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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918375 times)

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3940 on: June 28, 2017, 07:06:45 pm »

The 9-0 SCOTUS ruling pretty strongly backed the president's right to exclude aliens with no relationship to America.  They're not going to  change their minds when they fully consider the whole case  That part is baked in stone.  You're just trying to undermine the "win" Trump received from SCOTUS.     

No, it didn't.  It literally did not deal with that issue at all.  It only dealt with whether or not the lower court examined the issue sufficiently, and SCotUS said "no" at the level of aliens without ties.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3941 on: June 28, 2017, 08:02:18 pm »

No, it didn't.  It literally did not deal with that issue at all.  It only dealt with whether or not the lower court examined the issue sufficiently, and SCotUS said "no" at the level of aliens without ties.

You're quite correct: the Supreme Court did not address the issue of Trump's authority at all.  The Court simply agreed to address that issue later this year, in its next term, which begins in October.

It also modified the preliminary injunction that has been preventing the Trump Administration from carrying out the executive order.

Under U.S. law, a preliminary injunction is a rather rarely granted restriction on the behavior of a party to a lawsuit that is only issued when a court determines that the adverse party (in this case, the plaintiffs who are challenging the Trump executive order) is likely to prevail when the case goes to trial.

The Supreme Court concluded that the preliminary injunction issued against the Trump Administration was excessively broad—that it could not apply to aliens who had no connection to people or institutions within the United States because the U.S. government has no jurisdiction over them.  So it scaled it back.

Significantly, the Court did not lift the preliminary injunction altogether (three Justices dissented from that part of the opinion), which indicates that six Justices accepted the conclusion that the plaintiffs challenging Trump's executive order were likely to prevail at trial.  At least for now.

However, as I said in an earlier post, I wouldn't infer that the Supreme Court will ultimately rule against the Trump Administration.  The Justices tend to defer to lower court decisions regarding issues such as the applicability of injunctive relief until they can hear and consider full arguments.

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3942 on: June 28, 2017, 08:26:00 pm »

You're quite correct: the Supreme Court did not address the issue of Trump's authority at all.  The Court simply agreed to address that issue later this year, in its next term, which begins in October.

It also modified the preliminary injunction that has been preventing the Trump Administration from carrying out the executive order.

Under U.S. law, a preliminary injunction is a rather rarely granted restriction on the behavior of a party to a lawsuit that is only issued when a court determines that the adverse party (in this case, the plaintiffs who are challenging the Trump executive order) is likely to prevail when the case goes to trial.

The Supreme Court concluded that the preliminary injunction issued against the Trump Administration was excessively broad—that it could not apply to aliens who had no connection to people or institutions within the United States because the U.S. government has no jurisdiction over them.  So it scaled it back.

Significantly, the Court did not lift the preliminary injunction altogether (three Justices dissented from that part of the opinion)...

Possibly more notable for the fact that it establishes Gorsuch as another ideologue that will grossly misapply "originalist" ideas in the pursuit of radically conservative findings (when it suits his personal leanings).  Yippee.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3943 on: June 28, 2017, 10:40:13 pm »

...The Supreme Court concluded that the preliminary injunction issued against the Trump Administration was excessively broad—that it could not apply to aliens who had no connection to people or institutions within the United States because the U.S. government has no jurisdiction over them.  So it scaled it back...
That's what I said.  It allowed Trump to exclude aliens without ties to America.   Since the 90 day ban will be up, this point will become moot. However, I think there will be a challenge to the new vetting procedure.  That's because Trump is going to make it onerous to show his supporters he's continuing to keep America safe.  Then at some point SCOTUS will have to rule on the President's authority to control alien entry to the country using the new vetting procedure.  SCOTUS will find that as long as the alien has no close connections, then the vetting procedure is constitutional.  I say that based on their current ruling on the preliminary injunction. 

Think about this as an aside.  The president could once order the execution of a foreign national overseas.  There are new rules proscribing these that I'm not familiar with off hand.  However, if he had that authority, he certainly should have the authority to keep foreign nationals out of the US.  Which of course raises the issue three of the Justices raised saying that the president had the right to keep all aliens out including those with close ties to Americans.  How can the president be allowed to kill but not exclude? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3944 on: June 28, 2017, 10:47:22 pm »

Possibly more notable for the fact that it establishes Gorsuch as another ideologue that will grossly misapply "originalist" ideas in the pursuit of radically conservative findings (when it suits his personal leanings).  Yippee.
There's nothing in the Constitution that protects foreign nationals.  If tomorrow, the President feels it might be dangerous to allow North Koreans into our country, why should we let them in?  Congress had given authority to the president to make those determinations.   What rights do North Koreans have in America?  That's what Gorsuch, Alito and Thomas basically said.  The fact they have a kin here already should not be the determinant.  SCOTUS could still rule that way.

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3945 on: June 28, 2017, 11:04:24 pm »

There's nothing in the Constitution that protects foreign nationals.  If tomorrow, the President feels it might be dangerous to allow North Koreans into our country, why should we let them in?  Congress had given authority to the president to make those determinations.   What rights do North Koreans have in America?  That's what Gorsuch, Alito and Thomas basically said.  The fact they have a kin here already should not be the determinant.  SCOTUS could still rule that way.

If only it weren't so damn inconvenient to apply  those great words about "all men" and their "inalienable rights" to, well, all men.  And women.  Honestly Alan, I've got no issue with you individually, but I hold your right to life, liberty and property in no greater (or lesser) regard than that of a guy from Germany, Mexico or Iran. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3946 on: June 29, 2017, 12:00:59 am »

If only it weren't so damn inconvenient to apply  those great words about "all men" and their "inalienable rights" to, well, all men.  And women.  Honestly Alan, I've got no issue with you individually, but I hold your right to life, liberty and property in no greater (or lesser) regard than that of a guy from Germany, Mexico or Iran. 
  My point is not to say that before God we all aren't equal.  We are.  But all people aren't equal according to the US Constitution in the same way as Americans would not be to other countries.

There are a lot of people in the world who would love to have an American passport. However, they cannot enter the US like an American citizen because they don't have one.   Germans can't apply for monetary benefits like Medicare.  If Mexicans visit us, they will be treated pretty much like an American in courts regarding protecting their life, liberty and property as they should be.  But they have to go home at some point.  They can't stay although it seems with all the illegals we have here, that really is a moot issue. 

But the point I was making was that foreigners don't have the same legal standing.  If Congress declares war against their country, there's nothing protecting those individuals from being killed. If Congress wants to exclude certain countries from getting American VISAs to visit us, they have few rights to protest.   But that's no different then any other country.  Americans are exposed in the same way in return.   Your theory about inalienable rights stop at the American border as it does at other country's borders for their citizens.  Your wrong if you think it's otherwise.  We aren't a one world government.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3947 on: June 29, 2017, 12:04:17 am »

If only it weren't so damn inconvenient to apply  those great words about "all men" and their "inalienable rights" to, well, all men.  And women.  Honestly Alan, I've got no issue with you individually, but I hold your right to life, liberty and property in no greater (or lesser) regard than that of a guy from Germany, Mexico or Iran. 

"Proletarians of all countries, unite!" - Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3948 on: June 29, 2017, 12:51:33 am »

‘Internet Taxes’?
Take that, #AmazonWashingtonPost

Trump, Amazon and 'internet taxes': The real story



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President Trump has resumed his long fight with Amazon and its founder Jeff Bezos. But his latest attack has left experts scratching their heads.

"The #AmazonWashingtonPost, sometimes referred to as the guardian of Amazon not paying internet taxes (which they should) is FAKE NEWS!" Trump said on Twitter early Wednesday.

The post contains multiple erroneous or misleading claims. The Washington Post is not owned by Amazon (AMZN, Tech30), but rather by Bezos personally. It's also unclear what Trump means by internet taxes.

"There is no 'internet tax,'" says Michael Pachter, an analyst who covers Amazon and other internet companies for Wedbush. There is only a sales tax for e-commerce companies like Amazon.

If Trump is actually claiming Amazon doesn't pay sales taxes, then he's right -- but only if you stopped following the news years ago. The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Amazon often came under fire in its early years for not collecting taxes, giving it a leg up on bricks-and-mortar competitors. Amazon was able to get around these taxes thanks to a Supreme Court decision that said states can only force retailers to collect taxes if they have a physical presence.

In recent years, however, Amazon has gone in the opposite direction as it opens physical stores and fulfillment centers across the country. Amazon now collects sales taxes in every state that has a sales tax.

It's 2017 Donny...
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3949 on: June 29, 2017, 01:00:58 am »

Wonder which poll is correct?

Fox News Poll: 27 percent favor Senate GOP health care plan, as vote gets delayed

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By two-to-one, American voters oppose the Senate health care bill to replace the Affordable Care Act -- even as a majority wants to repeal at least some of the existing law.

That’s according to the latest Fox News Poll, conducted Sunday through Tuesday evenings.

Among Republicans, 51 percent favor the Senate bill.  That’s in contrast to 75 percent support for the House bill last month.

Overall, 27 percent of voters favor the Senate proposal, 54 percent oppose it, and 18 percent are unsure.  For comparison, in polling conducted after the House health care bill passed, 40 percent favored it and 54 percent were opposed (May 2017).  That’s the plan President Trump has called “mean.”

Or this poll...

Poll: Only 12% of Americans support the Senate health care plan

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Just 12% of Americans support the Senate Republican health care plan, a new USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds, amid a roiling debate over whether the GOP will deliver on its signature promise to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act.

In the survey, taken Saturday through Tuesday, a 53% majority say Congress should either leave the law known as Obamacare alone or work to fix its problems while keeping its framework intact.

But the dilemma for the GOP is this: Eight in 10 Republicans support repeal, and close to a third say the law should be repealed even if a replacement health care plan isn't ready yet. Just 11% of independents and 2% of Democrats feel that way.

The divide between the demands of the GOP base and the skepticism of the broader electorate helps explain why Senate Republican leaders have been forced to delay a vote as they scramble for the 50 votes needed to pass a measure.


So, 53% say either leave Obamacare alone or fix it...
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3950 on: June 29, 2017, 01:09:15 am »

And this just in from breitbart.com

NBC’s Chuck Todd Defends CNN — Calls Trump Admin’s War on the Press ‘a War on the Truth’


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Wednesday on MSNBC’s “MTP Daily,” host Chuck Todd defended CNN after they retracted a report on Russia and three staffers resigned.

Todd said the White House’s “war on the media” is a “war on the truth.”

Partial transcript as follows:

TODD Welcome back. Tonight—well, not just tonight—but I’m obsessed with the White House’s war on the press and on media. Let’s be clear about this, that war is nothing less than a war on the truth. Do we get it right all the time? Nope, we don’t. And when we don’t, we run a correction, and in some cases, people lose their jobs. That’s what just happened at CNN. CNN took responsibility for its mistakes. At this network, we’ve done it quite a few times publicly as well. But because we try to get it right. We take what we do seriously, because trust, viewers and readers’ trust is all we have, and without that we’re nothing. We all know we get fired for not telling the truth. And of course that’s the point, isn’t it? Of course, the White House attacks, delegitimizes the media to create running room for its version of events. It’s as old as media itself. The White House is not above using anonymous sources to criticize the use of anonymous sources. Nor to promote what it admits could be a lie to call others liars. Here’s Sarah Huckabee Sanders attacking CNN in an unbelievable way. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUCKABEE SANDERS: There’s a video circulating now, whether it’s accurate or not, I don’t know. But I would encourage everybody in this room, and frankly everybody across the country, to take a look at it. I think if it is accurate, I think it’s a disgrace to all of the media, to all of journalism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: Excuse me? You got that? I don’t know whether it’s accurate or not, but go take a look at it because it disgraces you? Seriously? And that’s been this White House’s M.O. Pedal a false story to claim the media is telling false stories. Sarah Huckabee Sanders was just a bit more honest apparently about the White House’s dishonesty. So no, Mr. President, no, White House press shop, the media is not the enemy of the people. We’re just here to find, as Carl Bernstein put it so well, the best obtainable version of the truth. It can hurt you, it can hurt us and, yes, even you, Mr. President.

Nice of breitbart.com to post that!
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3951 on: June 29, 2017, 01:23:52 am »

Uhh Ooo...

Trump Fails To Reach Beyond Base As Independents' Disapproval Grows

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President Trump's support among independent voters has eroded since he took office. Though he still clings to a loyal base of supporters, his overall disapproval among Americans has reached record highs, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

Link directly to chart of results

Just 37 percent of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing just over five months into his tenure, while 51 percent disapprove. Forty percent of those polled strongly disapprove of Trump's performance, twice the 20 percent who strongly approved.

The most pronounced swing seen in the poll was among independents. Over the past four months, their approval of the president has dissipated. In February, 40 percent of independents said they approved of the job Trump was doing, with 51 percent disapproving. Four months later in June, just 31 percent say they approve of the president with 59 percent of independents disapproving — a 17-point net-negative drop.

Despite almost full employment nationwide, independents are particularly dissatisfied with Trump on the economy. That's likely driving much of their overall disapproval. Just 31 percent of independents say they have confidence in Trump's ability to improve the U.S. economy, while 49 percent doubt he can do so. Just three months ago, 44 percent thought Trump could turn around the economy, while 38 percent didn't — a whiplash-worthy 24-point swing.

Lee Miringoff, the director of the Marist College Institute for Public Opinion, said the scope of the shift over the past few months among independents should cause "alarm bells to go off" at the White House.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3952 on: June 29, 2017, 01:29:27 am »

Trump's Company Gets Millions So Toronto Hotel Can Erase Brand



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Donald Trump’s business will be paid millions of dollars to release the owner of a Toronto hotel complex from using his name.

JCF Capital ULC, the closely held U.S. firm that owns the Trump International Hotel & Tower in the city’s downtown business district, reached a buyout deal to exit the contracts with the Trump Organization’s hotel unit, the companies said Tuesday in a statement. While no breakup fee was disclosed, the amount was at least $6 million, according to a person with knowledge of the matter. Signage may be removed from the 65-story tower as soon as Aug. 1, said the person, who asked not to be identified discussing confidential details.

The hotel will likely be operated under Marriott International Inc.’s St. Regis brand, people familiar with the plan said earlier this month.

The agreement to remove the the U.S. president’s brand marks the first step toward revamping the property, which has faced a history of construction delays and lawsuits. Most recently, it’s been a site for protests against the Trump’s comments disparaging women, Mexicans and Muslims, even though his company has no ownership stake in the property.

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James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3953 on: June 29, 2017, 10:40:35 am »

"Proletarians of all countries, unite!" - Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels

"We proclaim ourselves, as indeed we are, the defenders of freedom, wherever it continues to exist in the world, but we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. The actions of the junior Senator from Wisconsin have caused alarm and dismay amongst our allies abroad, and given considerable comfort to our enemies. And whose fault is that? Not really his. He didn't create this situation of fear; he merely exploited it — and rather successfully. Cassius was right. " 'The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.' "

- Edward Murrow, on Joe McCarthy
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3954 on: June 29, 2017, 10:41:07 am »

Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3955 on: June 29, 2017, 10:46:32 am »

Probably not. I don't think that Obama has as much to "compensate for" as Trump does.  ;D
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3956 on: June 29, 2017, 10:55:25 am »

"We proclaim ourselves, as indeed we are, the defenders of freedom, wherever it continues to exist in the world, but we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. The actions of the junior Senator from Wisconsin have caused alarm and dismay amongst our allies abroad, and given considerable comfort to our enemies. And whose fault is that? Not really his. He didn't create this situation of fear; he merely exploited it — and rather successfully. Cassius was right. " 'The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.' "

- Edward Murrow, on Joe McCarthy
McCarthy, although often wrong in the particulars, was closer to the truth about Communists in our government then the left will ever admit.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1996/04/14/was-mccarthy-right-about-the-left/a0dc6726-e2fd-4a31-bcdd-5f352acbf5de/?utm_term=.d27ae809cf59

The casual way many Americans today think that Communism is okay, is quite disturbing.  They know little about what the Soviet Union was about.  They can't seem to see beyond our borders to Cuba, Venezuela, China and North Korea.   Sanders, a near Marxist if not a Communist in his outlook, would never have gotten the support he did thirty years ago.

Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3957 on: June 29, 2017, 10:55:32 am »

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/29/trump-attacks-psycho-joe-scarborough-crazy-mike-brzezinski-in-twitter-tear.html

Trump Tweet

Quote
“I heard poorly rated @Morning_Joe speaks badly of me (don’t watch anymore). Then how come low I.Q. Crazy Mika, along with Psycho Joe, came to Mar-a-Lago 3 nights in a row around New Year’s Eve, and insisted on joining me. She was bleeding badly from a face-lift. I said no!”

This is how a President acts?

I did like Senator Graham's reply  ]"Mr. President, your tweet was beneath the office and represents what is wrong with American politics, not the greatness of America," Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican, tweeted.

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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3958 on: June 29, 2017, 11:08:23 am »

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/29/trump-attacks-psycho-joe-scarborough-crazy-mike-brzezinski-in-twitter-tear.html

Trump Tweet

This is how a President acts?

I did like Senator Graham's reply  ]"Mr. President, your tweet was beneath the office and represents what is wrong with American politics, not the greatness of America," Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican, tweeted.


As long as he picks another justice like Gorsuch, he can say whatever he wants. 

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3959 on: June 29, 2017, 11:14:20 am »

McCarthy, although often wrong in the particulars, was closer to the truth about Communists in our government then the left will ever admit.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1996/04/14/was-mccarthy-right-about-the-left/a0dc6726-e2fd-4a31-bcdd-5f352acbf5de/?utm_term=.d27ae809cf59

The casual way many Americans today think that Communism is okay, is quite disturbing.  They know little about what the Soviet Union was about.  They can't seem to see beyond our borders to Cuba, Venezuela, China and North Korea.   Sanders, a near Marxist if not a Communist in his outlook, would never have gotten the support he did thirty years ago.

1) This is a fascinating attitude coming from someone who casually blows off the impact of tens of millions of dollars in financial ties between ex-KGB Soviets and top-level strategists in the Trump campaign...
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