Pages: 1 ... 279 280 [281] 282 283 ... 331   Go Down

Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918305 times)

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5024
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5600 on: August 26, 2017, 10:51:51 am »

Rather interesting discussion. 

Trump, purely for political reasons, pardons Arpaio for contempt of court, and the media and pundits loose their minds. 

Obama, purely for political reasons, (essentially) pardons Manning for "Aiding the Enemy," violating the Espionage Act, stealing government property ... and 19 other offenses, so 22 in total that he was convicted of, and the media and pundits cared considerably less. 

Personally, I think they're both wrong, but if we go by past precedence.   
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 11:14:42 am by JoeKitchen »
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18092
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5601 on: August 26, 2017, 11:02:18 am »

... Trump, purely for political reasons, pardons Arpaio for contempt of court, and the media and pundits loose their minds. 

Obama, purely for political reasons, (essentially) pardons Manning for "Aiding the Enemy," violating the Espionage Act, stealing government property ... and 19 other offenses, so 22 in total that he was convicted of, and the media and pundits cared considerably less...

Good point, Joe!

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5602 on: August 26, 2017, 11:06:02 am »

Rather interesting discussion. 

Trump, purely for political reasons, pardons Arpaio for contempt of court, and the media and pundits loose their minds. 

Obama, purely for political reasons, (essentially) pardons Manning for "Aiding the Enemy," violating the Espionage Act, stealing government property ... and 19 other offenses, so 22 in total that he was convicted of, and the media and pundits cared considerably less. 

Personally, I think there both wrong, but if we go by past precedence.

Joe, I agree with you, both pardons were wrong in my opinion.

However the difference in media outrage might be explained by the fact that Manning pardon was part of the (stupid) pardonning US presidents feel they should do as their last act as president, while the Arpaio pardon comes at less then one year into Trump's presidency. So Obama's presidency would no longer benefit from the action. That's totally different in the Arpaio case, allthough I wonder if it will really help the current presidency.
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

mecrox

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
    • My Online Portfolio
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5603 on: August 26, 2017, 11:12:01 am »

Sooner or later people are going to look past the diversionary tactics and start to ask where the big stuff has disappeared to. You know, jobs, the economy, education, fairer taxes for regular folks not billionaires, good healthcare, etc., etc. The stuff they thought they were voting for. God forbid but at that point a lot of people might start to realize that diversionary tactics is all there is and that they've been deceived by a lying son of a gun, just like all the other lying hounds before him except this one has a penchant for orange make-up. The big stuff is not going to happen. It was never going to happen because the premises on which it was based were all a fantasy. I guess at that point falling down on the Oval Office carpet and gesturing weakly for the fake doctor may be the only way out.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 11:18:57 am by mecrox »
Logged
Mark @ Flickr

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5604 on: August 26, 2017, 11:22:46 am »

Export of the manufacturing facilities to China is the most noticable but it is only the tip of the iceberg. Many related job losses go unnoticed.

At one time, most of the mail orders in USA and Canada were fulfilled by the US or Canadian sellers or manufacturers. As the production of thousands (or millions?) of products moved to China, many of those items are now distributed worldwide directly by Chinese companies. The Northamerican distributors simply can't match their prices and have folded their operations. In addition, China Post has much lower shipping fees (i.e. you can order on eBay or Amazon a small battery, lens filter or another small item from China for a few dollars, whereas to order it from a US or Canadian based company the shipping alone might cost $10), so in effect also the order fulfillment and shipping services have moved overseas.

I just looked up the cost of buying a 52mm lens cap from a US or Canadian company vs a Chinese seller on eBay.
B&H Price comes to $16.95US ($6.95 for the cap,$8.10 for shipping, and $1.90 for Customs clearance (for Ontario residents).
Buying it from Henrys in Canada it would cost $20.32CAD ($12.99 cap, $5.00 shipping, $2.33 tax). 
The Chinese seller's price is 99 cents (79 cents without the Nikon logo).
One would have to feel very patriotic to order such an item from a Northamerican supplier. Or he would need it next week.

This is just one small item, but add all online orders now fulfilled each year by Chinese sellers and we are talking about billions of dollars being made outside of this continent. Meanwhile, US Mail annual losses are increasing - $5.6B loss in 2016 (Canada Post actually made some money for the last 3 years) and their solution to address the decreasing shipping volumes is to raise their prices every year.
 
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/306224-us-postal-services-posts-56b-loss-for-2016
Les, How doe the Chinese ship a 99 cent product and what does it cost?

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5024
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5605 on: August 26, 2017, 11:30:09 am »

Joe, I agree with you, both pardons were wrong in my opinion.

However the difference in media outrage might be explained by the fact that Manning pardon was part of the (stupid) pardonning US presidents feel they should do as their last act as president, while the Arpaio pardon comes at less then one year into Trump's presidency. So Obama's presidency would no longer benefit from the action. That's totally different in the Arpaio case, allthough I wonder if it will really help the current presidency.

If both of their crimes were at the same level of severity, I would agree with this.  However, Manning's offenses are considerably more severe then one count of contempt of court. 

I think it is a pretty good example of the overall media bias. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5606 on: August 26, 2017, 11:31:17 am »

Rather interesting discussion. 

Trump, purely for political reasons, pardons Arpaio for contempt of court, and the media and pundits loose their minds. 

Obama, purely for political reasons, (essentially) pardons Manning for "Aiding the Enemy," violating the Espionage Act, stealing government property ... and 19 other offenses, so 22 in total that he was convicted of, and the media and pundits cared considerably less. 

Personally, I think they're both wrong, but if we go by past precedence.   

I was thinking of the same thing. +1  It's all political. 

One point, Obama commuted Manning's sentence.  That doesn't take away the conviction.  It stops the sentence.  Arpaio was pardoned which eliminates the conviction totally. 
 

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5607 on: August 26, 2017, 11:37:14 am »

If both of their crimes were at the same level of severity, I would agree with this.  However, Manning's offenses are considerably more severe then one count of contempt of court. 

I think it is a pretty good example of the overall media bias. 
During my divorce, I was either held in contempt of court or threatened with being held in contempt of court.  I forget all the circumstances (or put it out of my mind. :) It was so long ago.  Anyway, my ex will talk to me today despite all the hullabaloo back then.    No I wasn't pardoned.  No, I didn't go to jail.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5608 on: August 26, 2017, 11:39:36 am »




Is she a parrot too? Can you change her mind?

She'd never get time to listen. Just imagine: she gets stuck like that, and you have to accompany her to bed - for a good night's sleep. You'd never make it. Your work would suffer, the neighbours would complain and insist you turn the record off! But never in the world of Internet idiocy where, as in the song, this could go on for ever!

;-)

Rob

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5609 on: August 26, 2017, 11:46:54 am »

Reminds me of this:

"Small minds discuss people.

Average minds discuss events.

Great minds discuss concepts.
"

What does it tell you about this obsession with Trump?

So that must be why Trump is obsessed with Hillary and the fact he won? Clearly he doesn't discuss "conceps" unless "build the wall" or "lock her up" are "concepts (and not actions)
Logged

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4393
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5610 on: August 26, 2017, 11:55:31 am »

If both of their crimes were at the same level of severity, I would agree with this.  However, Manning's offenses are considerably more severe then one count of contempt of court. 

I think it is a pretty good example of the overall media bias.

Manning spend 8 years in jail...
Logged
Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu/la

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5024
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5611 on: August 26, 2017, 11:57:15 am »

I was thinking of the same thing. +1  It's all political. 

One point, Obama commuted Manning's sentence.  That doesn't take away the conviction.  It stops the sentence.  Arpaio was pardoned which eliminates the conviction totally. 
 

That's why I said essentially; reducing a 35 year prison term to 7 years is quite the reduction.  Not that it matters, it appears the left is allowing Manning to wear those convictions like a badge of honor. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5612 on: August 26, 2017, 12:01:46 pm »

Sooner or later people are going to look past the diversionary tactics and start to ask where the big stuff has disappeared to. You know, jobs, the economy, education, fairer taxes for regular folks not billionaires, good healthcare, etc., etc. The stuff they thought they were voting for. God forbid but at that point a lot of people might start to realize that diversionary tactics is all there is and that they've been deceived by a lying son of a gun, just like all the other lying hounds before him except this one has a penchant for orange make-up. The big stuff is not going to happen. It was never going to happen because the premises on which it was based were all a fantasy. I guess at that point falling down on the Oval Office carpet and gesturing weakly for the fake doctor may be the only way out.

I agree with your first part that there are diversionary tactics and the like.  But then you went on to blame Trump.  That doesn't make sense.

First off, Trump's been president for 7 months.  All the big stuff you mentioned like jobs, the economy, education, fairer taxes for regular folks not billionaires, good healthcare, etc., etc.  were problems long before Trump became president.  Certainly you're not blaming him for causing those things.

Of course, now that he is president you, and I, expect him to make good on his promises to correct those things.  But it's only been 7 months.  Obama blamed Bush for his problems for 7 years!!.  At least Trump acknowledges he's the president and takes responsibility for having to change things.  And he's started.

For example, he's reversed many of Obama's economic edicts that hurt the economy and jobs like the approving oil pipelines, lessening regulations, freeing up industry from many impediments that costs jobs.  He's pulled out of the Paris Accord that would have reduced economic activity and raise costs on our purchases, he stopped TPP and is renegotiating NAFTA.  He's imposed sanctions on certain Chinese corporate chiefs and plans to follow through with more as he negotiates with China for better trade deals.   He's reduced illegal immigration on our southern border by about half which improves the job situation for Americans out of work and reduces social benefits paid to illegals lowering our tax burden.  You may not agree with the things he's doing.  But he ran on these changes, won the election,  and he's following through.

The areas he's having trouble is with healthcare, taxes, and infrastructure.  Of course in these areas, he has to depend on Congress.  Only legislation can change these things.  The president isn't a king and cannot enact laws by decree.  Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your view, Congress is divided  by two parties and the Republicans are divided as well.  Hopefully, they'll get their act together.  But you're right to feel impatient.  I feel the same way.  We need to do more to help the economy. 

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5613 on: August 26, 2017, 12:26:40 pm »

Les, How doe the Chinese ship a 99 cent product and what does it cost?

99 cents total cost, incl. shipping (for a lens cap or other small item). I don't know how they do it, I wouldn't be surprised if China subsidizes the shipping costs.
Or maybe the seller absorbs fully the shipping costs in order to build up his positive feedback score (to achieve a more advantegous eBay seller status).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/52-mm-Front-Lens-Cap-Center-Snap-on-Lens-cap-for-Nikon-D3200-D7000-D5200-/131679342002?hash=item1ea8b34db2:g:vgwAAOSwhkRWc76z
Logged

scyth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5614 on: August 26, 2017, 12:53:24 pm »

Rather interesting discussion. 

Trump, purely for political reasons, pardons Arpaio for contempt of court, and the media and pundits loose their minds. 

Obama, purely for political reasons, (essentially) pardons Manning for "Aiding the Enemy," violating the Espionage Act, stealing government property ... and 19 other offenses, so 22 in total that he was convicted of, and the media and pundits cared considerably less. 

Personally, I think they're both wrong, but if we go by past precedence.

and Bill Clinton pardoned Roger Clinton ... Dermocrats rock !
Logged

scyth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5615 on: August 26, 2017, 12:58:20 pm »


It's much the same deal as Brexit, especially at the low end of the earnings scale.

this is not about  low wages - this is about allegedly unemployed yankee whining that nobody wants to train and pay him/her $100K while refusing to show his/her allegedly present IQ to wrestle $65K job from some indian H-1B dude ... the reality is those who have IQ don't whine and make more (in this economy)... those who don't are simply non worth even twice less money.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5616 on: August 26, 2017, 01:03:04 pm »


1.  At least Trump acknowledges he's the president and takes responsibility for having to change things.  And he's started.

2.  For example, he's reversed many of Obama's economic edicts that hurt the economy and jobs like the approving oil pipelines, lessening regulations, freeing up industry from many impediments that costs jobs.  He's pulled out of the Paris Accord that would have reduced economic activity and raise costs on our purchases, he stopped TPP and is renegotiating NAFTA.  He's imposed sanctions on certain Chinese corporate chiefs and plans to follow through with more as he negotiates with China for better trade deals.   He's reduced illegal immigration on our southern border by about half which improves the job situation for Americans out of work and reduces social benefits paid to illegals lowering our tax burden.  You may not agree with the things he's doing.  But he ran on these changes, won the election,  and he's following through.

3.  We need to do more to help the economy.


1.  Sadly, so the world notes.

2.  Your denials of reality and the damage we are doing are simply reflected in him - or is it your fanboyism that's the light in which he shines, where you see your own Narcissus? You believe that we can simply pump endless, nay, increasing amounts of crap out into the air and nothing changes. That's a statement, not a question. Why would any sane person accept such a world view? Folks talk about the glass being half-full or half-empty; just stand there, pouring water into it without stopping, and soon you're gonna have wet slippers. You can't grasp this yet; you worry instead about what the loaf's going to cost next year if you use naturally produced flour.

3. The richest man in the cemetery.

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5617 on: August 26, 2017, 01:14:55 pm »

I think it is a pretty good example of the overall media bias.
I'm sure Alan agrees with you, as for me, I'm not sure ;)
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5618 on: August 26, 2017, 01:48:09 pm »

99 cents total cost, incl. shipping (for a lens cap or other small item). I don't know how they do it, I wouldn't be surprised if China subsidizes the shipping costs.
Or maybe the seller absorbs fully the shipping costs in order to build up his positive feedback score (to achieve a more advantegous eBay seller status).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/52-mm-Front-Lens-Cap-Center-Snap-on-Lens-cap-for-Nikon-D3200-D7000-D5200-/131679342002?hash=item1ea8b34db2:g:vgwAAOSwhkRWc76z
This could be some of the things Trump wants to correct.  If China is subsidizing products, that could have a huge impact on industries.  I don't think Nikon lens caps would be an issue.  We don't make those.  But more important things like steel, or aluminum, where subsidizing could force American companies out of business is an areas of concern.  Of course we do it too with food stuffs, so it gets complicated. 

James Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2347
Re: Trump II
« Reply #5619 on: August 26, 2017, 01:48:58 pm »

Joe, I agree with you, both pardons were wrong in my opinion.

However the difference in media outrage might be explained by the fact that Manning pardon was part of the (stupid) pardonning US presidents feel they should do as their last act as president, while the Arpaio pardon comes at less then one year into Trump's presidency. So Obama's presidency would no longer benefit from the action. That's totally different in the Arpaio case, allthough I wonder if it will really help the current presidency.

Agreed also.  I don't know who this "left" is that some folks here seem to think is blind to previous failings on the part of democrats/liberals, but they don't seem to be much in evidence here.  Obama blew some stuff, Clinton did too.  So did Adams, FDR and Reagan.  That's not the point.  The point is that those men - all of them - worked to better the country and did it with reasonable amounts of competence even if some portion of us don't agree with their philosophies.   That's not the situation today. 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 279 280 [281] 282 283 ... 331   Go Up