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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918391 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4760 on: August 07, 2017, 10:02:15 am »

Jimmying the numbers: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/06/trump-fcc-sinclair-broadcast-expansion-241337?lo=ap_d1.

We used to think that competition was good, there were even anti-trust laws in place to prevent corporate concentration.
90% of media is currently liberal, socialist and Democrat leaning.  So anything that adds some more conservative reporting that's good for Republicans is good in my book. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4761 on: August 07, 2017, 10:25:46 am »

There are all sorts of leaks, for all sorts of reasons (some intentional). That has nothing to do with the free media and their right to keep their sources undisclosed, otherwise, their work would become impossible because sources would dry up (which is part of Session's game plan). The leaking is also a direct result of worried White House staffers, worried about the destruction around them. Action --> reaction, less worries --> less leaking.

BTW, I'm still wondering whether the information that Trump leaked to the Russian visitors (no WH staff nor photographer around to leak what really happened), was properly declassified before being shared. The Israelian secret services are still not pleased about him compromising their assets. While a President can disclose such information, he/she can only do so after formally declassifying it, not before, according to my information.

Cheers,
Bart
You got it wrong again on both issues.  The Supreme Court has ruled that the 1st Amendment protection for a "free press" does not protect reporters from keeping secret the names of leakers of classified information.  Reporters have gone to jail for being in contempt of court for not revealing their sources.   Leaking of conversations that aren't classified are another matter.  That goes on all the time and is the bread and butter of news reporting.  Unfortunately, the news media has lost trust.  So claims about information from un-name" and "confidential" sources have grown more suspect in their truthfulness.   A lot of it is BS and only political in nature to hurt one side or the other.

Regarding classified information, the President as chief executive, decides what materials should be classified or declassified.  Otherwise, a subordinate would have authority over the president in deciding what's to be classified, a silly proposition. 

"Top Secret" information is often released for international political effect.  For example, let's say the CIA has discovered Iran is manufacturing plutonium against the agreement.  That information would be classified by the CIA as "Top Secret".  But the President at a news conference, or in a tweet, where he wants to put pressure on Iran to agree to more inspections or impress the UN to add sanctions announces that we know what they're up too.  The president in effect, de-classifies that information.  The whole world now knows that we know.  What he did is perfectly legal. 

Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4762 on: August 07, 2017, 12:08:00 pm »

"Top Secret" information is often released for international political effect.    For example, let's say the CIA has discovered Iran is manufacturing plutonium against the agreement.  That information would be classified by the CIA as "Top Secret".

It might, but often there is a distinction between the need to protect the substance of the information and the need to protect the source of the information or the way it was obtained.  In your hypothetical, the substantive information—that Iran was manufacturing plutonium—might well be classified at a level lower than "Top Secret," or arguably even not classified at all.  Precisely how the CIA obtained the information probably would be classified as "Top Secret," and subject to additional special handling restrictions, as well.

I suspect most intentional public disclosures of the kind you are referring to involve information classified at the "Confidential" or "Secret" levels.  One exception that comes to mind is Kennedy's disclosure of the aerial reconnaissance photos of the Soviet missile sites in Cuba; unless they were manipulated to conceal the detail in the original image captures, they would almost certainly have been classified "Top Secret"—and no doubt subject to additional restrictions—because the images themselves conveyed information about a sensitive source.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4763 on: August 07, 2017, 12:34:27 pm »

But the president still controls what is declassified or not.

Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4764 on: August 07, 2017, 12:43:14 pm »

But the president still controls what is declassified or not.

The president as well as a number of other officials.  See Part 3 of Executive Order 13526 for the specifics of the declassification and downgrading process.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4765 on: August 07, 2017, 01:11:12 pm »

But the president still controls what is declassified or not.

I sincerely hope that's not strictly true. Not a good idea to place too much power in a single person's hands.
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4766 on: August 07, 2017, 01:12:06 pm »

90% of media is currently liberal, socialist and Democrat leaning.  So anything that adds some more conservative reporting that's good for Republicans is good in my book.

90%? Socialist?  You crack me up sometimes.
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Robert

Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4767 on: August 07, 2017, 01:34:28 pm »

I sincerely hope that's not strictly true. Not a good idea to place too much power in a single person's hands.

The president has what is called Original Classification Authority when it comes to information generated by the United States.  This means that he does have the authority to classify information (within some legal limitations) and declassify information.  However, this classification/declassification is not done casually in a conversation.  The president has to issue a classification/Declassification Decision (or in some cases classification/Declassification Order) formally documenting the information that is being classified/declassified, the reason why it is being classified/declassified and to formally start a policy review effort to determine if the classification/declassification of this specific information conflicts or adversely affects other information.

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4768 on: August 07, 2017, 01:36:02 pm »

He blamed it on an overwhelmingly majority and blinding support of Clinton by the media, causing a bias and for them to ignore anything that disputed their opinions, and our country's seriously inapt ability in mathematics. 

I certainly agree with the second part of the theory, and the first would sense as well.

Yes, makes sense. The number of votes required to swing things one way or the other is so small, you would think that they would spend more time looking at the measurement errors. But that's par for the course for the daily news cycle though. Carefully considered thought is not what it's about, and anyway I suspect not many people go looking for long complicated analyses.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4769 on: August 07, 2017, 02:42:03 pm »

90%? Socialist?  You crack me up sometimes.
Ok.  I'll change my sentence.

90% of media is currently liberal, socialist AND/OR Democrat leaning.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4770 on: August 07, 2017, 02:44:08 pm »

The president has what is called Original Classification Authority when it comes to information generated by the United States.  This means that he does have the authority to classify information (within some legal limitations) and declassify information.  However, this classification/declassification is not done casually in a conversation.  The president has to issue a classification/Declassification Decision (or in some cases classification/Declassification Order) formally documenting the information that is being classified/declassified, the reason why it is being classified/declassified and to formally start a policy review effort to determine if the classification/declassification of this specific information conflicts or adversely affects other information.


Where can I find these requirements?

Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4771 on: August 07, 2017, 02:53:57 pm »

Where can I find these requirements?

I believe the latest is Executive Order 13526
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4772 on: August 07, 2017, 03:25:25 pm »

I believe the latest is Executive Order 13526
Executive Orders's are issued by presidents so they can be modified at any time by the president oo subsequent presidents.    In any case,  you don't think that President Obama who signed the EO limited his own authority, do you?   If his subordinates like the Director of theCIA can declassify in his supervisory role,  certainly his supervisor the president can  declassify.   Alll the secretaries and directors of theCIA, Department of State, Department of Defense,  NSA, etc work for the president.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4773 on: August 07, 2017, 06:27:00 pm »

U.S. Interior Department rescinds coal valuation rule
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-interior-coal-idUSKBN1AN2F7

QUOTE  August 7, 2017 / 11:01 PM  "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of the Interior said on Monday it has rescinded an Obama-era rule that reformed how energy companies value sales of oil, gas and coal extracted from federal and tribal land to protect taxpayers because it caused "confusion and uncertainty" for energy companies.

Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke said the department's newly formed royalty policy committee would propose alternatives to the rule and "remain committed to collecting every dollar due."

"Repealing the valuation rule provides a clean slate to create workable valuation regulations," Zinke said in a statement.

The valuation rule was proposed by former Interior Secretary Sally Jewell last year to close a loophole that enabled companies to dodge royalty payments when mining on taxpayer-owned public land.
[...]
Meanwhile, the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis, a taxpayer watchdog group, found that taxpayers missed out on nearly $30 billion in revenues over three decades because of the loophole."



More money to Trump's cronies, less to the actual taxpayers. Guess the American people get what they voted for, less education, less healthcare, etc.

Cheers,
Bart
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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4774 on: August 07, 2017, 07:30:14 pm »

Never mind the resurrection of coal miner jobs, or a tax reform, Trump acted pretty quickly where it counts most. He reduced substantially the fines for the financial industry.

Quote
Federal regulators have fined financial firms significantly less under the first six months of President Trump’s tenure compared to the first six months of 2016, President Barack Obama’s final year in office, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.

The Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority levied two-thirds fewer fines ($489 million) in the first half of 2017 compared with the first half of 2016 ($1.4 billion). That’s on track for the lowest annual level of fines since at least 2010.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/345606-financial-regulators-issue-fewer-fines-under-trump-report
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Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4775 on: August 07, 2017, 08:22:33 pm »

Whether we like it or not, banking makes the world go round. 

Did you know banks create money?  Yes, that is right, lending and interest gained is what increases values and creates money. 

(Now before you say that countries' actually create their own money, they don't.  The print/mint currency that is a physical representation of money, but that is not money.  If you disagree, ask yourself why is there about 10x more wealth in USA dollars then currency to represent it?)

But anyway, I truly believe that congresses' overreach in 2009 with the financial industry is what is holding our economy back.  I don't agree with all deregulation (especially environmental), but I think Dodd-Frank did much more harm then good and these regulations need to stop.

Credit creation is the process you describe above.  It's not the interest gained, but in a closed system when you lend money, some of that money ends up being deposited again and then the banks can lend it again.  The credit creation ratio is important and the value of it forms part of the money in an economy.  By controlling capital adequacy ratios, governments can control credit creation (also through other means such as interest rates but that is indirect control).

Your second point isn't really right.  Currency is a part of broad money which includes other things of value in the economy such as bank deposits and other representations of value typically with a maturity not longer than 2 years.  There are numerous definitions of money to suit different needs, but they all include the notes and coins (cash) in the economy which is real money.  What that money is worth compared to other currencies or in terms of buy power changes such that just printing more money simply increase inflation (quantitative easing, as it has been know since the GFC, is literally the act of creating more cash and therefore more money in the economy and therefore reducing the value of the money - if money is less valuable you pay less for it - lower interest rates.  You also enable inflation to stop stagnation of an economy in a super low (or even negative) interest rate environment).

And, contrary to your view of over regulation, it was strong prudential controls that largely saw Australia avoid the GFC in the sense that we didn't go into recession because our major banks were financially sound.  Our last recessions ended in the September quarter of 1991 - just coming up on 26 years ago.  How you control and regulate your banks is a worthy discussion, but suggestions that you need to deregulate to help the economy is demonstrably false in the long term.  That doesn't mean you need excessive controls and regulations, but you need banks to be kept within a reasonable bound because they're not just "another business" - they're in fact the core of all business and financial activities and have a role beyond that of a simple commercial enterprise.
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Phil Brown

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4776 on: August 07, 2017, 10:32:55 pm »

Meh - it wasn't clear what you were saying about money, so I clarified.

Regarding regulation.  Let's be clear.  The underlying single cause of the GFC was a lack of regulation of banking in the United States.  All other factors and operational causes stem from that.  Perhaps things have gone further than they needed, but that's not what's holding back your economy.  Primarily those causes are hyper political partisanship and crippling government debt.
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Phil Brown

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4777 on: August 07, 2017, 11:22:18 pm »

U.S. Interior Department rescinds coal valuation rule
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-interior-coal-idUSKBN1AN2F7

QUOTE  August 7, 2017 / 11:01 PM  "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of the Interior said on Monday it has rescinded an Obama-era rule that reformed how energy companies value sales of oil, gas and coal extracted from federal and tribal land to protect taxpayers because it caused "confusion and uncertainty" for energy companies.

Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke said the department's newly formed royalty policy committee would propose alternatives to the rule and "remain committed to collecting every dollar due."

"Repealing the valuation rule provides a clean slate to create workable valuation regulations," Zinke said in a statement.

The valuation rule was proposed by former Interior Secretary Sally Jewell last year to close a loophole that enabled companies to dodge royalty payments when mining on taxpayer-owned public land.
[...]
Meanwhile, the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis, a taxpayer watchdog group, found that taxpayers missed out on nearly $30 billion in revenues over three decades because of the loophole."



More money to Trump's cronies, less to the actual taxpayers. Guess the American people get what they voted for, less education, less healthcare, etc.

Cheers,
Bart
I always appreciate when a foreigner is concerned about the American taxpayer.  Thanks.

Just to clarify a point though.  Trump won election promising to bring back jobs to coal miners and supporting the coal industry and other deplorables.  What Trump did was to reverse a rule instituted by Obama before he left office.  Obama's rule would made coal production less viable.  In effect, the rule would help destroy the coal industry which Obama wanted to do and which Hillary spit on as well. 

Trump's reversal of the rule is just fulfilling a promise he made to the voters in the coal states that won him the presidency.  I'm sure in 4 years he'll go back to those coal miners and ask for their vote again reminding them how he went to bat for them as president.  Elections have consequences.   

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4778 on: August 07, 2017, 11:44:58 pm »

Never mind the resurrection of coal miner jobs, or a tax reform, Trump acted pretty quickly where it counts most. He reduced substantially the fines for the financial industry.
Quote
Federal regulators have fined financial firms significantly less under the first six months of President Trump’s tenure compared to the first six months of 2016, President Barack Obama’s final year in office, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.

The Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority levied two-thirds fewer fines ($489 million) in the first half of 2017 compared with the first half of 2016 ($1.4 billion). That’s on track for the lowest annual level of fines since at least 2010.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/345606-financial-regulators-issue-fewer-fines-under-trump-report
So it took Obama until 2016, 8 years after the crisis to actually fine a few banks. $1.6 billion is pennies on the dollar for what the Fed gave them back in free money. No one went to jail.   May I remind you, that the Fed re-imbursed all the banks by bailing them out.  So many would have gone bankrupt.  Not only were the bankers bailed out, but they were rewarded with more money than ever before making them bigger then ever before.  The bankers are richer after Obama's terms then they were back when Bush was President. 

So appreciative were the financiers and bankers for his hands off approach during his eight years, Obama was awarded after his presidency with a $400,000 for a speech he gave to Wall Street.  Just like Hillary.  What a pair!

It's that BS, the inside the Beltway to Wall Street, incestuous relationship that helped Trump in the election. His let's clean the swamp mantra worked as million of his voters understood they were screwed for 8 years while the usual suspects lined their pockets. 

scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4779 on: August 08, 2017, 10:00:38 am »

for the specifics of the declassification and downgrading process.
no executive order limits the sitting president's authority - only constitution & laws... executive order is only for those who are below him  ;D ... so president can say whatever he wants on the spot, not matter how bad it is and regardless of what executive orders mandate for his subordinates
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