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MattBurt

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5180 on: August 17, 2017, 01:35:15 pm »

I've never seen the absolute dedication and level to these kind of racist charges and the kinds of ad hominin political attacks that have occurred since Trump's presidency. 

I'm afraid this is going to lead to pitched battles between different groups.  I don't think it's going to end well for the country.

I've actually seen much worse, just last year!
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5181 on: August 17, 2017, 01:36:51 pm »

Too bad Trump doesn't understand this and keeps fanning the flames: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/346929-trump-revives-defense-of-confederate-monuments.

Or does anyone actually believe that he has deep feelings for those statues? Everyone clan member knows EXACTLY what those words mean.

For some reason he is deliberately choosing to alienate everyone over and over again, including Republicans. The only people left who are listening to these nutty messages are the neo-Nazis and the KKK members. Is this good for the country?

Maybe he's keeping the left and Democrats off balance as he did during the campaign.  While he's focusing on the economy and making America safe, the Democrats are still playing the race card and identity politics.  People still need to feed their families and need jobs, good jobs.  During the next election, no one is going to remember or care about a bunch of bronze statues of dead people sitting on dead horses.  Democrats are staying trapped in the same thinking as during the campaign rather than addressing the real concerns of most Americans as Trump is doing: jobs, debt, terrorism, immigration, health, trade, security.  As long as Republicans and Trump stay focused on these things, Dems will be left on the dock and miss the boat again. 

Bon voyage!

Chairman Bill

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5182 on: August 17, 2017, 01:43:20 pm »

What do you suggest?

Well, I have certain guiding principles, namely Freedom, Equality and Fairness. You can put them in any order you like because no one is more important than the other. If you fetishise one thing, you end up in a bad place. Treating everyone equally when their needs are different, isn't fair, but few of us are likely to say that we should set out to create inequality. Freedom is essential, but when it's freedom to continue being unfair, it simply entrenches privilege which in turn promotes inequality. So we have to navigate a way forward that honours all three principles. We're never going to agree on the precise route, but if we agree that we want a society in which people are relatively free, that has low levels of inequality & in which people experience fairness, we're all going to have to talk about how that might be best achieved. It requires understanding and compromise. It requires tolerance, and ironically a determination to not tolerate intolerance. And it is likely to work best when we're prepared to look at the facts, at the evidence, and go with what works best for the common good. Unfortunately, what I see of US politics, and much of the politics here in the UK, is politicians who really don't give a shit about the common good, compromise and tolerance, but who are set on self-aggrandisement and self-interest (usually monetary self-interest), and imposing their ideas on others. The answer is to elect better politicians, but given the money involved in politics, and where power currently resides, our choices are likely to be limited.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5183 on: August 17, 2017, 02:16:32 pm »

Well, I have certain guiding principles, namely Freedom, Equality and Fairness. You can put them in any order you like because no one is more important than the other. If you fetishise one thing, you end up in a bad place. Treating everyone equally when their needs are different, isn't fair, but few of us are likely to say that we should set out to create inequality. Freedom is essential, but when it's freedom to continue being unfair, it simply entrenches privilege which in turn promotes inequality. So we have to navigate a way forward that honours all three principles. We're never going to agree on the precise route, but if we agree that we want a society in which people are relatively free, that has low levels of inequality & in which people experience fairness, we're all going to have to talk about how that might be best achieved. It requires understanding and compromise. It requires tolerance, and ironically a determination to not tolerate intolerance. And it is likely to work best when we're prepared to look at the facts, at the evidence, and go with what works best for the common good. Unfortunately, what I see of US politics, and much of the politics here in the UK, is politicians who really don't give a shit about the common good, compromise and tolerance, but who are set on self-aggrandisement and self-interest (usually monetary self-interest), and imposing their ideas on others. The answer is to elect better politicians, but given the money involved in politics, and where power currently resides, our choices are likely to be limited.

I agree with many of the principals you espouse.  Fortunately, in America, we have a very strong and respected constitution.  It protects individual liberties despite, or should I say because of the nastiness and self-centeredness of people and groups.  Of course, with freedom comes inequality.  It is these two conflicting principals that causes all the conflict in most societies.  All the arguments are about where to put the fences; where one starts and ends and the other begins.  Moving a society towards equality, like the Soviet Union tried and Cuba and NK still operate, means removal of freedoms and dictatorial governments.  Going the other way means high levels of freedom but with a chance some people will be unable to take care of themselves leaving them to live on the street.  Most countries have found a middle ground, including America and Britain.   We can argue how much should be Socialist and how much laissez-faire.  Frankly, I think America has reached a reasonable point. But then again, I'm retired and collecting Social Security and Medicare.  :)

jeremyrh

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5184 on: August 17, 2017, 02:42:10 pm »

On the subject of "rewriting history", this is an interesting account of something that has been alluded tp before on this board, that these confederate statues are not contemporaneous, and were erected later in pursuit of more modern  political ends.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/16/confederate-monuments-civil-war-history-trump?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5185 on: August 17, 2017, 03:40:24 pm »

Where does it end?

We are far from the end. It is just the beginning:

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/17/abraham-lincoln-monument-torched-in-chicago-an-abs/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

"Abraham Lincoln monument torched in Chicago"

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5186 on: August 17, 2017, 03:51:00 pm »

Where does it end?

We are far from the end. It is just the beginning:

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/17/abraham-lincoln-monument-torched-in-chicago-an-abs/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

"Abraham Lincoln monument torched in Chicago"

From my earlier post:

I'm afraid this is going to lead to pitched battles between different groups.  I don't think it's going to end well for the country. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5187 on: August 17, 2017, 03:57:36 pm »

Just for the record, Bill, I am against everything you posted above as a peddler's unicorn daydream. As most project managers would tell you, if you want it "fast, good, and cheap" pick two. Your "fairness" is particularly troublesome as life is inherently unfair.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5188 on: August 17, 2017, 04:54:16 pm »

Corker: Trump hasn't demonstrated the stability or competence to be successful



Quote
(CNN)Sen. Bob Corker slammed President Donald Trump's handling of the racially motivated protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, charging that the President "has not demonstrated he understands the character of this nation."

The Tennessee Republican told reporters in Chattanooga, Tennessee, on Thursday that he thinks there must be "radical changes" within the White House.

"The President has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability nor some of the competence that he needs to be successful," Corker said, according to a video posted by local news website Nooga.com.

"He has not demonstrated that he understands what has made this nation great and what it is today, and he's got to demonstrate the characteristics of a president who understands that," Corker added.

Then Barcelona...

The Donald tweets a reference to a fake story about U.S. Gen. John Pershing executing Muslim insurgents with bullets dipped in pig's blood...uh, what?

President Trump Praises Fake Story About Shooting Muslims With Pig's Blood-Soaked Bullets

Quote
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!
1:45 PM - Aug 17, 2017
 29,314 29,314 Replies    11,959 11,959 Retweets    39,213 39,213 likes

Quote
Hours after a deadly terror attack in Barcelona, President Donald Trump suggested that Islamic terrorists should be executed with bullets soaked in pig's blood, praising a discredited story of a 20th-century atrocity.

"Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught," Trump tweeted Thursday afternoon. "There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!"

The tweet referenced a false story that Trump told at rallies more than once on the campaign trail. Trump claimed that during the Moro rebellion in the Philippines between 1901 and 1913, U.S. Gen. John Pershing executed Muslim insurgents with bullets dipped in pig's blood. Trump's retelling of the myth has changed each time

His reality is dissolving before our eyes...
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5189 on: August 17, 2017, 04:57:52 pm »

Of course, with freedom comes inequality.

Potentially. It's why we shouldn't fetishise one above the other

Quote
Moving a society towards equality, like the Soviet Union tried and Cuba and NK still operate
That's a joke, right? The regimes in Soviet Russia and later the USSR were never much interested in equality. The same can be said about North Korea, and whilst Castro may have had such ideals regarding Cuba, he seems to have quickly given up on them.

Quote
Most countries have found a middle ground, including America and Britain.  We can argue how much should be Socialist and how much laissez-faire.  Frankly, I think America has reached a reasonable point. But then again, I'm retired and collecting Social Security and Medicare.  :)
Ah, those great socialist achievements of pensions, social security and socialised medicine, the latter some on the US Right would seek to deny to the less well-off. I trust you understand the irony of supporting a regime set on such a path.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5190 on: August 17, 2017, 04:58:12 pm »

How about  Barcelona reality?

Rob C

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5191 on: August 17, 2017, 05:09:07 pm »

"1.  Well, I have certain guiding principles, namely Freedom, Equality and Fairness. You can put them in any order you like because no one is more important than the other. If you fetishise one thing, you end up in a bad place. Treating everyone equally when their needs are different, isn't fair, but few of us are likely to say that we should set out to create inequality. Freedom is essential, 2.  but when it's freedom to continue being unfair, it simply entrenches privilege which in turn promotes inequality. So we have to navigate a way forward that honours all three principles. We're never going to agree on the precise route, but if we agree that we want a society in which people are relatively free, that has low levels of inequality & in which people experience fairness, we're all going to have to talk about how that might be best achieved. It requires understanding and compromise. It requires tolerance, and ironically a determination to not tolerate intolerance. And it is likely to work best when we're prepared to look at the facts, at the evidence, and go with what works best for the common good. Unfortunately, what I see of US politics, and 3.  much of the politics here in the UK, is politicians who really don't give a shit about the common good, compromise and tolerance, but who are set on self-aggrandisement and self-interest (usually monetary self-interest), and imposing their ideas on others. The answer is to elect better politicians, but given the money involved in politics, and where power currently resides, our choices are likely to be limited. "

Bill,

1.   That reads very well, but what the hell is fairness and, just as awkwardly, what equality?

These are socialist mantras I have heard since I became aware of political differences, but nobody I've asked has ever come up with a watertight explanation. There isn't one: these are all concepts that apply to games, to entities/workplaces with set rules and to competitive sports. These have no real application to the vastly more difficult and complex matter of life and making one's way through it.

I have no idea of how you earn your crust, but should you ever have run a business you wouldn't believe in these things as holy grails, because you'd have understood from the first day that no such guidelines exist in the real world of earning an independent living. There is no 'fair', there has never been 'equality'; these are daydreams that simply distract one from the grim reality that it life. If the working life consists of turning up, clocking a card at seven-thirty in the morning and later clocking back in after lunch (I'd done that for years before I left industry) then yes, you will have a strange, conditioned expectation that life runs - or should run - by the clock set, if not by your employer then by your favourite colour of government. Even if it were possible to force all of humanity to live by factory rules, you'd not have achieved any imaginary fairness: the foreman would always earn more than the drudge making the tea or the other one just turning out the widgets as he dreams of the holiday season. Neither would your notion of equality be any the more fulfilled by this, for the faster guy would produce more cash-value widgets per shift than you can, and as for freedom, hey, you left that at the factory gates and sold your soul to the shop steward when you joined the union which was perhaps compulsory in the first place, though such requirements are less common than they were.

2.   What do you mean by privilege? The dictionary offers one little group of meanings, but in common political parlance it's used to mean something quite else; in fact, that's being generous: it's really used to imply, to suggest some unspoken and guilty reason or factor that lends one person more success than another. The truth is that success comes from a million different factors, and is seldom based simply on some measureable quantity/quality of ability. It can be as much about your accent, your religion, your schoool, university or even on whether you have bad teeth or, worse, bad breath. Be a woman, and these things are multiplied many times over. Is that fair? What the hell is fair, I have to ask again; it's what it is and what it will always be: human interaction and reaction: do people just like to be around you? Twenty pretty girls turn up at a casting, only one will get the gig. I've had to do that many times, and I truly feel sorry for them, far more sorry than, it turns out, do they feel for themselves; on asking the 'chosen one' when out on trip with her, she said: we do several of these castings a day, sometimes; it's not getting called to the casting that's the problem, the fear. We all know there's only room for one or, perhaps, two on the actual gig.

So why pìck that one? They pretty all much all look equally good, but one may have a better 'book' to prove she has mileage, and that's vital for confidence: you want pictures from her, not a roll in the hay. Your client won't pay you for you to have your jollies, and won't pay you at all if the work sucks! Get confused over that and you won't last long.

So, does the top model create inequality? I use model as example because I know how that used to work; I guess you can interchange her with any other trade or business where personal characteristics come into play. Should all models be kicked out of work because the rest of the women may not match them for looks? (There are many pretty women around who wouldn't dream of doing what models have to do.) Political correctness would seem to suggest so; discrimination against beauty, then.

3.   Yes, and seldom has it been more obvious than in the way coats were turned over the Brexit mess. In fact, Cameron, to me, ended up being the most honest of them all: he fell upon his sword. The rest are shameless.

Money resides in all sorts of strange nooks; there are millionaire Socialist benefactors as there are Conservative ones; unions have an obvious agenda and it's not even hidden: they think it perfectly right that a collection of workmen, uncouth union officials, unemployed and unemployables should call the shots from Downing Street and represent Britain on the world stage; the people working for the 'state' are more than willing - usually - to vote for anyone at all who preaches the sanctity, untouchability and pretty pensions of public sector employees; no wonder that so few gave a shit about what was going to happen to the City and all that that means to the economy; borders in N. Ireland? Who cares? Let them all try to kill one another off again; northern, rust-belt Jack's all right! He hopes.

Do you think perhaps that the public sector heroes make for better managers of, and ambassadors for Britain than those with great backgrounds, wonderful breeding and worldwide connections of influence that can be used to British benefit? Yes, I'm sure there would be many fortunes enhanced en route, but at least the fucking train hauling us all behind it would be leaving the station!  As it is, I fear we'll end up rusted to the tracks in some old shed somewhere.

But Mr Trump. We do not seem to have anyone remotely as schizophrenic in UK politics -  all of ours seem to fly a single party (theirs) flag to which they pretty much adhere. The odd clement gesture is made to the other groupings at some stages, but all in all, you know where you stand with them and their beliefs - or you did, until the Scot Nats and then Brexit! That changed everything, and created a nation of headless chickens.

Rob

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5192 on: August 17, 2017, 05:16:15 pm »

Apparently Trump doesn't use a computer and only has one app on his phone so other than cable TV and the The President's Daily Brief (PDB) his other source of news and information is what he reads on his Twitter feed.

So, now you can see what Trump sees on Twitter...

Now you can see what Donald Trump sees every time he opens Twitter

Quote
For all of the work John Kelly has put into his new role as White House chief of staff, instituting new limits on whom President Trump speaks with and what information he sees, Trump has an escape hatch: his phone. Put limits on who can reach Trump at the White House? Fine, but then Trump just calls them from his cell later that night. Limit the data that lands on his desk? Great, until he fires up Twitter and sees whatever he wants to see. (Twitter, Axios reported in May, is the only app on his phone.)

It's really scary to see the echo chamber that the President of the United States lives in...

Quote
Users of Twitter will understand, however, that it can be tricky to know what someone else sees when he or she fires up the application. Everyone follows a different group of people, and that colors the information they receive.

To that end, we’ve created @trumps_feed, an account that checks whom Trump follows every five minutes and then retweets any new tweets from them over that period. The net result is a replication of what Trump would see on those occasions that he switches over from the Mentions tab.

It’s this. This is what Trump would see right now if he opened Twitter.

Tweets by ‎Trump's Feed Retweeted

Quote
Trump's Feed Retweeted
Newt Gingrich   ✔ @newtgingrich
Since Charlottesville 11 people killed and 40 wounded in Chicago, 5 killed in Baltimore, but at least the left can argue over statues

2h
 
 Trump's Feed Retweeted
DRUDGE REPORT @DRUDGE_REPORT
Plans abandoned for infrastructure council... https://bloom.bg/2v5RgMb

Photo published for Trump Abandons Plan for Council on Infrastructure
Trump Abandons Plan for Council on Infrastructure
President Donald Trump will not move forward with a planned Advisory Council on Infrastructure, a person familiar with the matter said Thursday.
bloomberg.com
30m
 
 Trump's Feed Retweeted
DRUDGE REPORT @DRUDGE_REPORT
CIA REACHES DEAL WITH ACLU OVER INTERROGATIONS... http://bit.ly/2v5T9ZD

40m
 
 Trump's Feed Retweeted
DRUDGE REPORT @DRUDGE_REPORT
Cars disappear into waves of foam as lake froths again... http://bit.ly/2v5oVG3

Photo published for Watch: Cars disappear into waves of foam as Bengaluru’s Bellandur Lake froths again
Watch: Cars disappear into waves of foam as Bengaluru’s Bellandur Lake froths again
Residents report ‘terrible stench’ as fresh frothing seems to turn the clock back on efforts to clean the lake that has been polluted by sewage and industrial waste
hindustantimes.com
40m
 
 Trump's Feed Retweeted
The White House   ✔ @WhiteHouse
Intern Series: Forgotten No Longer http://45.wh.gov/UPFERt

47m
 

This is the news feed that Trump uses to make decisions as the President...oh, boy, we're totally screwed.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5193 on: August 17, 2017, 07:20:54 pm »

Trump drops plan to create infrastructure council: White House
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-infrastructure-idUSKCN1AX2NS

QUOTE  August 17, 2017 / 10:50 PM  "[...] On Wednesday, Trump disbanded two high-profile advisory groups after several chief executives quit in protest over his remarks blaming violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, last weekend on anti-racism activists as well as white nationalists.

Trump said he dissolved the American Manufacturing Council and the Strategic and Policy Forum "rather than putting pressure" on its members, although both groups were preparing to disband on their own when Trump made his announcement on Twitter.

The snubs from chief executives raised questions about Trump's ability to marshal the business community behind his policy goals. [...]"



Alienating Senators and Top business CEOs doesn't seem like a good tactic for moving the economic agenda forward ...

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 07:25:35 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5194 on: August 17, 2017, 07:59:44 pm »

And, don't forget the Russian investigation quietly going on in the background...

Donald Trump Is a Lame-Duck President



Quote
Just seven months into his presidency, Trump appears to have achieved a status usually reserved for the final months of a term.

In many ways, the Trump presidency never got off the ground: The president’s legislative agenda is going nowhere, his relations with foreign leaders are frayed, and his approval rating with the American people never enjoyed the honeymoon period most newly elected presidents do. Pundits who are sympathetic toward, or even neutral on, the president keep hoping that the next personnel move—the appointment of White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, say, or the long-rumored-but-never-delivered departure of Steve Bannon—will finally get the White House in gear.

But what if they, and many other people, are thinking about it wrong? Maybe the reality is not that the Trump presidency has never gotten started. It’s that he’s already reached his lame-duck period. For most presidents, that comes in the last few months of a term. For Trump, it appears to have arrived early, just a few months into his term. The president did always brag that he was a fast learner.

Republican senators are striking back in Trump's public war of words
GOP Sen. Bob Corker
GOP Sen. Tim Scott
GOP Sen. Jeff Flake
GOP Sen. Cory Gardner
GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham
GOP Sen John McCain

And the GOP has a slim 2 vote majority...

Can anybody imagine a way for Trump to actually work with Congress on anything now? Trump is picking fights with his own GOP congressmen for the simple reason that pissed him off by not doing what Trump wanted then to do...MacCain who didn't vote for TrumpCare? Or that Senator from South Carolina that just wants publicity or that Trump's happy a wing nut is gonna run against Senator Jeff Flake.

Wow, just wow...each day brings more crap from his mouth or twitter feed...and somehow his supporters still support him?

I think that's changing...
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BobShaw

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5195 on: August 17, 2017, 08:35:15 pm »

Fortunately, in America, we have a very strong and respected constitution.
It is always interesting that the US Constitution and Freedom and Liberty are held up as some bastions of uniqueness. Every country probably has a constitution and most have freedom and liberty. Most constitutions probably cover how the government is made up and the rules for replacing the government. The elected government of the day is then tasked with making laws that suit the day. Constitutions do not generally have laws in them, because they are too hard to change if they become obsolete. The last amendment to the US constitution took 200 years to approve. So when you put say a gun law in a Constitution, you are probably stuck with it forever, regardless of how stupid it is and what it was originally designed to do.

Alan, I saw in separate posts somewhere in this 260 pages that you had not actually seen the Washington Monument or the Lincoln Memorial and you had been in the US some 60 years? I take it then that you have not been to your nation's capital? Not a personal attack, but I think that this is common in the US.

I haven't travelled a lot, but I have seen all states and capital cities in my country of Australia (same size as continental US), I have been to 4 continents, 28 countries, 14 states in the US and 4 provinces in Canada. My son who is 29 has seen some 80 countries. Australians travel a lot. These days young people in most countries travel a lot because they can work in most countries for two years on an Under 31 work visa.

We have also seen US television for 60 plus years. We saw Martin Luther King shot and we saw Rodney King bashed. In high school we studied other countries such as the US, Canada, USSR, European countries and of course UK as well as Australia. Most countries have similar global education. So you should not assume that people in other countries don't see or understand what is going on.

In contrast I was in the US (and Canada) for 5 weeks only recently. Almost all of the US people I spoke to had not seen as much of the US as I had. Some literally did not know where Australia was. I was speaking to a guy at Nashville airport before flying out. He was about 60 and wore a Confederate baseball cap. He had never been more than 200 miles from where he lived.

A big factor in prejudice is ignorance and lack of experience of things different to what you know. Unfortunately living standards and the standards of literacy, numeracy and general knowledge in the US appear to have slipped.

Yes, we have some minor racial issues in Australia. A quarter of Australians were born overseas. However my father was a boy in the early 1900's and black stockmen worked side by side with white stockmen on sheep stations. Chinese miners and all nationalities fought together at Eureka Stockade in 1854. Since WW2 we have had strong migrant immigration. Melbourne is the third largest Greek City in the world. My wife's family raised an Aboriginal girl. She was part of what some people like to call the "Stolen Generation" of Aboriginal people, (except that white children were also affected). However she was not stolen, she was dumped at a hospital by her parents because she was blind. That girl is now a university lecturer. So there are always two sides and the media reports what sells news.

Aboriginal people are more like native Americans in that they are first peoples. It is a totally different situation to the African American situation.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:38:13 pm by BobShaw »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5196 on: August 17, 2017, 09:38:03 pm »


Aboriginal people are more like native Americans in that they are first peoples. We did not sent in the Cavalry to wipe them out and it is a totally different situation to the African American situation.

What? 

List of Massacres of Indigenous Australians

Note at the top of the page, "Not included in this list of massacres is the breeding (eugenics) programs which institutionalised aboriginal survivors of whom most were assimilated into the "white" community after the established 3x rule, or three-generations of selective breeding."  Holy ... does that sound like some creepy program.  I have to wonder who dreamed that up. 

My point here is that many speak as if these problems only exist in the USA, but they are prevalent every where else in the world.  Let's not talk as if there is something wrong only with the USA here. 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 09:50:20 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5197 on: August 17, 2017, 10:02:26 pm »

And, don't forget the Russian investigation quietly going on in the background...

Donald Trump Is a Lame-Duck President



Republican senators are striking back in Trump's public war of words
GOP Sen. Bob Corker
GOP Sen. Tim Scott
GOP Sen. Jeff Flake
GOP Sen. Cory Gardner
GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham
GOP Sen John McCain

And the GOP has a slim 2 vote majority...

Can anybody imagine a way for Trump to actually work with Congress on anything now? Trump is picking fights with his own GOP congressmen for the simple reason that pissed him off by not doing what Trump wanted then to do...MacCain who didn't vote for TrumpCare? Or that Senator from South Carolina that just wants publicity or that Trump's happy a wing nut is gonna run against Senator Jeff Flake.

Wow, just wow...each day brings more crap from his mouth or twitter feed...and somehow his supporters still support him?

I think that's changing...

Take down that painting of George Washington.  After all, he owned a 100 slaves. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5198 on: August 17, 2017, 10:34:10 pm »

Corker: Trump hasn't demonstrated the stability or competence to be successful


Then Barcelona...

The Donald tweets a reference to a fake story about U.S. Gen. John Pershing executing Muslim insurgents with bullets dipped in pig's blood...uh, what?

President Trump Praises Fake Story About Shooting Muslims With Pig's Blood-Soaked Bullets

His reality is dissolving before our eyes...

84% of Republicans want to keep confederate memorials.  Of course, that will probably change with all the hoopla.  But the point is, Trump support for the memorials are in line with Republican voters.  Republican Senators and Congressman who go against him are walking on dangerous grounds.    The idea they would try to impeach him over disagreements on policy is a pipe dream.   After all, he throws loyal allies under the bus. He wouldn't think twice about bad-mouthing a Republican in a State nomination process.  Any republican up for re=election has to be careful.  In the end, both sides need each other.  Trump wants bills passed to fulfill his promises.  And Republican legislators have to pass bills if they want to be re-elected.  As someone said during the American Revolution that the American patriots will "...have to all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately,"

BobShaw

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5199 on: August 17, 2017, 10:43:39 pm »

Let's not talk as if there is something wrong only with the USA here.
Ok. Deleted the bit from the 19th century. Lets talk about the present day.
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