform. The DACA program is about dealing with existing children of undocumented immigrants who met certain eligibility requirements, registered and paid a fee. Once granted, they received a renewable two-year period of deferred action from deportation and eligibility for a work permit. What Schumer in the second video was talking about is the fact that these "Dreamers" did everything they were asked to do, paid their fees and lived productive and useful lives not a undocumented immigrants but as legal non-permanent residents. What Trump did was end the program throwing over 800 thousand people into a precarious position and denying other new eligible applicants.

So, my point was you offered a bogus Facebook post by a obviously partisan group showing videos taken out of context and trying to make a partisan claim that was phony on the surface.

Ending DACA does NOTHING to address the problems of undocumented immigrants–the many of which are NOT from Mexico and do NOT go across the boarder but in fact come by plane with legal visas that expire. Ending DACA does nothing to reduce the number of illegal immigrants being taken advantage of by unscrupulous businesses that exploit their undocumented status–heck even Trump did that by using undocumented workers from Poland to build his Trump Tower in NYC...but hey, that was then and now he's President (and the next big Trump Tower is likely to be built in Moscow).

So, Trump eliminated DACA and solved what? Legal immigration reform? No...Trump solved nothing except put a lot of peoples' lives in an uproar...

BYW Slobodan, how is it YOU are in this country? Are you a citizen? Did you or your parents come to America to reach for the American Dream?
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6065 on: September 10, 2017, 01:53:35 am »

Giant portrait of toddler peers over U.S.-Mexico border wall



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A photo of a giant toddler stands in Mexico and peers over a steel wall dividing the country from the United States.

The boy appears to grip the barrier with his fingers, leaving the impression the entire thing could be toppled with a giggle.

A French artist who goes by the moniker "JR" erected the cutout of the boy that stands nearly 65 feet tall and is meant to prompt discussion of immigration.

On Friday, a steady stream of people drove to the remote section of wall near the Tecate border crossing, about 40 miles southeast of San Diego. Border Patrol agents warned visitors to keep the dirt road clear for their patrols and not to pass anything through the fence.

I'm not sure this is what Trump meant when he said we have a big problem with Mexicans trying to get into the US :~)
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Brad P

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6066 on: September 10, 2017, 04:02:14 am »

What's your point? 

Odds are not determined by any real life data or facts, but the ratios of bets being placed and how much those bets are worth. 

PS, after looking at the odds, I have to ask, who is actually betting against Trump?  Although the odds (really overall opinions of those whom are betting; nothing to do with facts) strongly suggest he will not make it, the pay out is really damn low for those who bet against him.  One should just bet he will make it through to 2024 for the hell of it.  A $100 bet would net $10,000.

My point for now is that some of the world's largest betting sites have Trump staying in office, or resigning or being impeached during his first term at about even odds. 
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scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6067 on: September 10, 2017, 08:14:34 am »

Ending DACA does NOTHING to address the problems of undocumented immigrants

it does - it kills the backdoor amnesty of illegal aliens thus inviting further countless hordes of illegal aliens to infiltrate
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scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6068 on: September 10, 2017, 08:18:11 am »

put a lot of peoples' lives in an uproar...

not enough ... the next step is get the illegal aliens out of the country and it is high time to start prosecuting those who are aiding and abetting them
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kers

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6069 on: September 10, 2017, 12:51:13 pm »

it does - it kills the backdoor amnesty of illegal aliens thus inviting further countless hordes of illegal aliens to infiltrate

it does - it kills the backdoor amnesty of illegal     aliens    = all Americans except for the native indians.
thus
inviting further countless hordes of new illegal aliens to infiltrate do the dirty work for almost nothing
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Pieter Kers
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6070 on: September 10, 2017, 02:23:50 pm »

I mean, YOU came here legally.  Why the hell can't some 5 year old take the test and become a citizen the RIGHT way?...

... BTW Slobodan, how is it YOU are in this country? Are you a citizen? Did you or your parents come to America to reach for the American Dream?

James, unless I misunderstood your point, it seems that you are saying that becoming a citizen here is just a matter of passing the citizenship test?

It took me 12 years to become a citizen.

But first, a prequel:

Before coming here, I spent four years in Spain (Barcelona). During that time, we met several acquaintances that came as tourists and overstayed their visas, becoming illegals. In those four years, there were THREE rounds of amnesties for illegals. All our acquaintances became legal residents. I couldn't. Why? Because I was legally there and therefore couldn't apply. Do you have any idea how that makes a law-abiding citizen feel? That all those breaking the law were ultimately rewarded for it (three times), while I had to leave?

12 Years

It took me 12 years, though it might have taken 15-16. I was on a fast track because I already had an advance degree from an American university (a legal requirement).

Before coming here on an H1b visa, I had to wait in Spain one whole year for the process to take its course. That's one year of my life I'll never get back. Was I allowed to temporarily come to the States during that year, to perhaps get to know where I am going to work and live, where to buy a house, where my kid is going to go to school? No. In that year, the company that was hiring me had to take photos of their offices, showing people working in there, present a dozen of client contracts, tax returns, etc. Let's not mention the lawyer fees for all that time.

Then six years in the H1b status. During that time I was paid what the government said was a typical pay for an American worker doing the same type of job. So, no, it is not because I, as a foreigner, was willing to work for less than an American, the company was just following the rules set by the government.

During those six years, I couldn't travel out of the country (i.e., without obtaining a return authorization letter in advance from the authorities). I was the best man on my friend's wedding in Aruba (a Dutch territory), got that letter belatedly and missed the wedding. I couldn't even cross to the Canadian side of the Niagara Falls, which is said to be nicer than the dilapidated American one. If someone in my family got sick or died back home, I would not be able to visit them or attend their funeral, as those return-authorization letters take ages to obtain.

Drivers License: My then-wife was in an L1-visa status (family member). She was rear-ended in a car accident by another guy. Yet, we paid $275 fine plus lawyer's $200 fee. Why? Because, although in the country legally, she couldn't get a drivers license. I argued, in front of the judge, how is a stay-at-home mom, with a young child, going to live in a suburb, where the nearest supermarket, doctor, etc. is several miles away, without being able to drive a car? Judges answer: "I do not care. I follow the law." Had she been illegal, however... there would be a red-carpet welcome for her at the DMV.

College Tuition: my daughter (American citizen) considered an out-of-state college, where the tuition is usually double that for in-state students. Had she been an illegal, however, her tuition would equal the in-state one.

Do you see a pattern there and why law-abiding citizens are pissed off with Democrats showering privileges on illegals?

Then the green card, in the year five to six. As I said, I got it within a year, though it typically takes 4-5 years.

Then five years after the green card, one qualifies to apply for the citizenship.

So, do I think it is cruel to send Dreamers out and have them wait one year for re-entry (if they qualify)? No, I don't, as I did the same. I was already in the States (again, legally), getting a degree from the University of Chicago, but had to go back to Spain and wait a year to re-enter.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 02:27:14 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6071 on: September 10, 2017, 06:30:27 pm »

Seems like Jeff forgot to track Trump's approval ratings, so I have to step in:

Trump's Approval Rating Just Bounced Back From Worst In History for a President - Newsweek
https://apple.news/AnHFBRI83To2QJPhEjLInTQ

46% for the 45th 😊

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6072 on: September 10, 2017, 06:33:09 pm »

James, unless I misunderstood your point, it seems that you are saying that becoming a citizen here is just a matter of passing the citizenship test?

It took me 12 years to become a citizen.

But first, a prequel:

Before coming here, I spent four years in Spain (Barcelona). During that time, we met several acquaintances that came as tourists and overstayed their visas, becoming illegals. In those four years, there were THREE rounds of amnesties for illegals. All our acquaintances became legal residents. I couldn't. Why? Because I was legally there and therefore couldn't apply. Do you have any idea how that makes a law-abiding citizen feel? That all those breaking the law were ultimately rewarded for it (three times), while I had to leave?

12 Years

It took me 12 years, though it might have taken 15-16. I was on a fast track because I already had an advance degree from an American university (a legal requirement).

Before coming here on an H1b visa, I had to wait in Spain one whole year for the process to take its course. That's one year of my life I'll never get back. Was I allowed to temporarily come to the States during that year, to perhaps get to know where I am going to work and live, where to buy a house, where my kid is going to go to school? No. In that year, the company that was hiring me had to take photos of their offices, showing people working in there, present a dozen of client contracts, tax returns, etc. Let's not mention the lawyer fees for all that time.

Then six years in the H1b status. During that time I was paid what the government said was a typical pay for an American worker doing the same type of job. So, no, it is not because I, as a foreigner, was willing to work for less than an American, the company was just following the rules set by the government.

During those six years, I couldn't travel out of the country (i.e., without obtaining a return authorization letter in advance from the authorities). I was the best man on my friend's wedding in Aruba (a Dutch territory), got that letter belatedly and missed the wedding. I couldn't even cross to the Canadian side of the Niagara Falls, which is said to be nicer than the dilapidated American one. If someone in my family got sick or died back home, I would not be able to visit them or attend their funeral, as those return-authorization letters take ages to obtain.

Drivers License: My then-wife was in an L1-visa status (family member). She was rear-ended in a car accident by another guy. Yet, we paid $275 fine plus lawyer's $200 fee. Why? Because, although in the country legally, she couldn't get a drivers license. I argued, in front of the judge, how is a stay-at-home mom, with a young child, going to live in a suburb, where the nearest supermarket, doctor, etc. is several miles away, without being able to drive a car? Judges answer: "I do not care. I follow the law." Had she been illegal, however... there would be a red-carpet welcome for her at the DMV.

College Tuition: my daughter (American citizen) considered an out-of-state college, where the tuition is usually double that for in-state students. Had she been an illegal, however, her tuition would equal the in-state one.

Do you see a pattern there and why law-abiding citizens are pissed off with Democrats showering privileges on illegals?

Then the green card, in the year five to six. As I said, I got it within a year, though it typically takes 4-5 years.

Then five years after the green card, one qualifies to apply for the citizenship.

So, do I think it is cruel to send Dreamers out and have them wait one year for re-entry (if they qualify)? No, I don't, as I did the same. I was already in the States (again, legally), getting a degree from the University of Chicago, but had to go back to Spain and wait a year to re-enter.

This isn't personal, but so what?   A wise man once told me, "...then again, maybe I just believe that a nation is best governed by brains, not hearts."  These people are here, they're contributing, and staying out of trouble.  The specific people we're discussing here didn't even make the proactive choice to break the law.  They were brought here as minors. They're "illegal" only by statute, and are otherwise largely assimilated and "American" in education, culture and outlook.  Why should I care how it makes you feel, or if it's "fair" when you are unwilling to extend the same courtesy? 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6073 on: September 10, 2017, 06:36:57 pm »

Seems like Jeff forgot to track Trump's approval ratings, so I have to step in:

Trump's Approval Rating Just Bounced Back From Worst In History for a President - Newsweek
https://apple.news/AnHFBRI83To2QJPhEjLInTQ

46% for the 45th 😊

Interesting.  46% was his popular vote in the election.  This is going to upset Jeff.   

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6074 on: September 10, 2017, 06:41:15 pm »

Interesting.  46% was his popular vote in the election.  This is going to upset Jeff.   

I'm curious to see where that bump came from.  Telling the "Freedom" caucus to effectively "F-off" was a positive move, even if I'm pretty sure it's merely transactional.  And, believe it or not, I think his action to force Congress to deal with DACA (despite my feelings on the program itself) is probably the correct Constitutional move.   Take those things, and a conspicuous lack of Twitter idiocy and I'm not surprised to see a bounce.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6075 on: September 10, 2017, 06:49:35 pm »

I'm curious to see where that bump came from.  Telling the "Freedom" caucus to effectively "F-off" was a positive move, even if I'm pretty sure it's merely transactional.  And, believe it or not, I think his action to force Congress to deal with DACA (despite my feelings on the program itself) is probably the correct Constitutional move.   Take those things, and a conspicuous lack of Twitter idiocy and I'm not surprised to see a bounce.

  I think Republicans are more afraid of him now because of the popularity bump and because he made a deal with Democrats Pelosi and Schumer.  All the talk about impeachment is just that, talk.  If you're a Republican up for re-election, you don't want to get on his bad side or he'll come after you.  After the failure of the  "repeal" of Obamacare, Trump now understand that Republicans are not going to be able to anything on their own.  He's going to cross the aisle and make deals with Democrats so legislation will not be frozen as it has for years.  All the complaints on both sides about Congress not being able to do anything will end as the "dealmaker" makes deals.  He doesn't care about the Republican establishment but doing things.  Those who stand in his way will be thrown under the bus. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6076 on: September 10, 2017, 06:55:28 pm »

... Why should I care how it makes you feel...

Maybe you shouldn't care how it makes me feel. Then again, enough people like me are saying "enough is enough" and elected a guy who promised to take care of it. Maybe that's why you should care?

On the other hand, I provided several "brainy" reasons, in addition to feelings, that you seem to ignore: undermining rule of law, awarding law breakers, incentivizing future law breaking, etc. One of the direct consequences of DACA and the overall favoritism toward illegals is the surge in unaccompanied minors crossing the border. Because, you know, "kids can not be responsible for the sins of their fathers."

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6077 on: September 10, 2017, 07:00:18 pm »

...  These people are here, they're contributing, and staying out of trouble...

I was here, I was contributing, I was staying out of trouble. And yet, I had to leave and wait one year to come back.

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6078 on: September 10, 2017, 07:53:22 pm »

I was here, I was contributing, I was staying out of trouble. And yet, I had to leave and wait one year to come back.

Good for you.  If Donald Trump decides you should be deported because it's politically expedient to deport guys from the Balkans I'll advocate against that too. 
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texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6079 on: September 10, 2017, 08:00:38 pm »

I was here, I was contributing, I was staying out of trouble. And yet, I had to leave and wait one year to come back.

Had your parents not cursed you with pale skin and had you moved to a sanctuary city, you could be $200,000 richer.

https://www.spartareport.com/2017/06/illegal-alien-wins-san-francisco-police-handed-ice/


« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 08:48:32 pm by texshooter »
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