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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918107 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4740 on: August 06, 2017, 04:16:40 pm »

... One complaint was that Tillerson stopped the  hiring of spouses of state department staff.  That nepotism is part of the Washington swamp...

As someone who actually worked for the State Dept., allow me a comment: hardly nepotism or swamp. The policy makes perfect sense, as already explained in the referenced article. These days, having two breadwinners in a family is more of a necessity than luxury. Asking someone to move to a different country means that their spouse must quit their job and career to accompany them. Even with the current policy in place, those spousal jobs are hardly a proper replacement, as they tend to be lower level and less paid than what one had at home, not to mention a break in a career. This isn't just State Dept., a lot of businesses do the same, when they want to relocate existing staff (or attract new) to less desirable locations, as I am sure Mr. Tillerson is aware. My former general manager at an American company said he is not going to move from the States to Russia unless his wife is also given a job there. And frankly, if I were today in the same situation, I would expect my company to do the same.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4741 on: August 06, 2017, 04:44:39 pm »

As someone who actually worked for the State Dept., allow me a comment: hardly nepotism or swamp. The policy makes perfect sense, as already explained in the referenced article. These days, having two breadwinners in a family is more of a necessity than luxury. Asking someone to move to a different country means that their spouse must quit their job and career to accompany them. Even with the current policy in place, those spousal jobs are hardly a proper replacement, as they tend to be lower level and less paid than what one had at home, not to mention a break in a career. This isn't just State Dept., a lot of businesses do the same, when they want to relocate existing staff (or attract new) to less desirable locations, as I am sure Mr. Tillerson is aware. My former general manager at an American company said he is not going to move from the States to Russia unless his wife is also given a job there. And frankly, if I were today in the same situation, I would expect my company to do the same.
The optics are terrible for a President who said he wants to clean up the Washington swamp.  First off, what a private company does is different than what a public tax supporting government agency does.  Second, the idea that the taxpayers should find a job for a spouse to increase the take-home pay for the diplomat just stinks regardless of the arguments you make.  There are already supplemental payments for serving overseas, danger pay (it's 35% extra serving in Kabul and Baghdad the two cities mentioned in the article) , size of family payments, etc.  That's similar to what the military overseas gets, actually less as combat pay is less than 35%.)    Why should the State Department be different.  Are we suppose to find a job for every spouse of every secretary or diplomat who works overseas?  Can you imagine what the New York Times would say if he continued that policy,  They'd claim he's betraying his supporters.  Well, of course we know anything he does they would come up with a way why he's bad so much do they want to destroy him.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4742 on: August 06, 2017, 04:48:23 pm »

I wasn't going to chime in on this, but can you appreciate the irony of complaining about nepotism in the era of the Trump family white house?
Trump's family members do not take a salary.

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4743 on: August 06, 2017, 05:23:46 pm »

Trump's family members do not take a salary.

At least they're being paid commensurate with their experience, then.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4744 on: August 06, 2017, 05:49:40 pm »

I think this really comes down to keeping good employees with little cost, vs. hiring new employees that need training and vetting for a few months. 

If keeping the good employees means finding jobs for spouses while at the same time avoiding the cost of training, then why not?
Joe, anyway you cut it, it smacks of nepotism and politically it has terrible optics.  If Trump continues this policy, you know the NY Times' next article will be headlined, "Trump and Tillerson Continue Nepotism in State Department - Reversing Promises Made to Supporters to Drain the Swamp".   

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4745 on: August 06, 2017, 06:56:50 pm »

...Anyway you slice it though, it's good employee retention.  I always regret the first day using someone new, even though it is a necessary evil. 

Yeah, I can see Trump's campaign slogan for 2020: "Keep Making America Great - I'm already trained.  And so are my children."

Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4746 on: August 06, 2017, 08:37:11 pm »

I read the article in full as well, and although those quotes are out of context here, their meaning is changed little within the article.

Quite.  The problem is that the quotation out-of-context entirely misses Douthat's point.  It's like a short blurb yanked out of a review panning a movie that gives an impression quite the opposite of what the critic intended.

I would encourage anyone interested in current American conservative thinking to read more of Douthat's stuff.  I've never met the guy, and I certainly don't consider myself a conservative by any means, nor a liberal ("progressive"), for that matter—I'm skeptical of doctrine of any flavor—but I find many of his columns to be nuanced and quite provocative.  He is essentially a direct lineal descendant of the William F. Buckley line of libertarian Christian conservatism.  His writing seems to have quite a strong following among political intellectuals who otherwise would be considered to be left-wing.  Hence the interest in him by publications such as Mother Jones.

Alternatively, you could navigate over to the Breitbart site.  If so, may Ronald Reagan have mercy on your soul.

Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4747 on: August 06, 2017, 11:06:43 pm »

I am also failing to understand what you meant by "quite."  Did you agree with me

Yes.  I was agreeing that the quote accurately reflected Douthat's argument regarding the second obstacle to immigration reform.  (The first being that "the Cotton-Perdue proposal is associated with a president whose ascent was darkened by race-baiting, and whose ability to broker any deal is seriously in doubt.")

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4748 on: August 06, 2017, 11:14:14 pm »

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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4749 on: August 06, 2017, 11:18:57 pm »

Congress should focus on tax reform first.  A better economy will make immigration and health care reform easier.   

LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4750 on: August 06, 2017, 11:57:35 pm »

Congress should focus on tax reform first.  A better economy will make immigration and health care reform easier.

I'm surprised the government isn't doing anything in the tax reform. It could be done easily in stages. Let the technology companies bring their overseas stash home, that should be very simple. Then address the other loopholes.
According to Moody's estimate from the last year:

Quote
Large American corporations held an estimated $1.3 trillion in cash reserves overseas in 2016, out of reach from the IRS. The five companies holding the largest cash reserves overseas are in the technology sector, and four are based in Silicon Valley: Apple, Alphabet, Cisco and Oracle. Washington-based Microsoft rounds out the list. Together,these five companies alone held $505 billion in foreign cash reserves

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2016/11/04/how-much-cash-do-these-5-companies-have-stashed.html

That amount will be even higher this year.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4751 on: August 07, 2017, 12:18:42 am »

Quite.  The problem is that the quotation out-of-context entirely misses Douthat's point.  It's like a short blurb yanked out of a review panning a movie that gives an impression quite the opposite of what the critic intended...

Oh, please, stop whining!

Exactly how is what I quoted "out of context'? How does it "entirely miss his point"? And how is it "quite the opposite of what he intended"?

Once again, state what you think is his point, instead of whining.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4752 on: August 07, 2017, 09:05:39 am »

An article about the "leaky" media: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/05/sessions-leaks-media-attack-worse-thank-you-think-215465?lo=ap_d1.

Excellent analysis of the insidious games that are being played on the (gullible) general public.

Cheers,
Bart
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4753 on: August 07, 2017, 09:24:28 am »

I'm surprised the government isn't doing anything in the tax reform.

They are too busy dismantling/repealing previous governments' achievements. That is fully in line with Steve Bannon's intent.

Not much constructive work gets done, it's mostly destructive. Lots of unfilled vacancies as well.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4754 on: August 07, 2017, 09:24:42 am »

Excellent analysis of the insidious games that are being played on the (gullible) general public.

Cheers,
Bart
Sessions was addressing two issues with leaks, some of them overlap.  When classified information is leaked, it directly hurts the security of the country.  That's one type of leak.  The other leak relates to confidential discussions that may or may not be classified but would damage America's ability to conduct foreign affairs if leaked.  For example, how would your Prime Minister feel if his private conversation with the President about relations between America and the Netherlands were printed word for word in the next morning's newspaper.  Foreign leaders would not want to talk to the American government about important matters.  We couldn't conduct affairs between us.  That hurts relations between our countries and could have security implications, as well. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4755 on: August 07, 2017, 09:30:24 am »

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4756 on: August 07, 2017, 09:35:28 am »

Jimmying the numbers: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/06/trump-fcc-sinclair-broadcast-expansion-241337?lo=ap_d1.

We used to think that competition was good, there were even anti-trust laws in place to prevent corporate concentration.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4757 on: August 07, 2017, 09:39:23 am »

They are too busy dismantling/repealing previous governments' achievements. That is fully in line with Steve Bannon's intent.

Not much constructive work gets done, it's mostly destructive. Lots of unfilled vacancies as well.

Cheers,
Bart
The people who voted for Trump thought that many of Obama's actions were destructive, not constructive as you imply.   If Obama wanted to secure those so-called "achievements", he should have had Congress enact them by legislation as required by our Constitution.  He's wasn't a king.   Because he thought he was, and thought he could get away with it especially since he expected fellow Democrat Clinton to win, he took the easy way.  But the electorate said "no" and elected a president who's campaign was to reverse those unilateral actions. 


Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4758 on: August 07, 2017, 09:43:22 am »

Sessions was addressing two issues with leaks, some of them overlap.  When classified information is leaked, it directly hurts the security of the country.  That's one type of leak.  The other leak relates to confidential discussions that may or may not be classified but would damage America's ability to conduct foreign affairs if leaked.  For example, how would your Prime Minister feel if his private conversation with the President about relations between America and the Netherlands were printed word for word in the next morning's newspaper.  Foreign leaders would not want to talk to the American government about important matters.  We couldn't conduct affairs between us.  That hurts relations between our countries and could have security implications, as well.

There are all sorts of leaks, for all sorts of reasons (some intentional). That has nothing to do with the free media and their right to keep their sources undisclosed, otherwise, their work would become impossible because sources would dry up (which is part of Session's game plan). The leaking is also a direct result of worried White House staffers, worried about the destruction around them. Action --> reaction, less worries --> less leaking.

BTW, I'm still wondering whether the information that Trump leaked to the Russian visitors (no WH staff nor photographer around to leak what really happened), was properly declassified before being shared. The Israelian secret services are still not pleased about him compromising their assets. While a President can disclose such information, he/she can only do so after formally declassifying it, not before, according to my information.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4759 on: August 07, 2017, 09:59:44 am »

Trade deals are complex: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/07/trump-tpp-deal-withdrawal-trade-effects-215459.
With or without trade deals, if foreign countries want to sell their products to America, which all do, then they'll have to reduce tariffs on American goods sold in their countries.  Trump wants to negotiate with countries separately because he feels that TPP hurts American workers while helping large multinationals.  Maybe he could modify TPP to include more protection for workers.  Who knows?  Frankly, I think the American standard of living is going to shrink regardless of what happens. 
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