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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918507 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3260 on: June 05, 2017, 06:10:56 pm »

It looks like the travel ban is going to the Supreme Court.  Leaving aside whether you think the ban is appropriate or not, the constitutional question is very interesting.  I believe the constitutional issue here has nothing to do with the ban itself.  The main question is whether the President and the Congress as well have the right to free speech and open debate?  Shutting it down, as would a decision against his executive order if it is constitutional how it is written, would hurt the legislative process and decision making by any president.  Things should be discussed in all areas even in areas that would or could be unconstitutional if ordered.   However, as long as the final bill meets constitutional standards, it should be OK.  If the president than executes it illegally beyond what it allows, he then should be challenged in court and the court should stop him. 

It's really the same issue in congress.  Someone could challenge a new law they wrote on the basis that some of the senators advocated unconstitutional ideas during the debate prior to writing the law.  A ruling against the ban order would silence debate, free speech and the whole democratic process in Congress as well. 

What are your thoughts?

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3261 on: June 05, 2017, 06:19:27 pm »

That may well be true, but why does Trump blame the senate for "obstruction" if there is nothing to obstruct because he doesn't nominate candidates. It's just another example of trying to gain popularity among supporters by a blame game vs. rollling up your sleeves and start governing the country

Why? Because Trumpt is a lying sack of excriment (is that better than shyte?)!!!
Then there's this...

Media war amps up: AP fact-check says Trump can't be trusted

Seems Trump is the sourse of #FakeNews!

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3262 on: June 05, 2017, 06:23:27 pm »

Top U.S. diplomat in China quits over Trump climate policy
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-diplomacy-idUSKBN18W2NT

"David Rank, the chargé d'affaires of the U.S. Embassy in Beijing, has left the State Department over the Trump administration's decision to quit the 2015 Paris agreement to fight climate change, a senior U.S. official said on Monday.

A State Department spokeswoman confirmed Rank's departure, but said she was unable to verify Twitter posts that said he resigned as he felt unable to deliver a formal notification to China of the U.S. decision last week to quit the agreement.

"He has retired from the foreign service," said Anna Richey-Allen, a spokeswoman for the department's East Asia Bureau. "Mr Rank has made a personal decision. We appreciate his years of dedicated service to the State Department."

Iowa Governor Terry Branstad, President Donald Trump's pick as the next U.S. ambassador to Beijing, is expected to take up the post later this month.

A tweet from China expert John Pomfret quoted unnamed sources as saying that Rank had resigned as he could not support Trump's decision last week to withdraw from the Paris agreement."


Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3263 on: June 05, 2017, 06:24:12 pm »

The majority of US Ambassadors are career foreign service people and are commonly found in the less important countries (a college classmate of mine was Ambassador to Yemen during a particularly troubling time about 18 years ago).  Trump has 50 slots to fill and those are mainly the big Euro and South American countries and these tend to be patronage appointments.  Those are the countries where the existing ambassadors resigned when the administration changed in January.
Then maybe it's better that the ambassadors are not replace with patronage people.  The Chargé d'Affaires are better at the job and know the country better.  Plus, there may not be enough patronage people around.  Trump ran pretty much on his own with little help from the Republican Party.  He never had been in elected office before either.  So, other presidents in the past owed a lot of favors and rewarded the people providing them with ambassadorships.  Trump doesn't owe as many favors. 

Obama gave the ambassadorship to Japan to Caroline Kennedy, President Kennedy's daughter.  I nice lady, I'm sure.  Cute when she was a little girl.  But what did she know about the country?  How about me.  I'm retired.  I have some spare time.  I'm available for Japan too.  I did spend two years there as an Air Force airman.  That should count for something.  Plus I'm a fellow New Yorker. I hope Trump is reading.   :)

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3264 on: June 05, 2017, 06:29:56 pm »

Joe, it's not the words or expression that I find obscene, it's the type of reaction that I qualify as such. Several people have pointed out many times in this thread that Alan's ideas of "not paying up" is fake news and not based on any existing agreement. He's fully entitled to his beliefs that the agreements are crap but don't blame the other countries for that (like Trump and the Trump suppporters are doing). That is childish and counterproductive and turns friends into people who don't care for you anymore. Just cut the silly victim-playing "everybody is taking advantage of us", it's not true and not helping you, but instead face up to challanges with dignity instead of a populist blame game.
Fake news is in the eye of the beholder.  It depends who's ox is being gored.  It's also like when we critique a photo.  To some, it's better than sliced bread.  To others, it's plain crap. 

Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3265 on: June 05, 2017, 07:55:02 pm »

Fake news is in the eye of the beholder.

Absolutely 100% dead wrong.  Lies are lies.

And we all know who's doing the lying.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3266 on: June 05, 2017, 09:26:08 pm »

... if the perpetrators might call themselves Muslims (QED), are all Muslims therefore terrorists?...

Since you are apparently so fond of logic, what you just did above is known as a non-sequitur fallacy. Shame, I was hoping you would know better.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3267 on: June 05, 2017, 09:33:37 pm »

Top U.S. diplomat in China quits over Trump climate policy
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-diplomacy-idUSKBN18W2NT

"David Rank, the chargé d'affaires of the U.S. Embassy in Beijing, has left the State Department over the Trump administration's decision to quit the 2015 Paris agreement to fight climate change, a senior U.S. official said on Monday.

A State Department spokeswoman confirmed Rank's departure, but said she was unable to verify Twitter posts that said he resigned as he felt unable to deliver a formal notification to China of the U.S. decision last week to quit the agreement.

"He has retired from the foreign service," said Anna Richey-Allen, a spokeswoman for the department's East Asia Bureau. "Mr Rank has made a personal decision. We appreciate his years of dedicated service to the State Department."

Iowa Governor Terry Branstad, President Donald Trump's pick as the next U.S. ambassador to Beijing, is expected to take up the post later this month.

A tweet from China expert John Pomfret quoted unnamed sources as saying that Rank had resigned as he could not support Trump's decision last week to withdraw from the Paris agreement."


Cheers,
Bart
So he quit.  Certainly he's entitled to do that.  But what's your point?  He doesn't make policy.  He's just a bureaucrat.  He wasn't elected. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3268 on: June 05, 2017, 09:36:45 pm »

Since you are apparently so fond of logic, what you just did above is known as a non-sequitur fallacy. Shame, I was hoping you would know better.


I thought it had something to do with Venn diagrams.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3269 on: June 06, 2017, 12:46:17 am »

So, about that speech Trump gave to NATO...

Trump National Security Team Blindsided by NATO Speech

Quote
They thought the president would commit to the principle of collective defense. They were wrong.

When President Donald Trump addressed NATO leaders during his debut overseas trip little more than a week ago, he surprised and disappointed European allies who hoped—and expected—he would use his speech to explicitly reaffirm America’s commitment to mutual defense of the alliance’s members, a one-for-all, all-for-one provision that looks increasingly urgent as Eastern European members worry about the threat from a resurgent Russia on their borders.

That part of the Trump visit is known.

What’s not is that the president also disappointed—and surprised—his own top national security officials by failing to include the language reaffirming the so-called Article 5 provision in his speech. National security adviser H.R. McMaster, Defense Secretary James Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson all supported Trump doing so and had worked in the weeks leading up to the trip to make sure it was included in the speech, according to five sources familiar with the episode. They thought it was, and a White House aide even told The New York Times the day before the line was definitely included.

It was not until the next day, Thursday, May 25, when Trump started talking at an opening ceremony for NATO’s new Brussels headquarters, that the president’s national security team realized their boss had made a decision with major consequences—without consulting or even informing them in advance of the change.

“They had the right speech and it was cleared through McMaster,” said a source briefed by National Security Council officials in the immediate aftermath of the NATO meeting. “As late as that same morning, it was the right one.”

Added a senior White House official, “There was a fully coordinated other speech everybody else had worked on”—and it wasn’t the one Trump gave. “They didn’t know it had been removed,” said a third source of the Trump national security officials on hand for the ceremony. “It was only upon delivery.”

The president appears to have deleted it himself, according to one version making the rounds inside the government, reflecting his personal skepticism about NATO and insistence on lecturing NATO allies about spending more on defense rather than offering reassurances of any sort; another version relayed to others by several White House aides is that Trump’s nationalist chief strategist Steve Bannon and policy aide Stephen Miller played a role in the deletion.

So,  Mattis, McMaster and Tillerson thought Trump was going to deliver one speech and without warning or deliberation Trump decides to deliver a different one. Was it Trump or Miller or Bannon or all 3 that decided to stick a finger in the eye of NATO?

So, the Defense, the NSC and the State department heads were just chopped off at the knees...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3270 on: June 06, 2017, 12:59:46 am »

...

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3271 on: June 06, 2017, 01:00:16 am »

So, about that speech Trump gave to NATO...

Trump National Security Team Blindsided by NATO Speech

So,  Mattis, McMaster and Tillerson thought Trump was going to deliver one speech and without warning or deliberation Trump decides to deliver a different one. Was it Trump or Miller or Bannon or all 3 that decided to stick a finger in the eye of NATO?

So, the Defense, the NSC and the State department heads were just chopped off at the knees...
How could Trump get the Europeans to pay the 2% if he promised the NATO countries he would support Article 5 before they paid or agreed to a firm payment schedule?  The countries would never raise their defense expenditures.  It would be like trying to raise the price of your product after the buyer agree to your original selling price.    Mattis and McMaster should load the guns and let Trump deal with the money.  Tillerson, the ex-CEO of Exxon, should have known better you don't agree to a deal if the terms aren't settled yet. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3272 on: June 06, 2017, 01:17:33 am »

Hysteria seems to be modus operandi of the loony left these days. For instance, about NATO collective defense:

Quote
Article 5 says that the response may include armed force, but it does not mandate it. All that NATO actually promises is to take “such action as it deems necessary” to restore and maintain security. That could be anything from nuclear war to a stiff diplomatic protest.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/03/economist-explains-6

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3273 on: June 06, 2017, 01:21:33 am »

Sorry, didn't see this when it came out...typical Trump :~(
The headline is delicious irony don't ya think?

The Coat of Arms Said ‘Integrity.’ Now It Says ‘Trump.’


The crest, right, that President Trump displays at his American properties is a coat of arms, left, that British authorities granted to another family.

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LONDON — At the Trump National Golf Club outside Washington, which hosted the Senior P.G.A. Championship this weekend, the president’s coat of arms is everywhere — the sign out front, the pro shop, even the exercise room.

The regal emblem, used at President Trump’s golf courses across the United States, sports three lions and two chevrons on a shield, below a gloved hand gripping an arrow.

A different coat of arms flies over Mr. Trump’s two golf resorts in Scotland. The lions on the shield have been replaced by a two-headed eagle, an image the company has said represents the “dual nature and nationality” of Mr. Trump’s Scottish and German roots.



But this emblem was not just about honoring his heritage.

The British are known to matters of heraldry seriously, and Mr. Trump’s American coat of arms belongs to another family. It was granted by British authorities in 1939 to Joseph Edward Davies, the third husband of Marjorie Merriweather Post, the socialite who built the Mar-a-Lago resort that is now Mr. Trump’s cherished getaway.

In the United States, the Trump Organization took Mr. Davies’s coat of arms for its own, making one small adjustment — replacing the word “Integritas,” Latin for integrity, with “Trump.”

--snip--

Mr. Trump tried to bring the American version to Scotland a decade ago.

He used the emblem on promotional materials when he started marketing a new golf course development in Aberdeenshire, on Scotland’s east coast. But the materials ran afoul of the coat-of-arms authorities in Scotland — a uniquely British problem.

Mr. Trump hadn’t registered the emblem under the Lyon King of Arms Act passed by the Scottish Parliament in 1672. The Court of the Lord Lyon has jurisdiction over the use and misuse of coats of arms.

Back then, Mr. Trump also tried to trademark the emblem in Britain. But the application was rejected by the trademark office.

So typically Trump...but you know, ya just can't substitute integrity with Trump :~)
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3274 on: June 06, 2017, 01:37:48 am »

Hysteria seems to be modus operandi of the loony left these days. For instance, about NATO collective defense:

AFTER THE ATTACKS: THE ALLIANCE; For First Time, NATO Invokes Joint Defense Pact With U.S.

Quote
By SUZANNE DALEY SEPT. 13, 2001

NATO invoked a mutual defense clause in its founding treaty for the first time today, strongly suggesting that the United States would have the support of the allies if it takes military action against those responsible for attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

A NATO statement issued after a meeting of ambassadors to the 19-member alliance said, ''If it is determined that this attack was directed from abroad against the United States, it shall be regarded as an action covered by Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.''

Article 5, the cornerstone of the alliance, says ''an armed attack'' against any of the allies in Europe or North America ''shall be considered an attack against them all.''

It commits NATO members to take the necessary measures, including the use of force, to restore security.

The statement amounted to a powerful expression of European solidarity with the United States after a period in which trans-Atlantic relations have been strained by tensions over the Bush administration's policies in areas ranging from missile defense to the environment.

You remember 9/11?

This is what NATO said on 9/11:

Quote
Statement by the North Atlantic Council

The North Atlantic Council met tonight to express its solidarity with the United States of America at this moment of great tragedy and mourning. Our deepest sympathy lies with the victims, their families and all Americans. The NATO nations unanimously condemn these barbaric acts committed against a NATO member state. The mindless slaughter of so many innocent civilians is an unacceptable act of violence without precedent in the modern era. It underscores the urgency of intensifying the battle against terrorism, a battle that the NATO countries - indeed all civilised nations - must win. All Allies stand united in their determination to combat this scourge.

At this critical moment, the United States can rely on its 18 Allies in North America and Europe for assistance and support. NATO solidarity remains the essence of our Alliance. Our message to the people of the United States is that we are with you. Our message to those who perpetrated these unspeakable crimes is equally clear: you will not get away with it.

What did Trump first Tweet about the attack in London?

Quote
Donald J. Trump ‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

We need to be smart, vigilant and tough. We need the courts to give us back our rights. We need the Travel Ban as an extra level of safety!

RETWEETS 53,443   LIKES 175,740
4:17 PM - 3 Jun 2017

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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3275 on: June 06, 2017, 03:34:15 am »

Fake news is in the eye of the beholder.  It depends who's ox is being gored.  It's also like when we critique a photo.  To some, it's better than sliced bread.  To others, it's plain crap.
Ridiculous, lies are lies.
It has nothing to do with opinions on photographs or other art.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3276 on: June 06, 2017, 07:26:17 am »

...You remember 9/11? ...

Who are you and what did you do to Rudy Giuliani?  ;)

Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3277 on: June 06, 2017, 08:38:01 am »

Bridges Not Walls.

Pathetic, appalling, sophmoric and ugly. You are a small man, Slobodan.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3278 on: June 06, 2017, 09:24:17 am »

Ridiculous, lies are lies.
It has nothing to do with opinions on photographs or other art.
I was commenting on liberal bias in the news that is fake news.  Liberals think it's the truth, but it isn't.  It's opinion and often just plain lies.

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3279 on: June 06, 2017, 09:35:18 am »

I was commenting on liberal bias in the news that is fake news.  Liberals think it's the truth, but it isn't.  It's opinion and often just plain lies.
And I was commenting on the conservative fake news. Conservatives think it's the truth, but it isn't. It's mostly plain lies.
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pieter, aka pegelli
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