Trump II

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Bill Maher on Georgia election result: "Democrats are so lame the Russians are like, ‘We were going to hack this election but why bother'”

[Peter McLennan]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

Go ahead. Click on it.  You know you want to.

[Alan Klein]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

Go ahead. Click on it.  You know you want to.

Some of it is Trump's hyperbole and sales pitch.  That's how he talks after being a salesman all his life.  But there are very many things that were taken out of context or misinterpreted by a media that just cherry picks his words out of context to deliberately make him look bad. People understood what he means unless you don't want to understand what he means. Here are just a couple of examples.

Your article stated: Feb. 24 “Obamacare covers very few people — and remember, deduct from the number all of the people that had great health care that they loved that was taken away from them — it was taken away from them.” (Obamacare increased coverage by a net of about 20 million.)
Trump is first referring to people who had coverage they liked but which they lost when insurance companies pulled out or otherwise they had to cancel their plans because prices went up,  He wasn't referring to people who had no insurance to begin with who got on Obamacare.  Also, Obamacare itself does cover very few people.  Around 85% of Americans still have their own insurance they pay for privately or through their employers.

Feb. 28 “And now, based on our very strong and frank discussions, they are beginning to do just that.” (NATO countries agreed to meet defense spending requirements in 2014.)  Yes, NATO countries agreed in 2014 to EVENTUALLY meet the requirements.  But you left out that they didn't have to meet it until 2024.  Trump insisted they do it sooner. And he got positive responses from them.

Feb. 27 “On one plane, on a small order of one plane, I saved $725 million. And I would say I devoted about, if I added it up, all those calls, probably about an hour. So I think that might be my highest and best use.” (Much of the price cut was already projected.)  What does much mean?  It means not all savings so he got more saving.  Also, projected doesn't mean anything.  Who projected what and did the manufacturers agreed to it?  He got their agreement.

[Alan Klein]

So it was Obama who dropped the Russian meddling ball.  He choked.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/23/politics/vladmir-putin-russia-election/index.html

It seems that President Obama failed in his duties and did little figuring he could hide it and it would go away. Then when Clinton took over, she could continue to do nothing. Of course when the musical chairs music stopped and Trump became president by mistake, Obama was a chair to short and wound up holding the ugly cupie doll. Of course, now that the truth has come out, the Democrats are blaming Trump for collusion, obstruction of justice, and a sundry misdeeds. With misfits like we have, the Russians really don't have to do too much to really confuse us. 

[Schewe]

DOES EVERYTHING THAT DONALD TRUMP TOUCHES DIE?

Months after talking up Carrier, Ford, and Boeing, all three companies are cutting jobs.

Even before Donald Trump was sworn in to office, he began declaring victories on behalf of the American worker. The bizarre public relations campaign began in November, at the Carrier plant in Indianapolis, where he announced that his Art of the Deal-style negotiating skills had prevented 1,100 jobs from being sent to Mexico. In January, after Ford canceled plans to build a plant in Mexico, he tweeted, “This is just the beginning—much more to follow.” Weeks later, he delivered a speech in front of a South Carolina Boeing plant, during which he managed to make a sexist joke about how airplanes, unlike women, can still look good at the ripe old age of 30, and boasted, “My focus has been all about jobs, and jobs is one of the primary reasons I’m standing here today as your president, and I will never, ever disappoint you.” Seven, five, and a mere four months later, how are things working out at those companies? Let’s take a look!

Carrier, CNBC reported this week, will be laying off 600 employees over the next five months. Ford announced on Tuesday that it would be producing its Focus line in China. And Boeing, 16 weeks after Trump stood in front of a Boeing Dreamliner and declared himself the savior of the Working Man, confirmed Friday that it would be cutting 200 jobs at that very South Carolina plant.

Of course, it’s hardly fair to blame Trump for global, cyclical, and secular economic trends that are largely beyond his control. But then, it was hardly fair for Trump to try to take credit for every alleged bit of good job news, either. And hey, we’re willing to give Trump a pass on Carrier, Ford, and Boeing, so long as he can admit that all of his previous bogus “JOBS” announcements were fake news, too.

[Schewe]

Well, I guess you get what you pay for...

The Kremlin's Election Meddling Is Paying Off


Donald Trump speaks on the phone with Vladimir Putin in late January from the Oval Office.  Andrew Harnik / AP

The president’s policies in office have aligned almost perfectly with Vladimir Putin’s goals.

Fifty-four years ago this month, former President John F. Kennedy delivered the “Strategy of Peace,” a powerful address that captured America’s indispensable leadership at the height of the Cold War. Kennedy knew that our country could not guard against the Soviet Union alone, for he believed that “genuine peace must be the product of many nations, the sum of many acts.”

Incredibly, the man who now leads the United States seems to find himself locked in an alarming and perilous embrace with the Russian government. These ties threaten to weaken a system of alliances that have held Russia—and countless other threats to the international community—at bay since the conclusion of the Second World War.

In his Senate testimony two weeks ago, former FBI Director James Comey affirmed a disturbing suspicion: that Donald Trump first undermined Comey, by leaning on him to drop his investigation of former National Security-Adviser Michael Flynn, and then removed him from his post. Since then, events have escalated at a dizzying pace: Trump accused Comey of lying under oath about their interactions earlier this year, even as he cheered Comey’s public assertion that the president wasn’t under FBI investigation. Soon, reports emerged that Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating obstruction-of-justice allegations against the president—revelations Trump was none too happy about. And all the while, rumors have continued to swirl that Trump may fire both Mueller and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who’s overseeing the special counsel inquiry.

But Trump’s reckless handling of these events should not distract from a startling reality: As the president faces accusations of colluding with the Russians during last year’s campaign, his policies in office have aligned almost perfectly with the Kremlin’s goals. If Moscow wanted its interference in America’s election to yield dividends, it could hardly have hoped for more.

[Schewe]

So it was Obama who dropped the Russian meddling ball.  He choked.

There may be another point of view...

Obama Did What He Had to Do

His cautious response to Russian interference protected our democracy.

Did President Obama blow the 2016 election? Should he have spoken up sooner and louder about Russia’s interference? That’s what many Democrats are wondering, particularly after reading the Washington Post’s latest investigative report on Obama’s reticent response to the Russian attack. A former official tells the Post that after the election, Obama’s aides, “mortified” by Donald Trump’s victory, thought to themselves: “Wow, did we mishandle this.”

There’s plenty to second-guess in Obama’s management of this episode. But the idea that he failed because Trump won is wrong. Obama’s job wasn’t to prevent the election of a particular person, even one as awful as Trump. Obama’s job was to preserve the country. That meant protecting the integrity of our elections and public faith in them, which he did, to the extent possible after Russia had already hacked into the Democratic National Committee and spread misinformation.

The next task—exposing the full extent of Russia’s interference, punishing it, and deterring future attacks—is up to Trump.
If he fails, the responsibility to hold him accountable falls to Congress.
And if Congress fails, the job of electing a new, more patriotic legislature falls to voters.

So far, there is little indication that Trump cares about protecting future elections...he seems satisfied to blame it all on Obama :~(

[Alan Klein]

There may be another point of view...

Obama Did What He Had to Do

So far, there is little indication that Trump cares about protecting future elections...he seems satisfied to blame it all on Obama :~(

So after months and months of making Trump a victim by accusing him falsely of collusion, you now blame the victim for not "protecting future elections" when Obama was the culprit who knew about it all and did nothing when he could have done something.  Yet,  you still look for a way to blame Trump for the former president's dereliction.   

[Schewe]

So after months and months of making Trump a victim by accusing him falsely of collusion

Care to point to any posts where I accused Trump of collusion?

Pretty sure I asked you this same question before...pretty sure you didn't offer any proof before.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Some of it is Trump's hyperbole and sales pitch.  That's how he talks after being a salesman all his life.  But there are very many things that were taken out of context or misinterpreted by a media that just cherry picks his words out of context to deliberately make him look bad. People understood what he means unless you don't want to understand what he means...

+1

Not a single lie there.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Care to point to any posts where I accused Trump of collusion?...

You surely post and quote many articles that do just that.

[Schewe]

You surely post and quote many articles that do just that.

Point to even one...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Point to even one...

Post #3885 above:

As the president faces accusations of colluding with the Russians during last year’s campaign,

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Post #3885 above:

Surely Slobodan, you cannot hold Jeff responsible for what someone else ('The Atlantic' in this case) writes?
You do understand that that's a literal quote from their article, don't you?

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

Surely Slobodan, you cannot hold Jeff responsible for what someone else ('The Atlantic' in this case) writes?
You do understand that that's a literal quote from their article, don't you?

Cheers,
Bart

I appreciated that Slobodan defended my point mentioning the articles.  Thanks.

But come on Bart, after all these pages, you don't think that Jeff has not been pushing the idea that Trump colluded with the Russians?  It's not just one article, but article after article stating how it was Trump, it was his son-in-law, it was Flynn, it was his administration, etc.  His winks and nods at Democratic accusations of collusion adds to his position.  You know, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well... 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I appreciated that Slobodan defended my point mentioning the articles.  Thanks.

But come on Bart, after all these pages, you don't think that Jeff has not been pushing the idea that Trump colluded with the Russians?

Actually, I don't think Jeff has said to believe that, and vaguely remember him saying as much. But we cannot say with certainty that Trump didn't collude either, until the investigations come to a conclusion. The investigations are looking into collusion by campaign staff members, and we'll have to see what surfaces.

You know, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well...

Careful, people might start believing that Trump did collude, tape, etc. 

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Surely Slobodan, you cannot hold Jeff responsible for what someone else ('The Atlantic' in this case) writes?
You do understand that that's a literal quote from their article, don't you?...

You do understand the point I was making, don't you? Jeff did.

I said "You surely post and quote many articles that do just that."

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... But we cannot say with certainty that Trump didn't collude either, until the investigations come to a conclusion...

We are also waiting with a bated breath for the results of an investigation that unicorns do not exist. You know, we can not say with certainty they don't, until the investigation is done.

[Alan Klein]

Wow...what a week! But it ain't over–we still have the Sunday shows to get through. In the meantime just in case somebody still believes Trump when he says This Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should've won., well here's Politifact to the rescue ~)

Donald Trump's Pants on Fire claim Russia story 'made-up' by Democrats


During a May 11 interview with NBC’s Lester Holt, President Donald Trump said he had made the decision to fire FBI Director James Comey prior to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein’s recommendation. (Yahoo)


Sources:
NBC News, Interview with Donald Trump, May 11, 2017

Office of Director of National Intelligence, Background to "Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections": The Analytic Process and Cyber Incident Attribution, Jan. 6, 2017

You can always tell when Trump is lying...his lips move.

Here's an article and Jeff's comments on collusion. Quote from above:
"In the meantime just in case somebody still believes Trump when he says This Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should've won., well here's Politifact to the rescue ~)"

I guess by rescue, Jeff means he agrees with the article.

[Alan Klein]

We are also waiting with a bated breath for the results of an investigation that unicorns do not exist. You know, we can not say with certainty they don't, until the investigation is done.

Actually, there's more evidence that unicorns do exist.