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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918357 times)

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6040 on: September 09, 2017, 12:37:18 am »

https://www.facebook.com/TheTrumpRepublicans/videos/517166461961682/

Nice...course that's a cherry picked set of excerpts that don't provide any context and explanation why Schumer in the 2009 video (the one on the left) was saying what he said...

He was talking about what he though were the 7 principles of concept of comprehensive immigration reform. You can see the complete Shumer address HERE and the first principle he stated was: “First, illegal immigration is wrong,and a primary goal of comprehensive immigration reform must be to dramatically curtail future illegal immigration.

You see, Schumer wasn't talking about DACA...he was talking about how to work towards comprehensive immigration reform. So, watch the full video and compare it to the recent statement on Trump's killing DACA and I think you'll see there really isn't a contradiction there, just nicely inflammatory video editing that The Trump Republicans found useful to muddy the water and create FUD...(totally useless FB page BTW)

Heck, even the Daily Caller provided a link for the full statement from 2009. Chuck Schumer In 2009: ‘Illegal Immigration Is Wrong’ [VIDEO] and illegal immigration is, well, illegal and should be curtailed to the extent that is reasonable with the understanding that the best way to deal with it is to work towards comprehensive immigration reform must be to dramatically curtail future illegal immigration. which is what Schumer said...
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6041 on: September 09, 2017, 12:55:43 am »

So, let me get this straight...even AFTER Trump announced his presidential campaign, Trump was still trying to do a deal in Russia...conflict of interest anybody?

Document details scrapped deal for Trump Tower Moscow



Quote
Washington (CNN)Around the time presidential candidate Donald Trump was touting his real estate dealings at a Republican primary debate, a proposal was in the works to build a Trump Tower in Russia that would have given his company a $4 million upfront fee, no upfront costs, a percentage of the sales, and control over marketing and design. And that's not all: the deal included the opportunity to name the hotel spa after his daughter Ivanka.

An internal Trump Organization document from October 2015, obtained by CNN on Thursday, reveals the details of a 17-page letter of intent that set the stage for Trump's attorney to negotiate a promising branding venture for Trump condominiums, a hotel and commercial property in the heart of Moscow. Trump signed the document later that month, according to Michael Cohen, his corporate attorney at the time. The document CNN obtained does not have Trump's signature because it is a copy of the deal that Cohen brought to Trump to sign.

Cohen pulled out of the arrangement three months later as the project failed to get off the ground.

Trump did not mention during the presidential campaign that his company explored the business deal in Russia. Instead, he insisted that he had "nothing to do with Russia." Even when talking about his past dealings with Russians -- like the Miss Universe pageant he held in Moscow in 2013 -- Trump never referred to the prospective licensing deal that fell through a few weeks before the Iowa caucuses.

So, it's not like Trump wasn't TRYING to do biz in Russia, it's just he wasn't successful. Funny that TrumpTowerMoscow.com was just updated on 6-28-2017 and is owned by Trump...

Trump Organization renews rights to TrumpTowerMoscow.com

Quote
Domain Name: TRUMPTOWERMOSCOW.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1508992055_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Updated Date: 2017-06-28T20:25:39Z
Creation Date: 2008-07-17T20:24:44Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2018-07-01T03:59:59Z
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID: Not Available From Registry
Registrant Name: General Counsel
Registrant Organization: The Trump Organization
Registrant Street: 725 Fifth Avenue
Registrant City: New York
Registrant State/Province: New York
Registrant Postal Code: 10022
Registrant Country: US

So, it's not like Trump has completely given up on the thought. (go daddy.com? Well, of course, Trump is cheap)
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6042 on: September 09, 2017, 01:40:59 am »

...“First, illegal immigration is wrong,and a primary goal of comprehensive immigration reform must be to dramatically curtail future illegal immigration.”..

And your point is...?

If you really want to "dramatically curtail" the future, you can not possibly reward the past with amnesty and benefits. Not only it rewards the past, but it stimulates and incentivizes the future.

By the way, DACA is about illegal immigration, so you can't be simultaneously against illegal immigration and for DACA... unless you are a politician, of course.

Besides, what's the big deal? They can't go back where they came from? No problem. Canada, Holland, Norway, Denmark, and other bleeding heart liberals can't wait to get them. Right, Canada? Right??? Coming with American education, speaking perfect English (plus), with American accent (minus), with a great experience how to play and beat the American system. Who wouldn't want them?

texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6043 on: September 09, 2017, 03:11:08 am »


Since illegals are so beneficial to our economy, I'm sure Democrats wouldn't mind picking up the tab.

http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer

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Brad P

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6044 on: September 09, 2017, 03:51:00 am »

Real money betting odds nowadays are about even that Trump will be out of office during his first term, sides regardless. See here and here.

Sorry if the links don't last, but they are working as I post. Ladbrokes and Paddy Power.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 04:11:57 am by Brad P »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6045 on: September 09, 2017, 06:32:01 am »

Besides, what's the big deal? They can't go back where they came from? No problem. Canada, Holland, Norway, Denmark, and other bleeding heart liberals can't wait to get them. Right, Canada? Right??? Coming with American education, speaking perfect English (plus), with American accent (minus), with a great experience how to play and beat the American system. Who wouldn't want them?

The exodus has already begun.  200 people a day are crossing the border just at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle, Que.

Quote
On the American side, New York state taxis have built a booming cottage industry taking people to Roxham Road. There's always another wave to deliver. And the next one is never far behind.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/asylum-seekers-quebec-roxham-1.4232608

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6046 on: September 09, 2017, 06:48:38 am »

Since illegals are so beneficial to our economy, I'm sure Democrats wouldn't mind picking up the tab.

http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer

The Heritage Foundation's mission statement:
The mission of The Heritage Foundation is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.

Okay, so there might be some conservative bias in their reporting.

Now, how does this (chart 12) compare to the Lifetime cost of Lawful citizens? Lower, equal, higher?

According to the article:
Quote
in 2010, in the U.S. population as a whole, households headed by persons without a high school degree, on average, received $46,582 in government benefits while paying only $11,469 in taxes. This generated an average fiscal deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of $35,113.

How much is that for Lifetime cost?

Quote
In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes. This generated an average annual fiscal deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of around $14,387 per household.

So that's a deficit that's less than half ...

And when these "Dreamers" received the same level of education as other American youngsters, they may, unlike their parents, even contibute more to society than other unlawful immigrant households with poor or incompatible education.

Cheers,
Bart
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6047 on: September 09, 2017, 08:28:25 am »

What I find interesting about the DACA debate, not that I know much about it other than what I read here and elsewhere, is that it seems like a manufactured issue of the week to me. Trump needs to keeps his base on an emotional high, lest they stop and analyze things too closely, so let's chase after a few foreigners. It must help things if they're not white too.

Of course a rational legal immigration policy is required, you can't just let people walk in at their leisure, but after they've been in for a while and are integrated and are working and contributing to the economy, how is anyone better off by wasting resources chasing them down? It's not as if there isn't precedent for selective prosecution. The authorities don't chase after and arrest EVERY prostitute or drug dealer, and they certainly don't spend much time chasing after biker gangs and the mob, from what I can tell. If Trump and others stopped foaming at the mouth about this, the entire issue would disappear in 2 news cycles because, really, it does not matter to anyone, in the sense that its importance rounds to zero. The emotional support for it is manufactured. It's got "fake" written all over it.

It's not like the US doesn't have bigger more important problems to address. But those things require work, and it's easier to whip up a frenzy about other things. For instance, how does reducing taxes square with rebuilding a crumbling infrastructure. I don't see many frenzied battles about that. Trump must be following KISS thinking. Priority one is keeping the base energized for the 2020 vote, I guess, as re-election seems to be what politics is all about now.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6048 on: September 09, 2017, 09:20:43 am »

Trump's base on an "emotional high"!? The whole DACA approach is based on emotions in the first place. You know, on the sympathy for their situation and that it is "cruel" do uphold the rule of law.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6049 on: September 09, 2017, 09:27:51 am »

...So that's a deficit that's less than half ...

Except you are conveniently comparing apples and oranges, i.e., a no-high school household with an average one. Never mind that citizens vs. illegals shouldn't be compared in the first place.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6050 on: September 09, 2017, 09:46:24 am »

Real money betting odds nowadays are about even that Trump will be out of office during his first term, sides regardless. See here and here.

Sorry if the links don't last, but they are working as I post. Ladbrokes and Paddy Power.

What's your point? 

Odds are not determined by any real life data or facts, but the ratios of bets being placed and how much those bets are worth. 

PS, after looking at the odds, I have to ask, who is actually betting against Trump?  Although the odds (really overall opinions of those whom are betting; nothing to do with facts) strongly suggest he will not make it, the pay out is really damn low for those who bet against him.  One should just bet he will make it through to 2024 for the hell of it.  A $100 bet would net $10,000. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 10:03:10 am by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6051 on: September 09, 2017, 09:50:29 am »


Of course a rational legal immigration policy is required, you can't just let people walk in at their leisure, but after they've been in for a while and are integrated and are working and contributing to the economy, how is anyone better off by wasting resources chasing them down? It's not as if there isn't precedent for selective prosecution. The authorities don't chase after and arrest EVERY prostitute or drug dealer, and they certainly don't spend much time chasing after biker gangs and the mob, from what I can tell. If Trump and others stopped foaming at the mouth about this, the entire issue would disappear in 2 news cycles because, really, it does not matter to anyone, in the sense that its importance rounds to zero. The emotional support for it is manufactured. It's got "fake" written all over it.


What ???

There are numerous law agencies that do just that, spend their time chasing biker gangs, the mob (well the mob was really destroyed in the late 90s), organized crime, pimps, etc.  There are just so many that they out number the police, but I am sure the goal is to get all of them. 

I am not even sure how someone could believe this statement. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 09:53:57 am by JoeKitchen »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6052 on: September 09, 2017, 10:02:48 am »

Quote
And to take your analogy one step further, should we, just like with DACA, give amnesty to all organized crime figures, drug dealers and pimps?

Sure.

After all they contribute to the economy. There is no "fiscal deficit," only surplus. They are not on benefits, they pay taxes (at least the sales tax on all those gold chains, fancy cars and mansions) and invest in legitimate businesses (after laundering the illegitimate proceeds).

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6053 on: September 09, 2017, 12:10:39 pm »

So, let me get this straight...even AFTER Trump announced his presidential campaign, Trump was still trying to do a deal in Russia...conflict of interest anybody?

Document details scrapped deal for Trump Tower Moscow


So, it's not like Trump wasn't TRYING to do biz in Russia, it's just he wasn't successful. Funny that TrumpTowerMoscow.com was just updated on 6-28-2017 and is owned by Trump...

Trump Organization renews rights to TrumpTowerMoscow.com

So, it's not like Trump has completely given up on the thought. (go daddy.com? Well, of course, Trump is cheap)
So Trump does business around the world.  His voters understood that when they voted for him.  In fact, that's one of the reasons they did vote for him.  That he wasn't an establishment politician but a rich CEO who would bring real world business experiences to help the US economy that had been muddling along for 8 years under Socialist Obama.

By the way, your own post shows he originally filed for the domain name in 2008 before Obama even became president the first time. So he had been trying to build in Moscow for 8 years.  He then renewed the domain name process in June of 2015 two months before the first republican debate when his odds of becoming president were probably 200 to 1.  Even during the campaign, was he suppose to stop working for a living?   It's not a big deal except to Trump haters. 

Domain Name: TRUMPTOWERMOSCOW.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1508992055_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Updated Date: 2017-06-28T20:25:39Z
Creation Date: 2008-07-17T20:24:44Z

Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2018-07-01T03:59:59Z
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID: Not Available From Registry
Registrant Name: General Counsel
Registrant Organization: The Trump Organization
Registrant Street: 725 Fifth Avenue
Registrant City: New York
Registrant State/Province: New York
Registrant Postal Code: 10022
Registrant Country: US

texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6054 on: September 09, 2017, 12:11:40 pm »


Haitians are willing to work cheaper than Mexicans, so shouldn't we let them all in, too?   It would be cruel and racist not to.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6055 on: September 09, 2017, 04:51:06 pm »

Unfathomably cruel. 

Perhaps.

Then again, maybe I just believe that a nation is best governed by brains, not hearts.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6056 on: September 09, 2017, 06:29:20 pm »

Perhaps.

Then again, maybe I just believe that a nation is best governed by brains, not hearts.

Well, that rules out Trump ... :P

Cheers,
Bart
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6057 on: September 09, 2017, 06:44:16 pm »

Well, that rules out Trump ... :P

Cheers,
Bart
+100!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6058 on: September 09, 2017, 07:00:58 pm »

That's a good one,  Bart.

Then again, maybe his brain works in mysterious ways ;)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6059 on: September 09, 2017, 08:06:10 pm »

What ???

There are numerous law agencies that do just that, spend their time chasing biker gangs, the mob (well the mob was really destroyed in the late 90s), organized crime, pimps, etc.  There are just so many that they out number the police, but I am sure the goal is to get all of them. 

I am not even sure how someone could believe this statement.

I don't understand how you could arrive at that interpretation of what I wrote.

My point was not self-evident it seems. Of course there are agencies investigating the groups that I mentioned. There should be. But given the number of those crooks (and others) still roaming the streets, they're not exactly getting them all (the foolish and ineffective war on drugs is a glaring example). So why would you want to waste those resources chasing people who are doing an honest day's work to throw them out of the country? How are you further ahead by doing so, is what I was asking.  Is that really a priority or is it just ramped-up anti-foreigner emotion? It's not clear to me which it is.

And by selective prosecution, what I was getting at was that the authorities probably ignore some criminals to give priority to others all the time. So that it's well within the investigative discretion to NOT give priority to some things at certain times. Which is another reason for me to scoff at the chasing down of illegal immigrants. Does anyone actually believe that the authorities will be able to maintain the momentum of doing that over the next 5 months, 5 years, 15 years? I just find that hard to believe.

I guess what I'm saying is, in crude terms, if you can't keep illegal drugs out of prisons, how are you going to chase down millions of illegal immigrants, DACA or otherwise? As offended and irritated as some people are at their presence in the country, I find it impossible to believe that anything much can be realistically done about it.
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