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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918445 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5360 on: August 21, 2017, 09:09:50 pm »

... So, 33 out of 40,000 got arrested (and we even don't know from which side), and you call that a mob????

Where did I call that a mob?

Have you actually paid attention to what I was quoting when I used that term? The article was a general commentary on the limits of free speech, and not once was any particular event mentioned in it, let alone the last one in Boston. So, I replied to a general commentary with a general commentary. A mob is "a large crowd of people, especially one that is disorderly and intent on causing trouble or violence: a mob of protesters." - a dictionary definition. This is exactly who shouldn't "determine and enforce" the limits of free speech, as I said.

So, next time you want to criticize my post, read it carefully first.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5361 on: August 21, 2017, 09:24:44 pm »

That's hardly a condescending tone, Slobo.  Bart's right that it's demonstrably the case that many people don't understand the distinction that the constitution limits the government.  Your broader view is not unique, but it's of no consequence when discussing someone's rights or the government's intervention (or not) with the exercise of those rights.

Harping on about that narrow, technical aspect of the free speech is an excuse for some people to argue that "yes, the government can not limit it, but we can." However, the concept of free speech is so precious that democratic governments not only refrain from limiting it, but actively protect it. Hence the police protection, once it is properly registered and approved. And since my view is not unique, as you rightly noticed, but quite widespread, it is certainly of consequence.

texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5362 on: August 21, 2017, 09:28:44 pm »

I guess Antifa's bricks are strictly for self defense?

U.S. Civil Rights Commission votes 6-2  to legitimize Alt-Left violence.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450651/antifa-violence-willfully-ignored-civil-rights-commission-refuses-condemn



« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 11:35:20 am by texshooter »
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Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5363 on: August 21, 2017, 09:49:38 pm »

Harping on about that narrow, technical aspect of the free speech is an excuse for some people to argue that "yes, the government can not limit it, but we can." However, the concept of free speech is so precious that democratic governments not only refrain from limiting it, but actively protect it. Hence the police protection, once it is properly registered and approved. And since my view is not unique, as you rightly noticed, but quite widespread, it is certainly of consequence.

There's no reason at all that private companies or individuals can't limit speech within their legal sphere of influence.  The is not, and never has been, about such limitations.  It has always been about communal limitations and that means, in a democracy, the government.

We've already seen limits on speech set in this thread by the moderator - ignoring it being a Canadian and not US website, where are the howls of protest?  There are none, because we all accept the right of the operators to limit speech as they see fit (and we can participate or not as we see fit).

So any discussion about the broader principle of free speech is fine, but it's only the effect of it that counts.  Where does the government (and the law) draw the line?  Other matters of principle are grand and all, but they don't give rise to an effect.
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Phil Brown

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5364 on: August 21, 2017, 09:59:00 pm »

What are you talking about Phil? This debate is not about private limits on free speech within private spaces, but about mob-imposed violent limits to free speech in public.

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5365 on: August 21, 2017, 10:10:20 pm »

What are you talking about Phil? This debate is not about private limits on free speech within private spaces, but about mob-imposed violent limits to free speech in public.

It's all related, but it comes down to what the government has the power and the will to do as to what matters in a situation like this.  Violence is illegal and relatively small group was arrested - that's what I've read from this.  And that's good - they should have been arrested for being illegally violent.  Both sides (that's wrong - let me correct - ALL sides) do it from time to time, some more than others.  Some threaten it ("over my dead body" style comments), so do it.

Violent opposition to free speech is bad?  Yes.  Should every single piece of speech be protected?  No, but it should be stopped through legal means by the authorities, not random, violent people.
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Phil Brown

texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5366 on: August 21, 2017, 10:36:34 pm »

The Left has found a new civil rights leader.

Chelsea Manning:  "Open all borders, to everyone, always, no exceptions"

I'll hazard to guess what I'd be labeled if I voiced disagreement.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/21/chelsea-manning-imagine-world-without-borders-police-prisons/
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 11:11:24 pm by texshooter »
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Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5367 on: August 21, 2017, 10:42:16 pm »

I gather you've entirely missed the point, right?  Imagine.  That's the key, but that doesn't fit your agenda, of course.
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Phil Brown

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5368 on: August 21, 2017, 10:50:43 pm »

I gather you've entirely missed the point, right?...

Do enlighten us, Phil :)

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5369 on: August 21, 2017, 11:23:59 pm »

While the fake news continues to mock Trump with "nyah-nyah" and their continuing childish and supercilious derisive taunts, he goes about his duties as Commander-in-Chief and President making important policy decisions about Afghanistan that effect the world.  He reverses his campaign promise to pull out like Obama did in Iraq, refuses to be an armchair general and turns military planning over to his commanders, he assures this will be war not nation building, we will destroy terrorists, we won't show our military hand, Pakistan better stop helping the terrorists or else, he urges India to support us strongly, he expects NATO to assist in Afghanistan and up their payments even more then they have, he will provide the military with the best arms to get the job done.

You can agree or disagree with his plans.  I have my own doubts.  But there is no lack of hesitancy on his will to lead despite the "nattering nabobs of negativism" from those who oppose him and urge him to resign or the Congress to "fire" him by impeachment.  Those who do will have to come up with Plan B. 
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/347424-trump-vows-dramatic-shift-in-afghanistan-strategy

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5370 on: August 21, 2017, 11:33:47 pm »

Do enlighten us, Phil :)

I already did, mate!  Imagine.  It's an ideal.  Wouldn't it be good if that were possible?  If we ever reached that point?  It's a far cry from saying "this is what we should do right now in the current situation".  Imagine - it's easy if you try :-)
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Phil Brown

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5371 on: August 22, 2017, 12:46:35 am »

While the fake news continues to mock Trump with "nyah-nyah" and their continuing childish and supercilious derisive taunts, he goes about his duties as Commander-in-Chief and President making important policy decisions about Afghanistan that effect the world.

Well, at least he didn't go blind looking at the eclipse...oh, wait, maybe he did...better get his eyes checked!

Donald Trump stares into solar eclipse without safety glasses, while aides shout 'don't look!'



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Donald Trump has been caught looking at the solar eclipse without safety glasses, despite all expert advice saying this practice is dangerous. 

“Looking directly at the sun is unsafe except during the brief total phase of a solar eclipse (“totality”), when the moon entirely blocks the sun’s bright face, which will happen only within the narrow path of totality,” Nasa wrote on a webpage discussing how to view the 2017 solar eclipse safely.

“The only safe way to look directly at the uneclipsed or partially eclipsed sun is through special-purpose solar filters, such as ‘eclipse glasses’ or  or hand-held solar viewers.”

But this didn't stop the President, who has a reported tendency to act against the advice of his aides, from sneaking a peak after taking off his protective glasses. He squinted as he briefly looked up at the sun.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5372 on: August 22, 2017, 12:53:21 am »

Two new impeachable offenses: bad wine and looking into the sun without 😎

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5373 on: August 22, 2017, 12:56:38 am »

56% of Americans Disapprove of President Trump's Response to Charlottesville

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A majority of Americans disapproved of President Donald Trump's response to the deadly clashes at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., according to findings from a new poll.

The Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 56% of adults disapproved of Trump's response, while just 28% approved. There was a stark difference along party lines, as 84% of Democrats said they disapproved and just 19% of Republicans said the same. Among independents, 55% disapproved compared to just 28% approving.

The survey was conducted after the press conference in which Trump defended people associated with white supremacist groups and said "both sides" were to blame for the violence in Charlottesville that left one counter-protester dead. The remarks earned him praise from white supremacists.

A full 42% of respondents said Trump was putting white supremacists on equal standing with their opponents, while 35% said Trump was not.
An overwhelmingly majority of Americans said it was unacceptable to hold neo-Nazi or white supremacist views, and just 9% said those views were acceptable. The poll — which surveyed 1,014 adults by phone — was conducted Aug. 16 to Aug. 20 and had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

But hey, it's just a poll so it's like #FAKENEWS so Trump supporters don't have to believe it, right?
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5374 on: August 22, 2017, 12:57:40 am »

Two new impeachable offenses: bad wine and looking into the sun without 😎

Yer darn tootin'...particularly the bad wine part!
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texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5375 on: August 22, 2017, 12:58:02 am »

Trump on his 180 with Afganistan:

We don't have a war plan.
We don't have an exit strategy.
We don't have a timetable.
We don't have a budget.
We will no longer nation build.
We will no longer spread democracy by force.
We don't know what the future holds.
We don't know what victory looks like.

But we will win.

Uhhh?


« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 03:44:25 am by texshooter »
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5376 on: August 22, 2017, 01:12:18 am »

Another reason for Donny to resign!

Charities are hitting Trump where it hurts -- the wallet



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At least 11 organizations have canceled fundraisers at Mar-a-Lago, President Trump's Florida resort.
Who's next?

Two more organizations said Monday they are backing out of events at the Trump club. The Kravis Center for the Performing Arts will move its February wine auction, and Hearing the Ovarian Cancer Whisper will take its January luncheon to a nearby museum.

The Palm Beach Preservation Foundation and the Palm Beach Zoo and Conservation Society made similar moves over the weekend.

The exodus began after Trump said counter-protesters shared the blame for the violence at a white nationalist gathering in Charlottesville, Virginia. He also said that "very fine people" were mixed in with neo-Nazis and white supremacists.

The Cleveland Clinic, the American Red Cross, the Salvation Army and the Susan G. Komen Foundation are among the other organizations that backed out of plans to hold events at Mar-a-Lago, in Palm Beach.

Jennifer McGrath, executive director of Hearing the Ovarian Cancer Whisper, said the decision to move the luncheon was not political. "We just want to do what's best for the organization and focus on our mission," she said.

It was a bad week for Trump's businessman image. Both his business advisory councils disbanded as CEOs, one after another, distanced themselves from the president.

But the cancellations at Mar-a-Lago are more than just bad PR for Trump. Because he maintains an ownership interest in his real estate properties, including Mar-a-Lago, the defections also hit him in the wallet.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5377 on: August 22, 2017, 01:18:24 am »

Well, at least he didn't go blind looking at the eclipse...oh, wait, maybe he did...better get his eyes checked!


Stop with the fake news.  Your crying wolf is going to backfire come election time.  He was just gesticulating for the press.  Watch the whole movie.   In the meanwhile, develop a real plan for defeating Republicans.  Nyah-nyahing isn't going to work. 
http://nypost.com/2017/08/21/trump-looked-directly-at-the-solar-eclipse-without-shades/

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5378 on: August 22, 2017, 01:25:47 am »

Another reason for Donny to resign!

Charities are hitting Trump where it hurts -- the wallet




Yeah, he's going to resign.  Right.  You guys really believe this stuff.  Is that the new Democrat plan for victory.  "We're Taking Over When He Resigns."

jeremyrh

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5379 on: August 22, 2017, 01:28:18 am »

I guess Antifa's bricks are strictly for self defense?

Those bricks look like they are in .... what was the expression you used ... "defensive posture".
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