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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 918247 times)

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3220 on: June 05, 2017, 03:37:27 pm »

You did a "gotcha" to me as everyone does to Trump. 
And fully deserved, if you can't make your arguments correctly and blabber out nonsence on agreements that only exist in your mind you call it all off on yourself. 

You know what I'm talking about.  It's the 2% for military expenses.  We should start pulling out American troops until the deadbeat countries start paying more for their militaries.
Of course I know what you're talking about, I'm not stupid. There's no deadbeat countries, that's one of those imaginary agreements that only exist in your mind because it's put in there by fake alt-right news. If Trump wants to reduce military expenditure over here  that's fine by me, but he's not really interested in that. The US is getting out as much or more then they put in. If he really was worried about this he would behave completely differently.
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pieter, aka pegelli

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3221 on: June 05, 2017, 03:41:25 pm »

you mean till they actually start paying USA for the services provided... aggression in Libya was the prime example how NATO sans USA can't even do anything against a decrepit military force w/o USA spending money to do the job ...
And look at the mess created there (and in Iraq). The collective Western World should have stayed out there. That money was not spent wisely and created ISIS.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3222 on: June 05, 2017, 03:47:20 pm »

Since you're an American, I'll add another point.  You should be angry that we are subsidizing European nations, rich nations, who could afford to pay more that centers on mainly defending them.

Since I'm an American I'm sick and tired of the US government and the military industrial complex wasting so much money build weapons for wars we'll really never fight and have ignored the greatest battlefield where we are already losing and that's cyber warfare.

As it relates to getting more money for NATO and spending less by the US, yes, lets...but let's do it in a way that doesn't try to shame and humiliate but enter into serious and diplomatic discussions.

Trump isn't running for president anymore. When he gives speeches at NATO designed to denigrate NATO and make him look like a hard ass to impress his followers, he's doing a piss poor job of leading America and getting the rest of NATO to the negotiating table. He ain't trying to sell a luxury condo or golf course...he's supposed to be trying to get our allies to do more not laugh behind his back at his inept and feeble attempts at diplomacy.

But my point still stand, you would do better to argue your points about NATO from a position of knowledge instead of ignorance. Otherwise you run the risk of sounding and acting like Trump (and that's not a good thing).
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3223 on: June 05, 2017, 03:49:55 pm »

... If Trump wants to reduce military expenditure over here  that's fine by me, but he's not really interested in that. The US is getting out as much or more then they put in. If he really was worried about this he would behave completely differently.


I think Secretary of War Mattis doesn't care what it costs.  He an old military man, brilliant, tough, but as a long time government official, he cares less what it costs.  Not his department.  Trump, on the other hand, being a businessman, and cheap as well, is always looking at the bottom line.  That might be the only place he looks.  He's a guy who takes advantage and does not like being taken advantage of in return.  I think his mother was Scottish so he's got that frugal blood in him. 

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3224 on: June 05, 2017, 03:55:49 pm »

#NotFakeNews (too bad huh?)

President Trump Just Held a Signing. He Had Nothing to Sign

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After announcing his goal to privatize the nation's Air Traffic Control System, President Donald Trump sat down at a desk on Monday and signed two documents. There was only one problem: He wasn't actually signing something that would have any tangible impact on what he had just proposed.

A White House aide told reporters Trump had signed a "a decision memo and letter transmitting legislative principles to Congress," surrounding the privatization of the Air Traffic Control system, which he had just spent the last few minutes advocating for. But in order for his goal to come to fruition, Congress would need to pass pass legislation implementing it. Before Trump gave remarks Monday, White House officials had told reporters that the President is only dictating his legislative goals of separating air traffic controls from the FAA. Congress is not required to follow through on these goals.

Ah, so it's like telling a 3yr old to write a letter to Santa knowing full well that the kid ain't gonna get squat...makes the kid feel better but won't amount to much...
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3225 on: June 05, 2017, 03:56:00 pm »

And look at the mess created there (and in Iraq). The collective Western World should have stayed out there. That money was not spent wisely and created ISIS.
That was Hillary's and Obama's fault.  Of course they're American so I have to accept responsibility for the screw-ups in Libya.  You know many conservatives and Republicans are tired of every president committing "war" without Congress approving it as required by the Constitution.  It's caused us all kinds of problems through the years.  General and President Washington was right all those years ago that we should avoid foreign entanglements.  Maybe we should pull out of NATO entirely.  Then Europe could build up their own forces and join together in the EU in a common defense without us.  What do you think about that idea?

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3226 on: June 05, 2017, 03:58:36 pm »

He's a guy who takes advantage and does not like being taken advantage of in return.  I think his mother was Scottish so he's got that frugal blood in him.
Here I agree with you Alan, and that's exactly where my problem lies. He's such a narcissist that he grossly overestimates his own contribution while on the other hand undervalues what others do for him that he's a plain disaster in international relations and he will have to work pretty hard (if he's even interested) to gain back some credibility and achieve some of the goals he set.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3227 on: June 05, 2017, 03:59:35 pm »



Same response.
-------------------------------
You did a "gotcha" to me as everyone does to Trump.

Precisely.  And the same as they did to Ms Palin, who used the term extensively.  And the same as they will continue to do to all people spew erroneous crap.

In other words, "gotchas" are perfectly valid forms of pointing out errors.  Get used to it.
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3228 on: June 05, 2017, 04:00:55 pm »

That was Hillary's and Obama's fault. 
More blame games, but since we're at it, Iraq was Bush's (and Blair's) fault.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3229 on: June 05, 2017, 04:01:50 pm »

More blame games, but since we're at it, Iraq was Bush's (and Blair's) fault.

Beat me to it.  Blaming Obama for Iraq is beyond comprehension.
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3230 on: June 05, 2017, 04:03:22 pm »

What do you think about that idea?
It will wreck the US defense industry and therefore never happen.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3231 on: June 05, 2017, 04:03:59 pm »

Yep...pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!!!

KELLYANNE CONWAY SAYS MEDIA SHOULD STOP COVERING DONALD TRUMP’S TWEETS

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President Donald Trump went on one of his infamous early-morning Twitter rants on Monday, but Kellyanne Conway doesn't want you to read all about it.

Conway, the pollster turned counselor to the president, told anchors on the Today show that the media has an "obsession with covering everything he says on Twitter and very little of what he does as president."

Maybe Twitter SHOULD delete his friggin' account!

At least he's not polluting the POTUS Twitter feed.


(hum, if I were him I would be praying too)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3232 on: June 05, 2017, 04:07:48 pm »

So, pointing out a simple, glaringly obvious, single common thread to all Islamist terrorist acts somehow makes one an alt-right etc.?

Than again, maybe i got it wrong, maybe the simple, glaringly obvious, single common thread is that they all watched YouTube?
...and fired employees sometimes take out their agressions by going back to their place of work and shooting people.  Does this mean that all employees who are fired should be automatically considered a risk?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3233 on: June 05, 2017, 04:08:34 pm »

Since I'm an American I'm sick and tired of the US government and the military industrial complex wasting so much money build weapons for wars we'll really never fight and have ignored the greatest battlefield where we are already losing and that's cyber warfare.

As it relates to getting more money for NATO and spending less by the US, yes, lets...but let's do it in a way that doesn't try to shame and humiliate but enter into serious and diplomatic discussions.

Trump isn't running for president anymore. When he gives speeches at NATO designed to denigrate NATO and make him look like a hard ass to impress his followers, he's doing a piss poor job of leading America and getting the rest of NATO to the negotiating table. He ain't trying to sell a luxury condo or golf course...he's supposed to be trying to get our allies to do more not laugh behind his back at his inept and feeble attempts at diplomacy.

But my point still stand, you would do better to argue your points about NATO from a position of knowledge instead of ignorance. Otherwise you run the risk of sounding and acting like Trump (and that's not a good thing).
Jeff, I agree with a lot of your points.  That's good.  I think we've done a terrible job with cyber security.  The Chinese have stole all of our important commercial and military secrets, things that took us decades to develop.  It's all very dangerous security wise and economically as well.  We've been asleep at the switch.  Even today, Mattis has agreed to let the Chinese navy have observers at our carrier operations with our allies.  It's bad enough they have all the blueprints for our ships and fighters.  Do we have to teach them how to operate them in war as well.  We're so stupid. 

Regarding Trump, yes he's ham-fisted.  He doesn't understand government niceties and has always been boorish. But frankly, for American government, being nice hasn't worked.  Everyone's taken advantage of us for decades.  We're like the guy you have dinner with in the restaurant who always wants to pick up the tab to prove what a great guy he is.  Meanwhile everyone else smiles, pats him on the shoulder, and then laughs behind his back.  We got to put our pride in our back pocket and start doing the right thing for ourselves.  No one else is going too.  And Trump understands this.  And he's calling everyone out on it.  Sure they don't like.   They would have preferred Clinton who would have operated in the same way as previous administrations.  At the end of the day, no one is going to care how Trump acted.  If things work out better for America, then he's done his job.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3234 on: June 05, 2017, 04:10:52 pm »

Uh ho

SUPPORT FOR DONALD TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT IS NOW HIGHER THAN HIS APPROVAL RATING

Quote
Approval @Gallup: 36%
Impeachment @Politico: 43%

Rasmussen Reports are indicating dips in support for the president's job performance, reporting that as of Monday, 54 percent of the nation disapproves of Trump’s tenure as commander in chief.

#NotMyPresident
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3235 on: June 05, 2017, 04:15:06 pm »

And Trump understands this.

Trump understands nothing...prior to becoming President he did his day job of selling his brand, hosting a reality TV show, being an asshole and playing golf. Nothing in his 70 years of living has prepared him for this and he's flailing worse and worse every day.

Wake up and smell to rotted roses...it's time to throw them out!
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mecrox

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3236 on: June 05, 2017, 04:19:12 pm »

Jeff, I agree with a lot of your points.  That's good.  I think we've done a terrible job with cyber security.  The Chinese have stole all of our important commercial and military secrets, things that took us decades to develop.  It's all very dangerous security wise and economically as well.  We've been asleep at the switch.  Even today, Mattis has agreed to let the Chinese navy have observers at our carrier operations with our allies.  It's bad enough they have all the blueprints for our ships and fighters.  Do we have to teach them how to operate them in war as well.  We're so stupid. 

Regarding Trump, yes he's ham-fisted.  He doesn't understand government niceties and has always been boorish. But frankly, for American government, being nice hasn't worked.  Everyone's taken advantage of us for decades.  We're like the guy you have dinner with in the restaurant who always wants to pick up the tab to prove what a great guy he is.  Meanwhile everyone else smiles, pats him on the shoulder, and then laughs behind his back.  We got to put our pride in our back pocket and start doing the right thing for ourselves.  No one else is going too.  And Trump understands this.  And he's calling everyone out on it.  Sure they don't like.   They would have preferred Clinton who would have operated in the same way as previous administrations.  At the end of the day, no one is going to care how Trump acted.  If things work out better for America, then he's done his job.

Can you give some examples please of "Everyone's taken advantage of us for decades", how and why, aside from NATO whose funding system has already been pointed out to you.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3237 on: June 05, 2017, 04:22:09 pm »

Trump understands nothing...prior to becoming President he did his day job of selling his brand, hosting a reality TV show, being an asshole and playing golf. Nothing in his 70 years of living has prepared him for this and he's flailing worse and worse every day.

Wake up and smell to rotted roses...it's time to throw them out!
Polls don't mean anything.  They were wrong in the election.  But that's all beside the point.  You don't impeach a president because you don't like him, his way of doing things, or his policies.  You can vote him out of office in 4 years.  That's how it works. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3238 on: June 05, 2017, 04:27:33 pm »

Can you give some examples please of "Everyone's taken advantage of us for decades", how and why, aside from NATO whose funding system has already been pointed out to you.

Wake up and read all my posts.  You're asleep at the switch regarding my comments about NATO.   

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3239 on: June 05, 2017, 04:32:11 pm »

Wake up and read all my posts.  You're asleep at the switch regarding my comments about NATO.   
Sorry, most of the points you make are a figment of the imagination of alt-right's fake news. Stop playing the poor victim and behave with the dignity that one of the largest nations in the world should have.   
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pieter, aka pegelli
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