Trump II

[Alan Klein]

I'm sure Alan agrees with you, as for me, I'm not sure

Well in fairness, some of the media objected that Obama released Manning about 27 years before he was suppose to get out of jail.  Since then, he/she's become the darling of the liberal press who's quick to quote all his/her inane opinions.  I doubt if they'll give Arpaio the same credibility despite the fact he served as a sheriff in Arizona for 50 years while Manning is only known for spending 7 years in federal prison for shamefully giving away American secrets and getting dishonorably discharged from our military.  No operation can reverse that treason.

[Alan Klein]

1.  Sadly, so the world notes.

2.  Your denials of reality and the damage we are doing are simply reflected in him - or is it your fanboyism that's the light in which he shines, where you see your own Narcissus? You believe that we can simply pump endless, nay, increasing amounts of crap out into the air and nothing changes. That's a statement, not a question. Why would any sane person accept such a world view? Folks talk about the glass being half-full or half-empty; just stand there, pouring water into it without stopping, and soon you're gonna have wet slippers. You can't grasp this yet; you worry instead about what the loaf's going to cost next year if you use naturally produced flour.

3. The richest man in the cemetery.

1.  Trump serves American interests, not the world's.  I'm sure your PM does the same and I respect her for doing it.
2. Check my responses in the other thread about Climate Change.
3. ?

[Alan Klein]

Agreed also.  I don't know who this "left" is that some folks here seem to think is blind to previous failings on the part of democrats/liberals, but they don't seem to be much in evidence here.  Obama blew some stuff, Clinton did too.  So did Adams, FDR and Reagan.  That's not the point.  The point is that those men - all of them - worked to better the country and did it with reasonable amounts of competence even if some portion of us don't agree with their philosophies.   That's not the situation today. 

Political competence is in the eye of the beholder.  I think Obama failed in race relations, the economy, jobs, trade, international relations and projecting strength to protect America interests.  Obamists feel the opposite.   Well, that's what makes horse races. 

Where Trump is different is that he is politically incorrect and says things like he sees them.  Being a non-politician is what makes him attractive. Many people are tired of politicians who talk out of both sides of their mouths, the usually pablum they feed the electorate to keep the people quiet.  Meanwhile, the Hillaries, McCaines, Romney's, Gores, Bushes, go about their same elite, crony capitalist ways feathering their nests along the way.  That why Bush, the brother and son of two presidents,  only got 5% of the vote during the nomination process.  The people wanted something different not the same old BS. 

Trump could turn out to be just like them, but the evidence for that is not in.  In fact, just the opposite.  He is pushing forward with most of the promises he made in his campaign.  You may not like them, but he was elected on them and has begun to fulfill them.  That's competency. 

[kers]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/25/us-central-bank-boss-janet-yellen-rebukes-trump-over-plan-to-lift-regulations

Janet Yellen says the dodd-frank regulations made the economy more stable and that it would be wise to keep them in place and only make small changes ...

That sounds sensible after such a deep economic crisis but maybe not to Trump...

[Alan Klein]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/25/us-central-bank-boss-janet-yellen-rebukes-trump-over-plan-to-lift-regulations

Janet Yellen says the dodd-frank regulations made the economy more stable and that it would be wise to keep them in place and only make small changes ...

That sounds sensible after such a deep economic crisis but maybe not to Trump...

It was Democrat President Bill Clinton who repealed the Glass-Steagall Act in 1998 that had been protecting our financial system since the Great depression.  Many blame this for part of the 2008 recession and subsequent bailout.  But Dodd-Frank has harmed regional and local banks and put many of them out of business,  Meanwhile, it has made the big "not-to-fail" banks who got bailed out even bigger than before their failures in 2008.  When we get hit with a major recession, the damage will be greater and the bailouts even more expensive.  Frankly, I don't know what Trump can do to prevent that.

[Rob C]

1.  Trump serves American interests, not the world's.  I'm sure your PM does the same and I respect her for doing it.
2. Check my responses in the other thread about Climate Change.
3. ?

1.  Trump, as with our PM, serves many masters, mostly to his own benefit. The US is but his vehicle. The world's interests, on the other hand, affect us all and we hold a mutual responsibility to ensure we avoid suicide. Were it simply US air and oceans being poisoned, then some might just sigh and say well, c'est la vie. However, it's not exclusive to America. What you do or do not do affects us all. Is that too opaque for you?

2.  You're kidding, aren't you?

3.  You overlook the price to life of your nearsighted view of employment that consists of creating the ending of a life-sustaining world through massive pollution. I'm still able to remember the state of the air during the 50s before Britain awoke from its slumbers and did something about air pollution. I remember driving home along tram tracks, the only way to navigate through the Glasgow smog. I used to wear shirts in those days; the collars were black each day. No, I didn't work down the mines. The worst they get there today is fog.

[Alan Klein]

1.  Trump, as with our PM, serves many masters, mostly to his own benefit. The US is but his vehicle. The world's interests, on the other hand, affect us all and we hold a mutual responsibility to ensure we avoid suicide. Were it simply US air and oceans being poisoned, then some might just sigh and say well, c'est la vie. However, it's not exclusive to America. What you do or do not do affects us all. Is that too opaque for you?

2.  You're kidding, aren't you?

3.  You overlook the price to life of your nearsighted view of employment that consists of creating the ending of a life-sustaining world through massive pollution. I'm still able to remember the state of the air during the 50s before Britain awoke from its slumbers and did something about air pollution. I remember driving home along tram tracks, the only way to navigate through the Glasgow smog. I used to wear shirts in those days; the collars were black each day. No, I didn't work down the mines. The worst they get there today is fog.

You're confusing pollution with climate change.  America has cleaned up their water and air to a very large extent. California leads the way.  If the Paris Accord didn't let China off the hook from doing mothing until 2030, maybe it would have been a reasonable deal.  Meanwhile China contributes 30% of the world's CO2 up from 27% in 2011 while America produces 14% down from 17%.

regarding pollution, Germany cheated with diesel automobiles for the last ten years causing pollution 40 times greater than the regulation limit.  We just sent one of the VW engineers to prison for 40 months.  Another one might get 7 years in jail.  We'd like to get our hands on the executives and powers that be that let this happen.  But they're hiding in Europe  protected by Chancellor Merkel.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

and Bill Clinton pardoned Roger Clinton ... Dermocrats rock !

How about Mark Rich (bold mine)?

In 1983 Rich and partner Pincus Green were indicted on 65 criminal counts, including income tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and trading with Iran during the oil embargo (at a time when Iranian revolutionaries were still holding American citizens hostage).[7][17] The charges would have led to a sentence of more than 300 years in prison had Rich been convicted on all counts.[17] The indictment was filed by then-U.S. Federal Prosecutor (and future mayor of New York City) Rudolph Giuliani. At the time it was the biggest tax evasion case in U.S. history.[18]...

... Rich himself remained on the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Ten Most-Wanted Fugitives List for many years...

... On January 20, 2001, hours before leaving office, U.S. President Bill Clinton granted Rich a highly controversial presidential pardon. Several of Clinton's strongest supporters distanced themselves from the decision.[23] Former President Jimmy Carter, a fellow Democrat, said, "I don't think there is any doubt that some of the factors in his pardon were attributable to his large gifts. In my opinion, that was disgraceful."[24] Clinton himself later expressed regret for issuing the pardon, saying that "it wasn't worth the damage to my reputation."[9]

Clinton's critics alleged that Rich's pardon had been bought, as Denise Rich had given more than $1 million[25] to Clinton's political party (the Democratic Party), including more than $100,000 to the Senate campaign of the president's wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and $450,000 to the Clinton Library foundation during Clinton's time in office.[21]

[pegelli]

Meanwhile China contributes 30% of the world's CO2 up from 27% in 2011 while America produces 14% down from 17%.

This is irrelevant (figures don't lie, but lyers figure), per capita the US is the biggest CO2 producer (still today and for a long time). There's many countries with even smaller emissions (both per capita and in total) then the US who are still pulling their weight.

regarding pollution, Germany cheated with diesel automobiles for the last ten years causing pollution 40 times greater than the regulation limit.  We just sent one of the VW engineers to prison for 40 months.  Another one might get 7 years in jail.  We'd like to get our hands on the executives and powers that be that let this happen.  But they're hiding in Europe  protected by Chancellor Merkel.

Does the US extradite US citizens to other countries for crimes they (may have) comitted in other countries? I guess the answer is no, so what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. They're not protected by Merkel, they're protected by the same laws that protect US citizens in similar cases.

And the way Trump is dismantling the EPA very soon the old/cheaty VW's will easily meet your new standards

[pegelli]

How about Mark Rich (bold mine)?

Agreed, it's disgraceful. The executive branch should not second guess the judicial branch. I think it's high time presidential pardons should de abolished.

[Alan Klein]

This is irrelevant (figures don't lie, but lyers figure), per capita the US is the biggest CO2 producer (still today and for a long time). There's many countries with even smaller emissions (both per capita and in total) then the US who are still pulling their weight.
Does the US extradite US citizens to other countries for crimes they (may have) comitted in other countries? I guess the answer is no, so what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. They're not protected by Merkel, they're protected by the same laws that protect US citizens in similar cases.

And the way Trump is dismantling the EPA very soon the old/cheaty VW's will easily meet your new standards

The Earth doesn't care about per capita CO2 production.  It's the total produced that will effect the climate if it in fact effects the climate, another discussion for the other thread.  In any case, China's more than twice that of America and going even higher because they don't have to do anything until 2030.  The Paris Accord is stupid letting China off the hook.

I understand that Germany might not want to extradite. But what prosecutions have they done?  Who's gone to jail?  In America we're serious about these things and send people to jail.  Meanwhile, Germany protects it's companies and executives from prosecution regarding the diesel corruption.  It tells America hypocritically they should agree to the Paris Accord where they'll cut corners there too as they have with the 2% for NATO.  Trump wasn't born yesterday.  He knows when the fix is in as in the Paris Accord.  Especially when there are no legal penalties to meet any requirements.  America would meet the requirements at our loss while everyone else will cheat. 

[Alan Klein]

Agreed, it's disgraceful. The executive branch should not second guess the judicial branch. I think it's high time presidential pardons should de abolished.

It would require an Amendment to the Constitution, highly unlikely.  Actually I think it's a good thing to have despite the sometime abuse.  It's good to have a final arbiter who can provide forgiveness at some point for people who have made their amends or for people where new evidence should allow for it.  Governors of all States have executive clemency ability too.  It goes along with Judeo-Christian tradition.  In any case, if God can forgive, so should we. 

[pegelli]

The Earth doesn't care about per capita CO2 production.  It's the total produced that will effect the climate if it in fact effects the climate, another discussion for the other thread.

indeed for another thread, but absolute bollocks what you say here. The world wants every citizen to emit as low CO2 as possible, currently (and for a long time) the US citizens are the worst performers.

In America we're serious about these things and send people to jail.   

You mean serious about blaming and pointing fingers to others while you are not one iota better then the others. I'm not following the court cases, but serious criminal investigations are underway in these Dieselgate cases and if proven people will be punished. No government or chancellor can influence or overrule the judges. There is no system of presidential pardon here. 

[pegelli]

In any case, if God can forgive, so should we.

In my mind to the contrary, only God can forgive, for the rest our earthly rules (incl. separation of power) should be followed. There's too much politics and short term thinking in executive pardons.

[Peter McLennan]

The difficulty with tying to explain anything to you, Alan, is that you don't appear willing (able?) to take any new information into your mind, digest it and understand what has been explained.

Precisely.  With emphasis on the "don't appear willing" part.  On the Climate Deniers thread, Alan said that he "didn't have time to read a pdf", one that might contradict his opinions.  Just like he "didn't have time" to read something I linked to recently.

Yet apparently he has ooooooodles of time to write extensive drivellish posts that we're expected to read and believe.  Go figure.

[James Clark]

How about Mark Rich (bold mine)?

What about him?  All I see in your quote is how many Democrats agree it was a horrid idea.  Again, most people, left and right, seem to agree - What Clinton did was wrong, and it was probably one of the more egregious abuses of pardoning power. (I say that not being particularly aware of historically controversial pardons beyond Nixon).   Rich was a thief and, one could argue, a traitor.  Arpaio is an unrepentant racist with utter disregard for the Constitution who wrongfully and deliberately imprisoned American citizens on the basis of their appearance.   But the thing is, only one side here, at least, is defending one of them.    One thing Trump does seem to have been right about - he COULD shoot a guy in broad daylight on 5th Ave. and some % of idiot "Americans" would still make excuses for him.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... and some % of idiot "Americans" would still make excuses for him.

Are you suggesting I am not an American (quotation marks) or that I am an idiot, or both? 

[James Clark]

Are you suggesting I am not an American (quotation marks) or that I am an idiot, or both? 

Truly, neither.  I would expect that if Donald Trump was caught executing a random American you wouldn't be ok with that.  "Some %" was not meant as a (not very) subtle dig at you, Alan or anyone else here.  I guess I can see why that might have been implied, and it wasn't my intent.   I might question your (or Alan's or anyone else's) understanding/interpretation of core Constitutional principles, but I've been pretty careful (I think) not to throw direct insults at people here, nor would I, knowing that you recently became a citizen, demean, question or belittle that choice.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Are you suggesting I am not an American (quotation marks) or that I am an idiot, or both? 

Would you make excuses for Trump if he'd shoot a guy in broad daylight on 5th Ave?

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

indeed for another thread, but absolute bollocks what you say here. The world wants every citizen to emit as low CO2 as possible, currently (and for a long time) the US citizens are the worst performers...

I have no idea how a serious guy like you can say that!? Of course it is the total amount, not per capita, that the Earth cares about. Say citizens of Vatican (population 451) miraculously (which wouldn't be hard for that place) reduce their CO2 emission to zero - would the Earth even notice?  In terms of the US and China, the US "per capita" emission would need to be four times as much just to equal the total one of China (and maybe it is, I do not know, but per capita is totally irrelevant concept here).